So now we know (13 Viewers)

[Nick]

But SISU agreed to no more legal action-isn’t that what Boddy and Joy said in their statements?


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Yeah, no more action against Wasps. Which is why I assume Wasps didn't want an indemnity as it was agreed

 

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[shmmeee]

But SISU agreed to no more legal action-isn’t that what Boddy and Joy said in their statements?


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No. Sisu agreed no more legal action *against Wasps* today we learn that Wasps agreed to drop that too.

The sticking point has always been no more legal action against people who aren’t Wasps that would still go against the general principle of “stop trying to reverse the Ricoh sale”.

 

[Nick]

There seems to be very little wiggle room left for CCC. Will be interesting to see what they say next, if anything, as I'm struggling to see how they spin this one into being nothing to do with them or someone else's fault.

Presumably somehow the indemnity CCC are insisting on reimburses Wasps if they are forced to pay out as a state aid remedy. Otherwise why would Wasps entertain the idea of letting CCC dictate the terms of an agreement between landlord and tenant?

"It was all SISU"
"Public Opinion is on our side"

Even if they just give Weber Shanwick a call, people would see straight through it now.

 

[shmmeee]

There seems to be very little wiggle room left for CCC. Will be interesting to see what they say next, if anything, as I'm struggling to see how they spin this one into being nothing to do with them or someone else's fault.

Presumably somehow the indemnity CCC are insisting on reimburses Wasps if they are forced to pay out as a state aid remedy. Otherwise why would Wasps entertain the idea of letting CCC dictate the terms of an agreement between landlord and tenant?

That makes no sense. Reimbursing Wasps is indemnity for Wasps. Both sides agree they don’t need that.

Clearly there’s something Wasps think Sisu have planned that is against CCC and would result in Wasps losing the Ricoh. We just don’t know what that is exactly.

 

[Nick]

That makes no sense. Reimbursing Wasps is indemnity for Wasps. Both sides agree they don’t need that.

Clearly there’s something Wasps think Sisu have planned that is against CCC and would result in Wasps losing the Ricoh. We just don’t know what that is exactly.

If Wasps thought that, wouldn't that mean they think something was shady about the deal?

 

[Fergusons_Beard]

What’s the monetary threat to CCC from the state aid case? The entire point is that CCC are owed money.

StateAid remedies aren’t punitive. They don’t fine. They “recover” any aid given.

Am sorry to be pedantic but isn’t ‘recovering any aid given’ a monetary threat?

Unless of course CCC and wasps used potatoes as currency.....


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[tisza]

That’s what doesn’t make sense. How can an indemnity for CCC lead to payments from the State Aid judgement.

That’s why I think it can only be some future legal action.

several possibilities spring to mind.
If CCC don't enforce the full value from Wasps in a timely fashion if the EU decision determines they undersold Ricoh.
SISU to claim loss of potential earnings & damages due to the nature & price of the sale.

 

[shmmeee]

If Wasps thought that, wouldn't that mean they think something was shady about the deal?

We’ve been over this. You can think you’re OK but want the threat of legal action to go away. Not wanting to be falsely accused doesn’t mean you think you’re guilty.

All legal action is an uncertainty as it relies on a third party judgement.

 

[Nick]

We’ve been over this. You can think you’re OK but want the threat of legal action to go away. Not wanting to be falsely accused doesn’t mean you think you’re guilty.

All legal action is an uncertainty as it relies on a third party judgement.

Clearly there’s something Wasps think Sisu have planned that is against CCC and would result in Wasps losing the Ricoh.

Yes but if whatever they had planned results in Wasps losing the Ricoh.... Arses seem to be twitching.

Thats not me saying there's a smoking gun or "LOLZ SISU WILL WIN", I still don't think that will happen.

 

[shmmeee]

Am sorry to be pedantic but isn’t ‘recovering any aid given’ a monetary threat?

Unless of course CCC and wasps used potatoes as currency.....


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I’ll try and be clearer. All numbers from my ass:

EU decide that CCC undersold rhe Ricoh lease to Wasps.

Let’s say it was sold for £6m and it shouldn’t been £60m.

Therefore CCC have effectively given Wasps £54m.

EU say “oi Wasps, you need to pay CCC £54m to right this wrong”

Where is the monetary threat to CCC? They stand to gain £54m.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Maybe the indemnity is in place if the state aid case is in favour of SISU. Then the council want SISU to underwrite to payback as it were to wasps?

In turn, that leaves wasps without an asset because you’ve got to be put in the position prior to the state aid (as I understand)

could explain the situation.

 

[MalcSB]

There seems to be very little wiggle room left for CCC. Will be interesting to see what they say next, if anything, as I'm struggling to see how they spin this one into being nothing to do with them or someone else's fault.

Presumably somehow the indemnity CCC are insisting on reimburses Wasps if they are forced to pay out as a state aid remedy. Otherwise why would Wasps entertain the idea of letting CCC dictate the terms of an agreement between landlord and tenant?

Wouldn’t ccc reimbursing wasps be state aid?

 

[Nick]

I’ll try and be clearer. All numbers from my ass:

EU decide that CCC undersold rhe Ricoh lease to Wasps.

Let’s say it was sold for £6m and it shouldn’t been £60m.

Therefore CCC have effectively given Wasps £54m.

EU say “oi Wasps, you need to pay CCC £54m to right this wrong”

Where is the monetary threat to CCC? They stand to gain £54m.

Because they then get a document saying St Andrews, Sixfields etc cost us 54m and we get:

Wasps go bust or back to London and the Ricoh rots to the ground while the council own it.

Duggins, Lucas etc all get shamed out of the city to live in the Shetlands.

Joy decides she loves Pete and Mark so much she hands them the club in return for a double header.

That's wank bank material. (maybe not the double header bit, the new stadium bit)

 

[shmmeee]

Yes but if whatever they had planned results in Wasps losing the Ricoh.... Arses seem to be twitching.

Thats not me saying there's a smoking gun or "LOLZ SISU WILL WIN", I still don't think that will happen.

I don’t think arses are twitching. Well I do bit they’re the arses of Wasps accountants. Wasps want to refinance and right now lenders see a threat to the Ricoh. So wasps want that threat to go away.

Nome of that necessarily means anyone thinks they’re guilty.

 

[shmmeee]

Because they then get a document saying St Andrews, Sixfields etc cost us 54m and we get:

Wasps go bust or back to London and the Ricoh rots to the ground while the council own it.

That's wank bank material.

Yeah exactly. But that’s not the state aid case, that’s future legal action. Which is what I’ve been saying for at least a year.

Have we really been agreeing this whole time?

 

[Nick]

Yeah exactly. But that’s not the state aid case, that’s future legal action. Which is what I’ve been saying for at least a year.

Have we really been agreeing this whole time?

Nobody has been disagreeing with you? If that WAS (I don't think it will be) the case. They have every right to and I hope they rinse them IF it helped CCFC.

 

[MalcSB]

I don’t think arses are twitching. Well I do bit they’re the arses of Wasps accountants. Wasps want to refinance and right now lenders see a threat to the Ricoh. So wasps want that threat to go away.

Nome of that necessarily means anyone thinks they’re guilty.

If that is the case, on what planet could they reasonably expect the complainant to provide the means to enable that to happen?

 

[shmmeee]

Nobody has been disagreeing with you? If that WAS (I don't think it will be) the case. They have every right to and I hope they rinse them IF it helped CCFC.

Well that’s the question isn’t it? How much does it help CCFC as opposed to Sisu?

This is why the “future of the club” stuff worries me. Are Sisu saying the club only has a future if two future legal decisions go their way?

As I’ve said, personally I can’t see that happening and would rather we just dropped the legals () and got on with the football in Cov. But IANAL and honestly don’t know how strong the case is.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Well that’s the question isn’t it? How much does it help CCFC as opposed to Sisu?

This is why the “future of the club” stuff worries me. Are Sisu saying the club only has a future if two future legal decisions go their way?

As I’ve said, personally I can’t see that happening and would rather we just dropped the legals () and got on with the football in Cov. But IANAL and honestly don’t know how strong the case is.

I always look at it as anything that benefits SISU will ultimately hasten their exit. If they can put us back at the Ricoh, and get out of it with a case against the council, they’ll sell us

 

[shmmeee]

If that is the case, on what planet could they reasonably expect the complainant to provide the means to enable that to happen?

Sorry you’ve lost me.

 

[Nick]

Well that’s the question isn’t it? How much does it help CCFC as opposed to Sisu?

This is why the “future of the club” stuff worries me. Are Sisu saying the club only has a future if two future legal decisions go their way?

As I’ve said, personally I can’t see that happening and would rather we just dropped the legals P) and got on with the football in Cov. But IANAL and honestly don’t know how strong the case is.

It depends really.

You would like to think that if costs WERE awarded then they would make it watertight. It would be hilarious to see Joy's face if they said.

"We now award you £50m, this is going directly to pay for a new stadium and an independent manager will look after this"

Again, probably not legally possible.

It could just mean they take £25m and fuck off.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Because they then get a document saying St Andrews, Sixfields etc cost us 54m and we get:

Wasps go bust or back to London and the Ricoh rots to the ground while the council own it.

Duggins, Lucas etc all get shamed out of the city to live in the Shetlands.

Joy decides she loves Pete and Mark so much she hands them the club in return for a double header.

That's wank bank material. (maybe not the double header bit, the new stadium bit)

Please don't use that picture though

That is all great (to a degree, Ricoh rotting would cost me money, and what did the Shetlands do to us?!?).

Goes back to they really, really need to show material progress on their end of that deal though. Fine, we'll phone them an uber if they like.

I can't get away from the fact the plan is the same old, same old, and they're manipulating the conditions to make it so. Except unlike Northampton (let's not forget, as Northampton grew to a crisis the statement from ACL was 'negotiations are at an end', CCFC therefore had nothing else to do than move out) the game has been played a lot more slickly for public perception by SISU.

(Note, in saying this I'm not saying that Wasps are innocent butterflies in this)

The best way for SISU to prove me wrong is to make some material progress on said new ground.

 

[Nick]

The best way for SISU to prove me wrong is to make some material progress on said new ground.

By no means do I think they have the diggers ready to go, I do think they probably know exactly where the "site" would be though and have that up their sleeve the next time something needs to go out.

 

[cc84cov]

Didn't CCC actually come out and say it wasn't them earlier this week or am I dreaming that up..snakes

Of course they did we all knew it was them they know the clock is ticking

 

[Deleted member 5849]

By no means do I think they have the diggers ready to go, I do think they probably know exactly where the "site" would be though and have that up their sleeve the next time something needs to go out.

Warwick Uni were set to do some kind of pitches for national university football, I think. It'd be limited issue from their POV for that to be upgraded... and downgraded back again, if necessary!

 

[chiefdave]

Wouldn’t ccc reimbursing wasps be state aid?

Could have a JR to find out Got to be something in it for Wasps otherwise they'd tell the council to do one who they asked for indemnity to be included as a condition of any future agreement between Wasps and CCFC.

 

[MalcSB]

Yo

Sorry you’ve lost me.

You said wasps wanted a threat to go away. The current threat to Ricoh ownership is the EU complaint. The complaint was raised by sisu. On what planet could wasps reasonably expect sisu to provide the means to enable the threat to Ricoh ownership to go away?

 

[robbiethemole]

So if the EU case is proven, Wasps would pay CCC an extra £xm to cover the shortfall, but could possibly go bump, then SISU could sue CCC for lost revenue etc maybe to the same value £xm? If an indemnity is in place, CCC want SISU to pay Wasps the same £xm to save them
and SISU possibly go bump?

Or is that too simplistic?

 

[Nick]

So if the EU case is proven, Wasps would pay CCC an extra £xm to cover the shortfall, but could possibly go bump, then SISU could sue CCC for lost revenue etc maybe to the same value £xm? If an indemnity is in place, CCC want SISU to pay Wasps the same £xm to save them
and SISU possibly go bump?

Or is that too simplistic?

Baby turn around and let me see that sexy Boddy go bump,bump,bump

 

[mr_monkey]

Please don't use that picture though

That is all great (to a degree, Ricoh rotting would cost me money, and what did the Shetlands do to us?!?).

Goes back to they really, really need to show material progress on their end of that deal though. Fine, we'll phone them an uber if they like.

I can't get away from the fact the plan is the same old, same old, and they're manipulating the conditions to make it so. Except unlike Northampton (let's not forget, as Northampton grew to a crisis the statement from ACL was 'negotiations are at an end', CCFC therefore had nothing else to do than move out) the game has been played a lot more slickly for public perception by SISU.

(Note, in saying this I'm not saying that Wasps are innocent butterflies in this)

The best way for SISU to prove me wrong is to make some material progress on said new ground.

The bit I can't get away from is what's in it for Warwick uni to issue the joint statement if it's just a smokescreen for the Ricoh, what do they get out of it other than if that is the case they look like fools

 

[shmmeee]

Yo

You said wasps wanted a threat to go away. The current threat to Ricoh ownership is the EU complaint. The complaint was raised by sisu. On what planet could wasps reasonably expect sisu to provide the means to enable the threat to Ricoh ownership to go away?

No I don’t think that is the threat. Wasps has always said they’ll put that aside and now apparently are happy with a wider lack of indemnity against themselves.

Clearly they think the threat is after a successful state aid judgement, Sisu have some future legal action against CCC planned that would result in Wasps losing their lease at the Ricoh.

 

[1ccfc]

They drew first blood

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

The bit I can't get away from is what's in it for Warwick uni to issue the joint statement if it's just a smokescreen for the Ricoh, what do they get out of it other than if that is the case they look like fools

I’m guessing bare minimum we’ll relocate the training ground and academy there.

 

[jordan210]

So basically we need the EU to hurry up and find CCC to be in the wrong and then bang party time

 

[shmmeee]

So if the EU case is proven, Wasps would pay CCC an extra £xm to cover the shortfall, but could possibly go bump, then SISU could sue CCC for lost revenue etc maybe to the same value £xm? If an indemnity is in place, CCC want SISU to pay Wasps the same £xm to save them
and SISU possibly go bump?

Or is that too simplistic?

I don’t think it’s CCC want. CCC only stand to gain financially. It’s Wasps want. Wasps think whatever it is would lose them the Ricoh, or more immediately the threat of that is stopping them getting refinanced.