superskyblue
Well-Known Member
Coventry's City's Chris Badlan: From building site to building teams
Coventry Citys head of recruitment Chris Badlan talks to Sky Sports News about the newly-promoted Championship clubs transfer strategy
Doing Transfers Differently - Sky Sports article with Chris Badlan (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter superskyblue
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AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
Badland has played a big role in what we’ve achieved over the last few years. Shouldn’t be underestimated.
Hope we can keep him a little longer. Will be on the radar of bigger clubs for sure with the players he has spotted and convinced Robins to buy.
Hope we can keep him a little longer. Will be on the radar of bigger clubs for sure with the players he has spotted and convinced Robins to buy.
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
These data analytics guys are new breed of modern football scouting. Believe it or not they’ve grown off the back of games like FIFA and Championship Manager. They’ve not been involved in football professionally but are just complete brain boxes in player assessments against technical criteria. It’s quite fascinating how they analyse players and there’s a massive community out there. A lot of these data scouts are waxing lyrical about our recruitment this summer.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
I was thinking this. 1 of my fav films and book is good too
Robins is Billy beane?
It's funny the oakland As are my fav baseball team(before I saw moneyball) and now looks like cov using data similarly too
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
"Fankaty Dabo (Coventry's player of last season), Marko Marosi, Michael Rose, Kyle McFadzean and Callum O'Hare all came in on free transfers, while less than £1m was spent on the club's top goalscorer last season Matty Godden"
That line from the article perfectly sums up how great the recruitment department has been in the last couple of years. Under a million for 6 players who collectively could be worth £10-£15m (and I've just plucked those figures out of thin air).
That line from the article perfectly sums up how great the recruitment department has been in the last couple of years. Under a million for 6 players who collectively could be worth £10-£15m (and I've just plucked those figures out of thin air).
1ccfc
Well-Known Member
Now all we need is a 20 game winning streak!
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
Even players like mason hiwulla bright Chaplin Thomas were all good even if didnt get promoted that year
Barret and that guy with 3 barell name were leaguen2 so before badlan. I am trying to think of s truly bad signing
Maybe junior brown and agogo
superskyblue
Well-Known Member
Kastaneer? Never going to get them all right.
Gibbo
Well-Known Member
But the jury is out on the cheap european players. Not Hamer, he cost money - that's different and looks to be a real star
But Kastaneer, Jobello, Hissner and Dacosta were all cheapies. One of those four has to become a regular to warrant continuing with that strand in recruitment. Kasta is an almost certain failure, Jobello and Hissner are ok in so far as we know but probably won't set the world on fire. Dacosta is an unknown.
This strategy was an interesting and exciting innovation by the club which set them apart from most others. But we won't even begin to know whether it is a success until Dacosta and Jobello are fit and Hissner's lost a bit of weight.
But Kastaneer, Jobello, Hissner and Dacosta were all cheapies. One of those four has to become a regular to warrant continuing with that strand in recruitment. Kasta is an almost certain failure, Jobello and Hissner are ok in so far as we know but probably won't set the world on fire. Dacosta is an unknown.
This strategy was an interesting and exciting innovation by the club which set them apart from most others. But we won't even begin to know whether it is a success until Dacosta and Jobello are fit and Hissner's lost a bit of weight.
KenilworthSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
Kastaneer...
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
I think Jobello can be classed as a good signing. Kastaneer has something in him, just not set the world alight yet. As for the other two, too early to tell really.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
This article and the ‘Moneyball’ comparisons came at a weird time because I only watched the film last week when I was off work sick.
Ironically, the analytical approach the A’s used was based off analytical models used in other sports, and football (our football) was one of the sports that pioneered this - the Opta Index came out in 1996.
As sports fans, we generally do our judgements based on the ‘eye test’ - if a player looks good, we like him even if the statistics don’t reflect that.
SkyBlue_Adam
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure Badlan has touch on this before, but players with the technical qualities/Characteristics of Kastaneer, Hilssner, Jobello are so much cheaper abroad. To buy players with the same sort of quality from the UK would be extortionate. Like Kastaneer though, comes with a much higher risk whether you can get them to settle though..
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
So important to our future although now it’s set up and working probably easier to maintain. You’ve got to think a huge club could come in and say here’s more money make it work for us
cooperskyblue
Well-Known Member
Will always be hits and misses with transfers, but Badlan has had so many more hits than misses.
Jobello looked OK until his injury so for me jury is still out. Da Costa suffered injury sadly but look forward to seeing him when he is back. Hilssner again jury is out.
It is great though to have a seamless and united identity of how we want to play and the players we are looking to bring in. Long may it continue.
Jobello looked OK until his injury so for me jury is still out. Da Costa suffered injury sadly but look forward to seeing him when he is back. Hilssner again jury is out.
It is great though to have a seamless and united identity of how we want to play and the players we are looking to bring in. Long may it continue.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
It’s just about having a system whereas before we had nothing in place and just randomly signed whoever was around.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
Tell me about it I am reading the book as we speak because I loved the nfilm so much watched it twice over lockdown
Stats can be very interesting. Unless in a chess format...
DannyThomas_1981
Well-Known Member
Exactly.
Best demonstrated by the Jim Smith debacle.
And then Adams panic purchase of Kevin Kyle for a very inflated price - a player who simply did not fit our team and was not scouted properly. I actually have a lot of sympathy for KK as it was hardly his fault that he was a panic purchase and we paid so much.
These days there would be a plan B and C in place if someone like McSheffrey was sold; everything is so much more organized and professional.
Typically as a Cov fan I'm now beginning to worry that we will lose Badlan - would be a huge loss as he's been such a big part of our success.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Thinking about it it’s inevitable we will but it’s nit inevitable that we won’t have planned for it and have a replacement in mind who may be even better.
For me only kastaneer an out and out failure
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
I'm hopeful that just as Badlan has a list of potential signings for every position Boddy has a list of potential replacements for staff members should any of them get poached from above.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Kastaneer may well be a case to show how much we use the analytics. I imagine in those Kastaneer comes very high, but it's the 'intangibles' that have made him unsuccessful - attitude, work ethos etc. So while I'm happy for the vast majority of our scouting to be done on database stuff as you're likely to come up with more hit than misses as players will put the effort in there's still room for good old fashioned scouting and research.
KenilworthSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
I don't think you can qualify Kastaneer as anything less than a poor signing. If I remember correctly, Badlan had followed Kastaneer's career since he was playing in Netherland's U17 team. That's 7-8 years of keeping tabs on him. Also, wasn't there also a promise that we would get a 'Championship quality' player in Kastaneer?
I think this is potentially one issue with using data analytics within football with regards to scouting players, as it unfortunately cannot ascertain the character of the player. Which in my opinion is a crucial factor that should be actively considered when a club decides to bring a player in.
Obviously, you can't get them all right though and undoubtably, Kastaneer won't be the last poor signing that we make as every transfer has an element of risk attached to it.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
The club does factor in a players characteristics. MR confirmed a while back that we look for players who will fit in with the current group of players. The context was something about fostering the great team spirit we have.
You see that Kastaneer fits in well with the group of players - the assist in preseason shows he gets on with the players. Ultimately, it’s not worked out because the player doesn’t work hard enough.
It’s football at the end of the day, and people make mistakes, even with the use of sophisticated analytical systems. Every club takes the odd risk on a maverick, and that might have been the case here. If it works, MR is a genius, if not it looks bad.
Overall, the recruitment strategy has been great and we’ve managed to outthink and outperform our competition in League 1 and hopefully we can punch well above our weight in the Championship.
Gibbo
Well-Known Member
All agreed and well known to everybody. That was the point behind the strategy - skilled european players that nobody has noticed, at less cost, who would join us partly for the chance of being spotted by bigger clubs and get really big money. Or something like that. Definetely worth a concerted shot as an extra string to the bow in addition to transfer fees, frees, youth, development and loans.
But as yet, Hamer aside ands he is a more conventional acquisition with a transfer fee, the jury is out. That means that it is doubt as to whether it is a viable strategy. The measure of success is that players should become regular contenders for a first team slot, or else why bother. The brief bits we have seen of K, J & H is that they are probably first teamers in League 1 (even Kastaneer). But things may change. What's more even when fit, Dacosta is unlikley to be first choice as Dabo, the current back three and Rose are all ahead of him.
The strategy is genuinely worth a punt, but it can't be called a success.....yet
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
no one gets it 100% right.
Our success rate over the last couple of years has been very impressive.
Happy_Martian
Well-Known Member
I was thinking exactly this while I was reading that Sky article. Kasta has all the requisites to be a good footballer. What the analytics don't show is the mental side, his attitude, personality and how easily he would fit in with the existing squad. I'm sure he, like Bright before him, would excel in almost any European team who have a lot more flexibility and patience when it comes to characters and their eccentric sides. Unfortunately for both of them, the English setup doesn't and the team is more important than the individual.
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
Cue Philosoraptor....
KenilworthSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
To be fair Kasta was probably a great learning curve for Badlan, and a pretty low cost one at that as whilst I'm sure we paid a fair whack in agent fees it could've been a lot worse. Hopefully, he realises now that importance of getting to know the player's character, alongside thorough consideration of the data, is vital when scouting players in the future.
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Gibbo
Well-Known Member
agreed, and during his tenure Robins' success rate is well above average. The European thing is the only question mark. To view it as a success, one of Kast, Job, Hiss & Dacost has to become a regular first teamer, with two a bit like Shipley - in and out.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
The biggest issue for promoted teams is strengthening enough to survive in the league above.
Looking at the signings we have made, compared to a lot of clubs we have been really busy. Standing on our own two feet in the championship has obviously been taken extremely seriously. Even with one of the smallest budget, we have been in a serious hustle which is great.
It really surprises me looking at the championship in and outs. So many teams have signed very little players. I get that there is still a few weeks left, and we had a bigger break, but even so. We are prepared and I think we will overshoot many expectations this season.
Looking at the signings we have made, compared to a lot of clubs we have been really busy. Standing on our own two feet in the championship has obviously been taken extremely seriously. Even with one of the smallest budget, we have been in a serious hustle which is great.
It really surprises me looking at the championship in and outs. So many teams have signed very little players. I get that there is still a few weeks left, and we had a bigger break, but even so. We are prepared and I think we will overshoot many expectations this season.
SleepyGinger
Well-Known Member
If players like hillsner, jobello, kastaneer, hamer, Dabo were a gaurenteed success they wouldn’t be coming to us.
It’s a calculated risk but currently more are paying off than failing.
It’s a calculated risk but currently more are paying off than failing.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I think overall our recruitment team does a great job. Its easy to pick out the signings that haven't worked but there isn't a club in the country that can say every signing they make is a success even when they're spending huge amounts bringing in 'names' with a proven track record.