Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (207 Viewers)

[Astute]

'She loved her job': The NHS staff who've died

Surprised how many say, ‘died at home’

Wonder if that’s replicated in society more widely?

So sad. Brings reality to what is just a number. People dying because they did a job that would make a difference. They cared about people but never got the same back.

 

---

[SkyBlueCRJ]

According to Finish scientists 3D modelling there’s a lot of merit in the general public wearing masks in public not to stop yourself catching it as such but to stop anyone who might have it spreading it. 3D simulation shows how a single cough can spread coronavirus through a grocery store

Our scientists and medical practitioners really need to provide clarity on this subject as many have previously claimed that masks will do little to help protect someone from contracting the virus. The most prominent of these being Chris Whitty, who actually went one step further and urged people not to wear them.

 

[Flying Fokker]

Gallery paintings from my Camino — Mallett ART

 

[clint van damme]

Gallery paintings from my Camino — Mallett ART

I know nothing about art but they look decent to me.

 

[shmmeee]

Our scientists and medical practitioners really need to provide clarity on this subject as many have previously claimed that masks will do little to help protect someone from contracting the virus. The most prominent of these being Chris Whitty, who actually went one step further and urged people not to wear them.

You’ve got to ask, if they don’t why do medical staff wear them, why do countries that have had epidemics wear them and why are Italy handing them out?

Even if just stopping you touching your face and as a reminder of the situation to everyone the must have some effect.

 

[PVA]

Remember when our approach was to do the complete opposite to the rest of the world and many people were defending the government saying they were doing the right thing, just because they support the Tories?

If the situation wasn't so dire the replies to this tweet would be funny.




This one probably my favourite:




Or this one




Imagine defending herd immunity and thousands of people dying unnecessarily just because you feel the need to defend your 'team ' to the hilt

 

[Astute]

You’ve got to ask, if they don’t why do medical staff wear them, why do countries that have had epidemics wear them and why are Italy handing them out?

Even if just stopping you touching your face and as a reminder of the situation to everyone the must have some effect.

But if the masks work why do they wear full face visors? I get my temperature taken before I am allowed on site at work each shift. They wear the full visors.

 

[Sick Boy]

But if the masks work why do they wear full face visors? I get my temperature taken before I am allowed on site at work each shift. They wear the full visors.

I think that they likely reduce the chances of infection but not eradicate it completely, even if it was just a 5% reduction, I would prefer to wear one, personally.
They are now mandatory here when going to the supermarket, so expect that we'll have to wear them for a while when we are eventually allowed back into the workplace.

 

[David O'Day]

I know nothing about art but they look decent to me.

Yeah they are really good

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[Astute]

And for community spirit......WTF

'Crazy' town relieves lockdown with mass mooing

 

[Astute]

I think that they likely reduce the chances of infection but not eradicate it completely, even if it was just a 5% reduction, I would prefer to wear one, personally.
They are now mandatory here when going to the supermarket, so expect that we'll have to wear them for a while when we are eventually allowed back into the workplace.

The only problem I have with them is some of those wearing them act as though they are invincible. They walk around the shops and get close to you when they shouldn't.

 

[Brylowes]

Why do some like yourself still try to deny this?

This is the problem with Labour mentality. You were not allowed to say anything about what you could see. But anyone who doesn't vote Labour because it is what they do could see it.

Corbyn. Lots of skeletons in the closet. No charisma. Never put a point across with conviction. Brexit? Lost a lot more votes than he gained by not wanting to say what he would do. Anti EU all his life. But said a few things about remaining. Should have been much more clear on the matter.

McDonnell. Lots of skeletons in the closet. Looked to be the puppet master. Long term close friend of Corbyn.

Abbott. Vilified for being thick. But I don't think anyone would say she isn't thick. Just mention the hard time she got. Ex fuckpiece of Corbyn.

Choosing people to help you should be putting the best people in place. Not thise who have been with you for over 30 years in whatever you have done.

On to policies. Free broadband for everyone. This included the rich. About 50 billion initial cost. Hundreds of millions to run each year. Billions more needed in investment.

Untold billions to be spent on nationalizing utilities and transport. Transport would be first. When I was against this I was called the usual names. Yeah let's spend lots of billions bringing back the train services. But when I said about just waiting until the contracts were over and nit pay thise untold billions out the penny dropped on most. More untold billions would have been wasted.

Labour had a chance? You don't honestly believe that do you?

The Tories were in turmoil. They ended up making an absolute clown the PM. Recipe for disaster. No decent policies. But he had one line.

We heard that most of us were supposed to be Remainers at the time of the last election. Yet get Brexit done won the election campaign for the Tories. Why was this?

You assume to much, I’m 51 and the last five years is the first time in my life we’ve had a Labour
Leadership worthy of the name, it was a real opportunity for the Country to steer away from the
Catastrophic Neo-Liberal path it’s been following for 40 years.
You’re opinions on Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott suggests you swallowed hook line and sinker
the media spun lies ‘and jumped on board the witch hunt orchestrated against them ‘by not only
The opposition ‘but also from high ranking members of their own party.
Starmer ‘don’t make me laugh ‘this Country needs radical change from top to bottom, all he’s
Going to provide is a different choice of government with exactly the same outcome.

 

[clint van damme]

You assume to much, I’m 51 and the last five years is the first time in my life we’ve had a Labour
Leadership worthy of the name, it was a real opportunity for the Country to steer away from the
Catastrophic Neo-Liberal path it’s been following for 40 years.
You’re opinions on Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott suggests you swallowed hook line and sinker
the media spun lies ‘and jumped on board the witch hunt orchestrated against them ‘by not only
The opposition ‘but also from high ranking members of their own party.
Starmer ‘don’t make me laugh ‘this Country needs radical change from top to bottom, all he’s
Going to provide is a different choice of government with exactly the same outcome.

Starmer can fuck off after this:

Labour antisemitism investigation will not be sent to equality commission

 

[clint van damme]

Remember when our approach was to do the complete opposite to the rest of the world and many people were defending the government saying they were doing the right thing, just because they support the Tories?

If the situation wasn't so dire the replies to this tweet would be funny.




This one probably my favourite:




Or this one



Imagine defending herd immunity and thousands of people dying unnecessarily just because you feel the need to defend your 'team ' to the hilt

Imagine referring back to the Empire as evidence we know how to deal with a pandemic in the 21st century. Incredible.

 

[Astute]

You assume to much, I’m 51 and the last five years is the first time in my life we’ve had a Labour
Leadership worthy of the name, it was a real opportunity for the Country to steer away from the
Catastrophic Neo-Liberal path it’s been following for 40 years.
You’re opinions on Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott suggests you swallowed hook line and sinker
the media spun lies ‘and jumped on board the witch hunt orchestrated against them ‘by not only
The opposition ‘but also from high ranking members of their own party.
Starmer ‘don’t make me laugh ‘this Country needs radical change from top to bottom, all he’s
Going to provide is a different choice of government with exactly the same outcome.

I assume? You are the one assuming not me.

You asked the questions. I answered them for you. You don't like the answers.

So come on then. Why did Labour have such a catastrophic GE when they were up against the Tories who didn't have policies and had Boris as leader? Why ask questions when you know you won't like honest opinions back?

 

[Brylowes]

Our scientists and medical practitioners really need to provide clarity on this subject as many have previously claimed that masks will do little to help protect someone from contracting the virus. The most prominent of these being Chris Whitty, who actually went one step further and urged people not to wear them.

I’ve said this before but ‘surely someone that is carrying the virus without knowing will be less likely
to pass it on if wearing a mask.
The protection gained by wearing a mask to prevent contracting the virus is a bone of contention
Between experts everywhere, you would really think that with all the research going on ‘they would
Have a definitive answer by now.

 

[skybluetony176]

I think that they likely reduce the chances of infection but not eradicate it completely, even if it was just a 5% reduction, I would prefer to wear one, personally.
They are now mandatory here when going to the supermarket, so expect that we'll have to wear them for a while when we are eventually allowed back into the workplace.

Looking at the 3D modelling by Finnish scientists I think it’s more a case of stopping you spreading it should you have it rather than stopping you catching it if you don’t. Given that the virus can have at least a 2 week incubation period before you show any symptoms masks seem a sensible approach in tackling the spread.

 

[Astute]

Starmer can fuck off after this:

Labour antisemitism investigation will not be sent to equality commission

How much of a say has Starmer had in this?


An extensive internal investigation into the way Labour handled antisemitism complaints will not be submitted to the Equality and Human Rights Commission, after an intervention by party lawyers.

Then we have alleged conversations between we don't know who making comments when we don't know what was said.

Then you have the end of the article.


Following what the report describes as a "systematic review" of all complaints received between November 2016 to February 2018, it claims investigations were initiated into only 34 of the more than 300 complaints received in relation to antisemitism.

"At least half of these warranted action, many of them in relation to very extreme forms of antisemitism, but were ignored. Almost all of these complaints were forwarded from one inbox to another, and many of them were identified as Labour members and sent to the Head of Disputes, Sam Matthews, for action", the report claims.

In a statement to Sky News responding to the leaked report, Sam Matthews said: "This latest episode comes as no surprise to me, as an effort by a disgruntled faction who are floundering in their attempts to blame others in order to distract from matters that will be investigated by the EHRC and the Courts.

"I hope Keir Starmer will stand by his commitment to undo the damage that they and their supporters have caused.


Mr Matthew continued: "The proper examination of the full evidence will show that as Head of Disputes and Acting Director, I did my level best to tackle the poison of anti-Jewish racism which was growing under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership.

"A highly selective, retrospective review of the Party's poor record, not deemed good enough for submission by the Party's own lawyers and conducted in the dying days of a Corbyn's leadership in order to justify their inaction, simply cannot be relied upon."

So how is Starmer to blame?

 

[Ian1779]

I assume? You are the one assuming not me.

You asked the questions. I answered them for you. You don't like the answers.

So come on then. Why did Labour have such a catastrophic GE when they were up against the Tories who didn't have policies and had Boris as leader? Why ask questions when you know you won't like honest opinions back?

You know why:
1.we failed to give any clarity on Brexit and should not have attempted to go against what people voted for. Boris had ‘Get Brexit done’ - it resonated, he played it perfectly and Labour gave him all the ammunition he needed.
2. Maybe we tried to flood too many policies in one go rather than trying to focus on 2/3 key ones. Trouble was a lot of them were already well received in 2017 and maybe though my we needed more new ones... a point for discussion definitely but not a direct reason for failure.
3. The leadership did have baggage which hindered them, and they allowed a certain image of them to become the ‘truth’ without directly calling it out or challenging it.
4. The anti-semitism crisis was again allowed to explode beyond what it actually was (a 0.05% issue within members) and again not challenged and called out for what it was.
5. The social media campaign of 2017 that was successful was trumped by a co-ordinated media campaign by the Tories that had been 2 years on the making.... especially on Facebook.They learnt from their mistakes and subconsciously fed a narrative into people’s mindsets... the exact people they needed to target to win.
6. Labour had the entire print, radio and TV media against them. And we didn’t challenge it well enough.

 

[Brylowes]

Why do some like yourself still try to deny this?

This is the problem with Labour mentality. You were not allowed to say anything about what you could see. But anyone who doesn't vote Labour because it is what they do could see it

This is what I meant by presume.
The way I read that ‘you are presuming that I believe Labour were utterly useless but I’m in denial.
I’m not in denial as I don’t believe they were utterly useless.

I then read the next bit as presuming that ‘I could see something I didn’t like but wasn’t allowed to
Say something about it.
A, the only thing I could see was a media witch hunt against the party leadership being instigated
From all sides including the right wing factions of the Labour Party.
B, I say what I want.
And I certainly wouldn’t say Diane Abbott was thick ‘far from it in fact.
Starmer I very much doubt will be getting my vote, already rolling out the red carpet to the zionists

Sorry if I’ve misunderstood.

 

[Ian1779]

How much of a say has Starmer had in this?


An extensive internal investigation into the way Labour handled antisemitism complaints will not be submitted to the Equality and Human Rights Commission, after an intervention by party lawyers.

Then we have alleged conversations between we don't know who making comments when we don't know what was said.

Then you have the end of the article.


Following what the report describes as a "systematic review" of all complaints received between November 2016 to February 2018, it claims investigations were initiated into only 34 of the more than 300 complaints received in relation to antisemitism.

"At least half of these warranted action, many of them in relation to very extreme forms of antisemitism, but were ignored. Almost all of these complaints were forwarded from one inbox to another, and many of them were identified as Labour members and sent to the Head of Disputes, Sam Matthews, for action", the report claims.

In a statement to Sky News responding to the leaked report, Sam Matthews said: "This latest episode comes as no surprise to me, as an effort by a disgruntled faction who are floundering in their attempts to blame others in order to distract from matters that will be investigated by the EHRC and the Courts.

"I hope Keir Starmer will stand by his commitment to undo the damage that they and their supporters have caused.


Mr Matthew continued: "The proper examination of the full evidence will show that as Head of Disputes and Acting Director, I did my level best to tackle the poison of anti-Jewish racism which was growing under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership.

"A highly selective, retrospective review of the Party's poor record, not deemed good enough for submission by the Party's own lawyers and conducted in the dying days of a Corbyn's leadership in order to justify their inaction, simply cannot be relied upon."

So how is Starmer to blame?

It’s not he’s to blame as such... it’s the fact he ‘appears’ to be blocking it going to the EHRC... why would he do that?

 

[clint van damme]

How much of a say has Starmer had in this?


An extensive internal investigation into the way Labour handled antisemitism complaints will not be submitted to the Equality and Human Rights Commission, after an intervention by party lawyers.

Then we have alleged conversations between we don't know who making comments when we don't know what was said.

Then you have the end of the article.


Following what the report describes as a "systematic review" of all complaints received between November 2016 to February 2018, it claims investigations were initiated into only 34 of the more than 300 complaints received in relation to antisemitism.

"At least half of these warranted action, many of them in relation to very extreme forms of antisemitism, but were ignored. Almost all of these complaints were forwarded from one inbox to another, and many of them were identified as Labour members and sent to the Head of Disputes, Sam Matthews, for action", the report claims.

In a statement to Sky News responding to the leaked report, Sam Matthews said: "This latest episode comes as no surprise to me, as an effort by a disgruntled faction who are floundering in their attempts to blame others in order to distract from matters that will be investigated by the EHRC and the Courts.

"I hope Keir Starmer will stand by his commitment to undo the damage that they and their supporters have caused.


Mr Matthew continued: "The proper examination of the full evidence will show that as Head of Disputes and Acting Director, I did my level best to tackle the poison of anti-Jewish racism which was growing under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership.

"A highly selective, retrospective review of the Party's poor record, not deemed good enough for submission by the Party's own lawyers and conducted in the dying days of a Corbyn's leadership in order to justify their inaction, simply cannot be relied upon."

So how is Starmer to blame?

hes in charge of the party. You can guarantee if the report had fitted the agenda it would have been submitted.
There were also charges of bullying in the report and some of the detail is being leaked on social media, it's bad, including the bullying of one young man with mental health issues. Lets see if he des anything about it.

I had doubts about Starmer but was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. When he wouldn't reveal his backers when the other leadership candidates did alarm bells were ringing, this is another red flag for me.

 

[Skybluefaz]

So it took my sister over a week to get tested from the day she first notified the hospital that she works at that she thought she had coronavirus. Yet if you are a celebrity you can get tested with no symptoms.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

So it took my sister over a week to get tested from the day she first notified the hospital that she works at that she thought she had coronavirus. Yet if you are a celebrity you can get tested with no symptoms.

And is she ok?

 

[Astute]

You know why:
1.we failed to give any clarity on Brexit and should not have attempted to go against what people voted for. Boris had ‘Get Brexit done’ - it resonated, he played it perfectly and Labour gave him all the ammunition he needed.
2. Maybe we tried to flood too many policies in one go rather than trying to focus on 2/3 key ones. Trouble was a lot of them were already well received in 2017 and maybe though my we needed more new ones... a point for discussion definitely but not a direct reason for failure.
3. The leadership did have baggage which hindered them, and they allowed a certain image of them to become the ‘truth’ without directly calling it out or challenging it.
4. The anti-semitism crisis was again allowed to explode beyond what it actually was (a 0.05% issue within members) and again not challenged and called out for what it was.
5. The social media campaign of 2017 that was successful was trumped by a co-ordinated media campaign by the Tories that had been 2 years on the making.... especially on Facebook.They learnt from their mistakes and subconsciously fed a narrative into people’s mindsets... the exact people they needed to target to win.
6. Labour had the entire print, radio and TV media against them. And we didn’t challenge it well enough.

Hit the nail on the head. So you actually agree with me.

1, Exactly what I said.

2, Pushed free internet and taking back control of the railways. Just like I said.

3, Too many skeletons in the closet. Exactly what I said.

4, 0.05%? So this Sky News thing wasn't worth doing?

5, So the Tories had a better social network campaign. Wouldn't know as I don't do it. So not going to debate something I don't know much about.

6, Back to No.1 and No.3.... lots of ammunition given.

 

[Brylowes]

Starmer can fuck off after this:

Labour antisemitism investigation will not be sent to equality commission

Absolute arseholes ‘they have absolutely no interest in Governing for the people, the poor bloke
Never had a chance ‘the hardest enemy to defeat is the smiling one behind you.
Shocking. I hope he has grounds to sue.

 

[Brylowes]

How much of a say has Starmer had in this?


An extensive internal investigation into the way Labour handled antisemitism complaints will not be submitted to the Equality and Human Rights Commission, after an intervention by party lawyers.

Then we have alleged conversations between we don't know who making comments when we don't know what was said.

Then you have the end of the article.


Following what the report describes as a "systematic review" of all complaints received between November 2016 to February 2018, it claims investigations were initiated into only 34 of the more than 300 complaints received in relation to antisemitism.

"At least half of these warranted action, many of them in relation to very extreme forms of antisemitism, but were ignored. Almost all of these complaints were forwarded from one inbox to another, and many of them were identified as Labour members and sent to the Head of Disputes, Sam Matthews, for action", the report claims.

In a statement to Sky News responding to the leaked report, Sam Matthews said: "This latest episode comes as no surprise to me, as an effort by a disgruntled faction who are floundering in their attempts to blame others in order to distract from matters that will be investigated by the EHRC and the Courts.

"I hope Keir Starmer will stand by his commitment to undo the damage that they and their supporters have caused.


Mr Matthew continued: "The proper examination of the full evidence will show that as Head of Disputes and Acting Director, I did my level best to tackle the poison of anti-Jewish racism which was growing under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership.

"A highly selective, retrospective review of the Party's poor record, not deemed good enough for submission by the Party's own lawyers and conducted in the dying days of a Corbyn's leadership in order to justify their inaction, simply cannot be relied upon."

So how is Starmer to blame?

That is a very selective summary if you don’t mind me saying.
Almost like you have an agenda or prejudged opinion.

 

[clint van damme]

Hit the nail on the head. So you actually agree with me.

1, Exactly what I said.

2, Pushed free internet and taking back control of the railways. Just like I said.
rpoblem
3, Too many skeletons in the closet. Exactly what I said.

4, 0.05%? So this Sky News thing wasn't worth doing?

5, So the Tories had a better social network campaign. Wouldn't know as I don't do it. So not going to debate something I don't know much about.

6, Back to No.1 and No.3.... lots of ammunition given.

I don't think a policy to renationalise the railways was the probelm , it was that that policy extended to renationalising everything. I think renationalising railways was popular. Not that that made a great deal of difference over all.
It was a poor campaign and the concessions made to centrists over Europe was a killer.
McDonnell held his hands up to getting it wrong, I don't think Corbyn ever did.

 

[skybluetony176]

Imagine referring back to the Empire as evidence we know how to deal with a pandemic in the 21st century. Incredible.

So stupid. The creation of the empire spread horrific diseases in both directions. The common cold all but killed of the indigenous people of the Caribbean and British officials regularly only lived for months in parts of Africa after arriving due to a lack of immunity to tropical diseases. The Empire was born on death from disease.

 

[Ian1779]

Hit the nail on the head. So you actually agree with me.

1, Exactly what I said.

2, Pushed free internet and taking back control of the railways. Just like I said.

3, Too many skeletons in the closet. Exactly what I said.

4, 0.05%? So this Sky News thing wasn't worth doing?

5, So the Tories had a better social network campaign. Wouldn't know as I don't do it. So not going to debate something I don't know much about.

6, Back to No.1 and No.3.... lots of ammunition given.

The only thing we ever disagreed on was Corbyn. I believed (and still do) that he was a decent man with decent principles and the right moral compass. I concede that is clearly not enough - as much as that frustrates me.

The whole Sky News thing is showing what lots of people always believed in the party.... it was an inside job to undermine the leadership by obstructing the process of a small amount of complaints to create a narrative of incompetence and ignoring the problem. And that’s not even getting into the biggest issue which is all about support of Palestine... it’s the crux of it all. Just look at how they tried the same stuff on Sanders (like they did to Miliband as well) - Sanders shut it down by calling it out as shit from Day 1.

 

[clint van damme]

That is a very selective summary if you don’t mind me saying.
Almost like you have an agenda or prejudged opinion.

Indeed, he quoted only the sources who want the report suppressed, the first half of the report tells a different story.
Astute is quite within his rights to agree with the former but personally I don't.

 

[Astute]

This is what I meant by presume.
The way I read that ‘you are presuming that I believe Labour were utterly useless but I’m in denial.
I’m not in denial as I don’t believe they were utterly useless.

I then read the next bit as presuming that ‘I could see something I didn’t like but wasn’t allowed to
Say something about it.
A, the only thing I could see was a media witch hunt against the party leadership being instigated
From all sides including the right wing factions of the Labour Party.
B, I say what I want.
And I certainly wouldn’t say Diane Abbott was thick ‘far from it in fact.
Starmer I very much doubt will be getting my vote, already rolling out the red carpet to the zionists

Sorry if I’ve misunderstood.

You have misunderstood but not a problem.

I didn't state what my problems were. I stated why Labour didn't have a hope.

I didn't say Labour were useless. I stated the way I thought Labour would be viewed. But some people can't get their head around seeing the perceived view and it nit being a personal view.

Was me saying skeletons in the closet saying everyone was guilty of anything? No. It was seeing the ammunition given. But after years of trying to get this point across hardly any Labour voter has ever listened.

And no. I wouldn't have voted for free internet for all. I wouldn't have voted for nationalisation of the railway network that would have cost untold billions when it could have been done for free just taking time to do it. I also wanted to know what the idea of Brexit was. This was a major point for me. I ended up not voting as nobody was worth my vote.

All of that money could have gone into the NHS as I said at the time. But no. I am an easy target to say I am anti Labour. Yet nobody has ever come out with me backing anyone else.

 

[Skybluefaz]

And is she ok?

At the moment she is at home recovering so hopefully all will be fine cheers.

 

[Ian1779]

I don't think a policy to renationalise the railways was the probelm , it was that that policy extended to renationalising everything. I think renationalising railways was popular. Not that that made a great deal of difference over all.
It was a poor campaign and the concessions made to centrists over Europe was a killer.
McDonnell held his hands up to getting it wrong, I don't think Corbyn ever did.

It was a campaign on Boris’ terms - he set the agenda, he already had the tag lines ready to go. We pushed for an election we didn’t want. Political suicide at its finest. Just look at Swinson... hers was even worse!

 

[clint van damme]

You have misunderstood but not a problem.

I didn't state what my problems were. I stated why Labour didn't have a hope.

I didn't say Labour were useless. I stated the way I thought Labour would be viewed. But some people can't get their head around seeing the perceived view and it nit being a personal view.

Was me saying skeletons in the closet saying everyone was guilty of anything? No. It was seeing the ammunition given. But after years of trying to get this point across hardly any Labour voter has ever listened.

And no. I wouldn't have voted for free internet for all. I wouldn't have voted for nationalisation of the railway network that would have cost untold billions when it could have been done for free just taking time to do it.

All of that money could have gone into the NHS as I said at the time. But no. I am an easy target to say I am anti Labour. Yet nobody has ever come out with me backing anyone else.

renationalisng railways does not cost billions, it doesn't cost anything if you do it as franchises expire. The government do it all the time.
It was the renationisation of utilities that would cost billions.