Update from Big Dave (2 Viewers)

[fernandopartridge]

Ten years is hugely ambitious. I'd suggest that a more realistic option that Wasps would agree to is probably 2 years with an option of a third.

Maintenance would cost far more than management surely depending on your meaning, so I can't see this being agreed to and I think Wasps would probably want us to make a fairly reasonable contribution towards the pitch given that its quality really is far more important for us than it is for them.

Unsure what Wasps would consider as 'fair' for commercial revenue. Again, I just can't see Wasps agreeing to us keeping all the revenue earned from F&B or other commercial income such as parking etc. They didn't last time so why would they now? Also, lets just say for the sake of argument maximum capacity is allowed in stadiums next season (obviously it won't be), do you honestly think Wasps will willingly allow us to take all earned revenue from F&B given our attendances are likely to increase? Whilst games are likely to be played BCD for the foreseeable, Wasps will still inevitably have one eye on this.

Wasps wanted them to sign a 10 year deal a couple of years back, why would they want a short term one?

 

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[SkyBlueCRJ]

I'd instantly walk away at a 2 year deal, we need long term stability not to kick the can down the road.

Absolutely. But can you honestly see either side wanting to get into bed with each other for 10 years though?

You just know the conditions that Wasps would demand for such an agreement to be reached would be unagreeable for both SISU and the club.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Wasps wanted them to sign a 10 year deal a couple of years back, why would they want a short term one?

Since when?

 

[jto123]

Ten years is hugely ambitious. I'd suggest that a more realistic option that Wasps would agree to is probably 2 years with an option of a third.

Maintenance would cost far more than management surely depending on your meaning, so I can't see this being agreed to and I think Wasps would probably want us to make a fairly reasonable contribution towards the pitch given that its quality really is far more important for us than it is for them.

Unsure what Wasps would consider as 'fair' for commercial revenue. Again, I just can't see Wasps agreeing to us keeping all the revenue earned from F&B or other commercial income such as parking etc. They didn't last time so why would they now? Also, lets just say for the sake of argument maximum capacity is allowed in stadiums next season (obviously it won't be), do you honestly think Wasps will willingly allow us to take all earned revenue from F&B given our attendances are likely to increase? Whilst games are likely to be played BCD for the foreseeable, Wasps will still inevitably have one eye on this.

If that is Wasps position then I simply believe there is no value in going back to the Ricoh, particularly as they are struggling financially. Three years would provide no stability. Yes maintenance would cost more, but that's the point considering they are cutting up the pitch (although I can see an argument in sharing this burden, but it is important that we have control through management). If they don't provide us significant revenue then we are working against our own commercial interests.

The three demands I set out surely have to be our minimum guarantees, whether or not Wasps are likely to agree to it.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

If that is Wasps position then I simply believe there is no value in going back to the Ricoh, particularly as they are struggling financially. Three years would provide no stability. Yes maintenance would cost more, but that's the point considering they are cutting up the pitch (although I can see an argument in sharing this burden, but it is important that we have control through management). If they don't provide us significant revenue then we are working against our own commercial interests.

The three demands I set out surely have to be our minimum guarantees, whether or not Wasps are likely to agree to it.

I agree with all of demands you think the club should make.

But like you said whether Wasps will agree to them is a completely different kettle of fish and that's what my post was based on. At the end of the day whilst it's well documented they're in financial distress, it's their stadium whether we like it or not so they're in the driving seat. But as I previously mentioned in the thread at least we can find comfort in the fact that we're in a better negotiating position this time.

 

[Frostie]

Wasps wanted them to sign a 10 year deal a couple of years back, why would they want a short term one?

Did they?

Strange if true as SISU asked for 5 years last season & Wasps refused saying they only wanted a short term deal:
NEWS: Statement issued by Coventry City Owners SISU following groundshare announcement

 

[cov4theprem]

Disappointing that the new kit is still a month away given summer will be all but over the time they go on sale. Odd that they have been agreed months ago but still can't show them. Hummel have since signed up Everton and released their kit in a matter of weeks. I assume the lack of sponsorship is holding it too

 

[chiefdave]

Since when?

Did they?

Thought this was a generally known thing, surprised to see people don't know anything about it.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Thought this was a generally known thing, surprised to see people don't know anything about it.

Where was this quoted? If it's as generally known as you can claim surely there's proof.

EDIT: Also, what was the basis of the deal and why wasn't it agreed. Perhaps I'm being absent minded and missed this completely but it's all well and good FP claiming a 10 year deal offered but if it wasn't commercially viable for the club then it's a meaningless point to make - especially considering what has changed since it was offered. If a long term deal is to be reached it needs to be 'fair' for both parties.

 

[mark_ccfc]

No I think he's saying that we could have already announced St Andrews but they are trying to get a Ricoh deal done. Chances of that happening? Who the fuck knows. Hardly gone well in the past.

I agree with this. CCFC/SISU are in a much better bargaining position now though. If games are being played BCD (i.e. no fans at all) then there is little or no economic disadvantage in playing at St Andrews and CCFC/SISU can bide their time and drive a hard bargain. WASPS should be begging for a ccfc return.

 

[Paxman II]

What have WASP got to lose? It's more much needed revenue regardless of what deal is struck. It would mean better opportunities to attract bigger sponsors for the stadium. Even if CCFC paid a zero rent they would make money from everything else by having us there. A compromise looks likely. Times have changed, circumstances have changed for everyone. If there is not a deal announced soon I'll be very suprised.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Did they?

Strange if true as SISU asked for 5 years last season & Wasps refused saying they only wanted a short term deal:
NEWS: Statement issued by Coventry City Owners SISU following groundshare announcement

It was further back. Things have moved on now, it makes no sense for an already insecure Wasps to turn away a long term commitment

 

[Grendel]

5 years is what the club were looking for when me & Pete spoke to them earlier this year.

It’s still pointless. The club isn’t building a ground - no chance - and even if it did (which it isn’t) 5 years will be as pointless as 2 - you need a rolling contract with no surrender clauses - they all know this so 5 years is still kicking down the road

 

[jim20]

I think if we are paying rent we should have access to F&B and parking revenues etc. At the moment Wasps make no money from it, they will be getting rent at the very least if we go back.

 

[Evo1883]

No I think he's saying that we could have already announced St Andrews but they are trying to get a Ricoh deal done. Chances of that happening? Who the fuck knows. Hardly gone well in the past.

I actually think we are in a position of power in the negotiations now... Attendances anywhere between 18-22000 over 23 match days, a couple potential sellouts with villa coming probably.. . plus sponsorship potential at the stadium with a second tier club etc... Wasps looking at record low attendances next season in Coventry .. Harder to turn away now... No longer small fry

 

[Evo1883]

Half the club shop too please for Coventry city at the stadium ...

 

[Flying Fokker]

No I think he's saying that we could have already announced St Andrews but they are trying to get a Ricoh deal done. Chances of that happening? Who the fuck knows. Hardly gone well in the past.

Yep, that’s my take on it as well. I’d hope Boddy is making sure Fisher is quarantined, blindfolded and masked up. Oh, a gap would help as well.

Two turkey’s do not an Eagle make...FFS

 

[Ricketts]

If it is behind closed doors we might as well play at Ryton.

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

If we can get back to The Ricoh, perhaps Blues won't be able to afford Callum O'Hare lol !

 

[CCFC88]

Lets not forget the added weight us playing at the stadium gives them in naming right negotiations.

 

[Sbarcher]

Interesting piece about Wigan Warriors and Wigan FC. Both Ian and Darryl have owned Oxford Utd so proper footballing men. Football and rugby under one roof?

Comment: Why Ian Lenagan-led bid for Wigan Athletic makes sense

 

[CCFC88]

Interesting piece about Wigan Warriors and Wigan FC. Both Ian and Darryl have owned Oxford Utd so proper footballing men. Football and rugby under one roof?

Comment: Why Ian Lenagan-led bid for Wigan Athletic makes sense

Rugby League a bit easier on the playing surface, scrums and a lot more rolling around in Union. As has previously been mentioned they make the surface work at Bristol so no reason it cant be done here, mutual interests and funds the difference between there and here though.

Also a real history and want for Rugby in both Bristol and Wigan. Our city's rugby club has it's own ground, the other is just a fad.

 

[shmmeee]

I agree with this. CCFC/SISU are in a much better bargaining position now though. If games are being played BCD (i.e. no fans at all) then there is little or no economic disadvantage in playing at St Andrews and CCFC/SISU can bide their time and drive a hard bargain. WASPS should be begging for a ccfc return.

This is nuts. We aren’t at St Andrews for financial reasons. It isn’t because they want too much it’s because they don’t want us there while the EU stuff is going on. Either they change their mind and we go back or they don’t and we don’t. All this armchair crap about F&B and increased profits is utter tripe

 

[clint van damme]

I actually think we are in a position of power in the negotiations now... Attendances anywhere between 18-22000 over 23 match days, a couple potential sellouts with villa coming probably.. . plus sponsorship potential at the stadium with a second tier club etc... Wasps looking at record low attendances next season in Coventry .. Harder to turn away now... No longer small fry

half a million footfall to the arena. I can't see how they can possible turn it down.

 

[Gibbo]

No I think he's saying that we could have already announced St Andrews but they are trying to get a Ricoh deal done. Chances of that happening? Who the fuck knows. Hardly gone well in the past.

that was how I read it

 

[shmmeee]

half a million footfall to the arena. I can't see how they can possible turn it down.

Same way they could last season, they think having leverage over the EU complaint is more valuable long term than the rent and other benefits of us being there. Our best hope is they realise there’s nothing that can be done to change that and decide not to punish the club for the actions of its owners.

 

[mark82]

This is nuts. We aren’t at St Andrews for financial reasons. It isn’t because they want too much it’s because they don’t want us there while the EU stuff is going on. Either they change their mind and we go back or they don’t and we don’t. All this armchair crap about F&B and increased profits is utter tripe

Then Wasps should stop lying and say they don't want us there then. Why come out publicly and say they've moved past the EU complaint if that isn't the case? Why the need for deceit?

 

[shmmeee]

Then Wasps should stop lying and say they don't want us there then. Why come out publicly and say they've moved past the EU complaint if that isn't the case? Why the need for deceit?

Why the deceit on all sides? It’s a clusterfuck. Have you got a link to their last statement on this? I thought they weren’t talking publicly because of the NDA

 

[mark82]

Why the deceit on all sides? It’s a clusterfuck. Have you got a link to their last statement on this? I thought they weren’t talking publicly because of the NDA

I'll see if I can find it. Found the statement by accident the other day when looking at something else.

 

[mark_ccfc]

This is nuts. We aren’t at St Andrews for financial reasons. It isn’t because they want too much it’s because they don’t want us there while the EU stuff is going on. Either they change their mind and we go back or they don’t and we don’t. All this armchair crap about F&B and increased profits is utter tripe

The point I am trying to make is that while the covid-19 situation is still around, there is really not much (economic) advantage in ccfc returning to the Ricoh, all the financial pressure is on WASPS who could do with our rent.

 

[mark82]

Why the deceit on all sides? It’s a clusterfuck. Have you got a link to their last statement on this? I thought they weren’t talking publicly because of the NDA

Club Statement

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Then Wasps should stop lying and say they don't want us there then. Why come out publicly and say they've moved past the EU complaint if that isn't the case? Why the need for deceit?

Because that'll make them look bad, and they're obsessed with preserving their image even if they have to resort to lying.

It's no different to how CCC position themselves. We're good, SISU bad.

 

[shmmeee]

The point I am trying to make is that while the covid-19 situation is still around, there is really not much (economic) advantage in ccfc returning to the Ricoh, all the financial pressure is on WASPS who could do with our rent.

Ive been hearing about this so called financial pressure since Wasps arrived, it doesn’t seem to have made a blind bit of difference. No company turns down essentially free cash without reason no matter the state of their finances. This fantasy of “wait it out” frustrates me, even if they went bust there’s no guarantees of who would replace them. Better to focus on the actual hurdles and even better Sisu stop fucking around and do some work on getting us our own ground and avoid all this shit.

 

[mark82]

The point I am trying to make is that while the covid-19 situation is still around, there is really not much (economic) advantage in ccfc returning to the Ricoh, all the financial pressure is on WASPS who could do with our rent.

Not sure I agree. The rent at the Ricoh would likely be cheaper. The "benefit" of the deal at St. Andrews is we get F&B, if there's no fans then that is worthless and we are paying over the odds.

 

[mark82]

Ive been hearing about this so called financial pressure since Wasps arrived, it doesn’t seem to have made a blind bit of difference. No company turns down essentially free cash without reason no matter the state of their finances. This fantasy of “wait it out” frustrates me, even if they went bust there’s no guarantees of who would replace them. Better to focus on the actual hurdles and even better Sisu stop fucking around and do some work on getting us our own ground and avoid all this shit.

The bit around the new ground is key. If they genuinely want this they really need to step it up.