8 years progress or regression (9 Viewers)
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Definitely a club on the up and better off overall I’d say, the recent success has changed the mindset of the club and fans.
Of course the ground issue is a major concern that needs to be addressed and we really need our own in the long-term. A rental deal is always going to put a glass ceiling above us and stop us from progressing further than being a League 1/Championship yo yo club.
The idea of the franchise wankers profiting from our success in terms of naming rights and other sponsorship deals is sickening.
Of course the ground issue is a major concern that needs to be addressed and we really need our own in the long-term. A rental deal is always going to put a glass ceiling above us and stop us from progressing further than being a League 1/Championship yo yo club.
The idea of the franchise wankers profiting from our success in terms of naming rights and other sponsorship deals is sickening.
Flying Fokker
Well-Known Member
It almost seem like Wasps should be paying us to play at the Ricoh...if we are such a pull for advertisers. (We are on the up and should continue to progress against the backdrop of other clubs hitting the buffers financially. At least we can forget about maintaining the stadium.
I hope SISU bring Cov back to the city. I fear they may look at alternatives.
I hope SISU bring Cov back to the city. I fear they may look at alternatives.
HuckerbyDublinWhelan
Well-Known Member
This is why I feel we need a cut of any sponsorship deal.
we need to keep all football revenue, and have a cut of that sponsorship deal. They own the place so happy for them to keep the bigger share.
Promotion whilst in Birmingham really will be a kick in the teeth to them and the trust
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
That’s the problem though, it’ll always put us at a disadvantage and we will never progress further.
Why should we settle for them keeping the majority of a lucrative deal that would not have been possible without us?
I think SISU will be aware of this which is why I would not be surprised if we were playing in Birmingham still next season.
pastythegreat
Well-Known Member
Depends how you view it. Using the ccfc. name for a better deal then we should get a cut of it but that I suspect would come in how much we pay rent wise. The previous deal with Japanese company Ricoh I think was £10million for 10 years should have covered most of the rent for years had the club been run properly, it wasn’t and that £10million was soon swallowed up way before sisu turned up faced with that extortionate rent agreement. Unfortunately to come back and play in Cov we have to accept the landlord of the stadium. As yet there’s not even a suggestion of where a new stadium could go even if our owner was up for building one. So I’m afraid we have to accept it’s the Ricoh warts and all or nowhere.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Same position but on the up if we are playing in coventry next season whenever that starts
pastythegreat
Well-Known Member
Genuine question, is it all about playing in Coventry again? Regardless of deal/pitch/losses etc?
ie, for us to get to the championship, it would make much bigger stadium naming rights, which w**ps would benefit from NOT us. We'd also be paying them rent for them to use us as a cash cow through revenue. We'd have to rely on them to keep the pitch nice, which they've failed to do EVERY season since owning it!
Yes, I fully agree CCFC should be playing in Coventry, but at what cost do we do it?
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Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
Weird one. Without crowds a lot of the clubs are going to suffer. We at least have the advantage of a comparative low cost base and used to less income. Some of The Championship big boys (plus the likes of Ipswich, Sunderland) are really going to struggle. The only out some of them have is if they have a Bellingham or Grealish (if Villa were relegated) to sell to the PL. Although, the PL sides know that those clubs will be desperate to sell so the price will go down imho.
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
To echo others thoughts, need to get back to Coventry, but only if the pitch is rectified (which Wasps won't want to fork out for) Be awful to have to play on a sh*te pitch every other game again.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I know what my opinion is
my opinion is playing in coventry is the single most important next step for our club
The next step after that is a sustainable long term future in coventry
The next step would be our own stadium in coventry
All of this is so much easier with a successful football club and I almost feel ccfc and Sisu have put their time and money where the mouths are and deserve some goodwill for the last 3 years but I understand how hard that is given we have been playing outside of coventry
My dream timescale would be coventry next season if not behind closed doors and this needs to be a sustainable long term deal while a new stadium is built.
I am so naive though and can’t believe that there is any intention to build a stadium apart from comments when we met seemed very genuine. But hey I’m naive
But where else is there to play ? St. Andrews isn’t forever maybe another year and now we are in the championship for me getting away from Brum is paramount. Doubt the Prem would accept anything other than playing in Coventry.
johnwillomagic
Well-Known Member
We are definitely on the up and fans and SISU in recent times have both been great, the club is being run sensibly and at a suitable budget.
I think going back to the Ricoh now however would be a backwards step unless terms are considerably more favourable with a better pitch and more income streams for the clubs. If we don't get this and particularly with bcd being likely for a while at start of season we should stay in Birmingham....far better pitch for starters.
Unless things were considerably better in terms of rent and income streams we should leave the Ricoh well alone for a bit more in the short term!
I think going back to the Ricoh now however would be a backwards step unless terms are considerably more favourable with a better pitch and more income streams for the clubs. If we don't get this and particularly with bcd being likely for a while at start of season we should stay in Birmingham....far better pitch for starters.
Unless things were considerably better in terms of rent and income streams we should leave the Ricoh well alone for a bit more in the short term!
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Unless that’s the catalyst for a long term solution sustainable
pastythegreat
Well-Known Member
No, ST Andrew's isnt forever, agreed, but rushing back to Coventry to put us back in the same situation of paying rent and keeping W**ps afloat while treading water ourselves isnt the answer I'm afraid. Just to get back to Coventry at any cost isnt right, helpful or what we need right now. We're on an upward curve, why give ourselves and albatross around our necks to bring us back down?
Once w**ps and the council realise what they're missing out on with us then maybe, they'll offer us a deal that is beneficial to us and not just them. Maybe even consider going 50/50 on ownership? But to come back and rent from w**ps only for them to make a small fortune from our name will only ever male matters worse. If people dont see that, then I genuinely dont think they'll ever get it.
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Colin Steins Smile
Well-Known Member
BCD will mean no income until fans are allowed back, so designate Ryton as our home ground that will ensure home advantage?
Alternatively, paying a lot of money to Wasps and perpetuate their ownership of the Ricoh seems a backward step, especially considering the crap pitch they preside over, which will knacker our playing style. If we can hold off returning to the Ricoh in the short term that bankrupts Wasps, it'll be worth it!
Alternatively, paying a lot of money to Wasps and perpetuate their ownership of the Ricoh seems a backward step, especially considering the crap pitch they preside over, which will knacker our playing style. If we can hold off returning to the Ricoh in the short term that bankrupts Wasps, it'll be worth it!
The coventrian
Well-Known Member
Cos trying to bankrupt someone the first time worked out well didn't it.
Colin Steins Smile
Well-Known Member
Different context and business environment this time.
thekidfromstrettoncamp
Well-Known Member
The situation both us and Wasps are in( BGD) will dictate how any deal would be done I believe last year a deal was sorted till the dreaded letter to E U (what a lot of money that has cost us) dispite what lots say on here I think they would be willing to do a fair deal The pitch would be something needing to be sorted .There are other grounds where the 2 sports are played surely some of the pitches are in better condition could they not learn from them.As for a share from the nameing rights Wasps are run by business people they know that the draw for a new rights deal for the Stadium would be more reliant on us playing there.I do believe SISU went around things to way round they should have secured at least half the Stadium (water under the bridge). What is to stop them even now when entering talks about a deal trying to aquire a deal ever business in the country are working under different circumstances and a deal may just be possible cause we are not going to get 1 otherwise and getting the majority of the fans watching again isn't going to happen in Birmingham
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Yeah, let’s rush back to the Ricoh and keep the franchise propped up and get taken advantage of.
Why would it be an issue for the PL if we were playing in Birmingham? What would they do, deny us promotion?
Flying Fokker
Well-Known Member
They could play behind closed doors at Ryton.
I hope SISU sell out. Sepals et al will want to take a pension in the next few years. I had a dreadful thought that they may celebrate a silver anniversary of ownership before we get to play in our own stadium.
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
In simple terms not owning the Ricoh is a good thing. No overheads. Renting it at a reasonable rent but maintaining all the rights to the income from match days would be less compromising in many ways than trying to outright own your stadium. It's really a matter of the pros and cons you are looking at. If you require collaterall to run a football cub, and need to put up the stadium for that then ownership would be required. However that has proven to be a disaster in the past, and these days clubs are more inclined, along with newer regulations to operate within sustainable budgets, therefore need to outright own a stadium is less important.
If CCFC have further success as the last few seasons, and I see no reason we won't then WASP would be foolish to turn down the opportunity of getting us back at the Ricoh. Sponsorship could increase 10 fold should we get promoted again. The stadium would be a sell out for home fixtures the vast majority of the time. Rent would natuarally incease and WASP would simply benefit exponentially all round. There is no downside to this if the contracts between SISU and WASP are are ironed out correctly. For example SISU maintain the right to reassign the sub-lease, therefore valuing the clubs residency at the Ricoh. Any lease with WASP clearly would have to be long term. Not 250 years, but substantially long as in 50 years with renewable clauses and protections should WASP decide to sell up, and new owners came in. Nothing is insurmountable, you just have to be willing and sensitive to your own requirements, while submitting to there's too. Downside would be sharing a pitch, stadium rights and signage - all those things, but who really cares about whether the seats are sky blue or black?
If CCFC have further success as the last few seasons, and I see no reason we won't then WASP would be foolish to turn down the opportunity of getting us back at the Ricoh. Sponsorship could increase 10 fold should we get promoted again. The stadium would be a sell out for home fixtures the vast majority of the time. Rent would natuarally incease and WASP would simply benefit exponentially all round. There is no downside to this if the contracts between SISU and WASP are are ironed out correctly. For example SISU maintain the right to reassign the sub-lease, therefore valuing the clubs residency at the Ricoh. Any lease with WASP clearly would have to be long term. Not 250 years, but substantially long as in 50 years with renewable clauses and protections should WASP decide to sell up, and new owners came in. Nothing is insurmountable, you just have to be willing and sensitive to your own requirements, while submitting to there's too. Downside would be sharing a pitch, stadium rights and signage - all those things, but who really cares about whether the seats are sky blue or black?
Don’t think your far off with this to be honest. To me the pitch though would have to be a key part of the agreement, for example we play first at a weekend, we have input into the maintenance of the pitch. You only have to look at Ryton-on-Dunsmore to see our ground staff prepare a far superior playing surface. These conditions would obviously have to have financial penalty clauses in them.
One other area for me would be the rent should be based on a percentage of the crowd rather than a set figure. That way it is always in every bodies interest.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
It’s not although I do wonder how much the crowd would have been for the home game showing the trophy
Legia Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
We are on the up, and have been for a few years, but that was from hitting an all time low. We are now getting back to where we were when Sisu took over. If we finish higher than 17th in the Championship next season, then on the pitch we will be in a better position than when they took over. While acknowledging they took on something of a poisoned chalice, those years of stagnation in League 1 and the Northampton move, still means they have a bit to do to be in credit. Finding a way to play in Coventry will be a big deciding factor in changing that.
thekidfromstrettoncamp
Well-Known Member
I maybe wrong but IF SISU ever built a Stadium (ha ha) we would be no better off .What would be nice if some rich person who had the interest of CCFC at heart built 1 and set up a covent on it making sure any deal done on the sale of the club would require that the ground stays with the club afterwards .Any one know someone with big pockets?
thekidfromstrettoncamp
Well-Known Member
SAJ your quote about Ryton surface that does not have 15 big arsed guys trampling all over it and scrums bit of an unfair comparsion.They may be better but I wonder what they would be able to do at the Ricoh?
Otis
Well-Known Member
I have done a scientific weight and mass calculation and come to the conclusion that one average rugby player is equal to six average footballers, one and half Akinfenwa's, or two and a bit Jon Parkin's.
While previously we've an onerous set of outgoings re stadium I do wonder if some of our competitors are resentful jealous of our more recent beneficial rates.
I know most won't agree with that and it could be argued .
But from the outside and from a partisan or neutral standpoint it may be possible to make that case .
Something in Barry Fry's article seemed to hint at that .
Congratulating Birmingham to an extent.
Not saying he's right or accurate,but from an outside viewpoint.
I know most won't agree with that and it could be argued .
But from the outside and from a partisan or neutral standpoint it may be possible to make that case .
Something in Barry Fry's article seemed to hint at that .
Congratulating Birmingham to an extent.
Not saying he's right or accurate,but from an outside viewpoint.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
On the pitch its hard to argue we're not better off. We were a team suffering years of decline with a bloated squad of players looking for a payday. We're now a team on the up and, while we're not self sufficient, the team budget seems to be under control.
Off the pitch not being tied to an unaffordable deal with no access to revenues is a good thing but we all know it has come at the cost of being out of the city. I don't believe its essential to own a stadium but any deal has to work for us. If we can get a deal which sees the club based at the Ricoh where we have equal billing (at least) in terms of branding, club shop etc at the right cost then the Ricoh becomes a viable long term option.
Coming at it from our side I'd be looking for a rent that was equitable to what other clubs pay to maintain and operate their grounds, ie: we'd be paying out the same as other clubs. However in return we'd need access to the same income streams as other clubs, that means matchday revenues, fair share of the sponsorship, access to hospitality at cost rather than retail price & only paying for what we use. The club doesn't need to become a venue operator running exhibitions, leave that to Wasps, but at the the same time if local companies want to use the Ricoh facilities due to its CCFC connection we should benefit from that. That will be a hard thing to resolve as you don't want CCFC and Wasps competing in trying to sell the same facilities (meeting rooms etc).
And of course the other major concern in returning would be the state of the pitch.
Off the pitch not being tied to an unaffordable deal with no access to revenues is a good thing but we all know it has come at the cost of being out of the city. I don't believe its essential to own a stadium but any deal has to work for us. If we can get a deal which sees the club based at the Ricoh where we have equal billing (at least) in terms of branding, club shop etc at the right cost then the Ricoh becomes a viable long term option.
Coming at it from our side I'd be looking for a rent that was equitable to what other clubs pay to maintain and operate their grounds, ie: we'd be paying out the same as other clubs. However in return we'd need access to the same income streams as other clubs, that means matchday revenues, fair share of the sponsorship, access to hospitality at cost rather than retail price & only paying for what we use. The club doesn't need to become a venue operator running exhibitions, leave that to Wasps, but at the the same time if local companies want to use the Ricoh facilities due to its CCFC connection we should benefit from that. That will be a hard thing to resolve as you don't want CCFC and Wasps competing in trying to sell the same facilities (meeting rooms etc).
And of course the other major concern in returning would be the state of the pitch.
thekidfromstrettoncamp
Well-Known Member
I think your still a bit light weight there make it one and threequarters of Akinfenwa's.He is a real big lad close up i wouldn't want him to fall on me. Love your quotes lighten up myday.