Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (47 Viewers)

[Ian1779]

I guess that with all these things, they could be taking medicines that affect the immune system.

This is the bit that worries me the most, having a child that takes these.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

so what about 4 years once the rot sets in it's there and you still have the economic disaster that is brexit to come.

They are election winning machines and Labour need to flip a lot of seats

 

[David O'Day]

They are election winning machines and Labour need to flip a lot of seats

They've won 2 elections in almost 30 years

 

[Ian1779]

They've won 2 elections in almost 30 years

The last one handed on a plate thanks to a stunning plan from chief architect Captain Hindsight.

 

[David O'Day]

The last one handed on a plate thanks to a stunning plan from chief architect Captain Hindsight.

Corbyn being toxic also had a lot to do with it

 

[Ian1779]

Corbyn being toxic also had a lot to do with it

It contributed for sure, but the 2nd ref was the real Kryptonite.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Corbyn not having any balls was the problem....the very definition of lacking courage of his own conviction.....and advised not to upset the London centric beardy metrosexual hipsters.....fucking coward.

 

[Ian1779]

Corbyn not having any balls was the problem....the very definition of lacking courage of his own conviction.....and advised not to upset the London centric beardy metrosexual hipsters.....fucking coward.

Totally fair comment.

 

[David O'Day]

rashfords twitter feed is very life affirming today

 

[skybluetony176]

rashfords twitter feed is very life affirming today

Definitely a in this together attitude from local communities. Unlike the Tories who apparently didn’t vote for it because they’re just so sensitive that when one of them gets called scum the only course of action is to vote for children not to get free school meals over the holidays.

 

[Bugsy]

rashfords twitter feed is very life affirming today

dont do twitter, any examples what you can post on here at all

 

[shmmeee]

Definitely a in this together attitude from local communities. Unlike the Tories who apparently didn’t vote for it because they’re just so sensitive that when one of them gets called scum the only course of action is to vote for children not to get free school meals over the holidays.

I find I get called scum a lot less when I don’t deny kids food at Christmas. They should give it a go.

 

[shmmeee]

It contributed for sure, but the 2nd ref was the real Kryptonite.

 

[David O'Day]

dont do twitter, any examples what you can post on here at all

Just like that proves that sometimes people and humanity can be great

 

[skybluetony176]

dont do twitter, any examples what you can post on here at all

It’s basically a raft of local businesses and individuals all around the country taking up the slack and pledging free meals to children that need them during the school holidays.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

View attachment 17295

Funny they were fine voting for him in 2017

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Funny they were fine voting for him in 2017

He did a far better campaign then. Was energetic, optimistic, enthusiastic. Beginning of this election you'd have had hopes he could do the same, but he looked tired, apathetic, a bit hectoring... muddled the policy and added a couple of extreme ones popped up as Tories were promising the world.

The 2017 Corbyn would have done better than the 2019 one. The 2017 one turned people around who weren't sure about him, the 2019 one did nothing of that.

 

[shmmeee]

Funny they were fine voting for him in 2017

TBF when you dig in Brexit is mentioned by a large minority of people, but doesn’t really back up the “we were too remain” argument, more the opposite:



FWIW I think we’d already lost Brexit voters before 2017 with general hyper liberalism and anti British feeling. 2017 was mostly Remain voters. Weakness on that and general disappointment with Corbyn were our main problems in 2019.

For the record I didn’t like Labour’s position on Brexit and I wouldn’t want them to peruse a Remain voter strategy generally. Just that I disagree with the dynamics at play in 2017 & 2019.

 

[wingy]

I think the argument could have been made to remain .
They never did.
Just as Boris swung it the other way because of the hiatus there was a window to do the opposite , they didn't take it .
I realise this might make me sound like a fascist but I say f***it and it's my opinion ,I base it on material + ideals of closer union to the continent ,not reatreating and retracting

He was a leave protagonist
but there you go.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

TBF when you dig in Brexit is mentioned by a large minority of people, but doesn’t really back up the “we were too remain” argument, more the opposite:

View attachment 17296

FWIW I think we’d already lost Brexit voters before 2017 with general hyper liberalism and anti British feeling. 2017 was mostly Remain voters. Weakness on that and general disappointment with Corbyn were our main problems in 2019.

For the record I didn’t like Labour’s position on Brexit and I wouldn’t want them to peruse a Remain voter strategy generally. Just that I disagree with the dynamics at play in 2017 & 2019.

I was generally very disappointed with Corbyn too. It still didn’t drive me to vote for the charlatan heading a party that had been crap for a decade. Starmer explicitly said he didn’t want to ‘blame’ 2019 voters or call anyone stupid because actually he’d be right to do so.

Neither party deserved to win

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I think the argument could have been made to remain .
They never did.
Just as Boris swung it the other way because of the hiatus there was a window to do the opposite , they didn't take it .
I realise this might make me sound like a fascist but I say f***it and it's my opinion ,I base it on material + ideals of closer union to the continent ,not reatreating and retracting

He was a leave protagonist
but there you go.

He got the same issue Johnson has now. A personal belief at odds with his party's belief. If Johnson has any sense (and political survival-wise... he does!) he'd look at that, and see how committing to a position would play better for him than fudging it.

 

[Ian1779]

I think the argument could have been made to remain .
They never did.
Just as Boris swung it the other way because of the hiatus there was a window to do the opposite , they didn't take it .
I realise this might make me sound like a fascist but I say f***it and it's my opinion ,I base it on material + ideals of closer union to the continent ,not reatreating and retracting

He was a leave protagonist
but there you go.

I always felt that the Remain contingent expected the Leave contingent to do all the moving in a negotiation, ignoring the fact that they lost.

 

[Ian1779]

TBF when you dig in Brexit is mentioned by a large minority of people, but doesn’t really back up the “we were too remain” argument, more the opposite:

View attachment 17296

FWIW I think we’d already lost Brexit voters before 2017 with general hyper liberalism and anti British feeling. 2017 was mostly Remain voters. Weakness on that and general disappointment with Corbyn were our main problems in 2019.

For the record I didn’t like Labour’s position on Brexit and I wouldn’t want them to peruse a Remain voter strategy generally. Just that I disagree with the dynamics at play in 2017 & 2019.

I think this is a much more accurate portrayal.
The second highest category could also be easily linked to Labour’s dithering of Brexit position.
Maybe his lack of energy/lethargy came from having to run with a policy that he didn’t believe in - that said he did allow the members of party to dictate that position, and should have known that party membership does not reflect voting demographics, especially in Northern leave constituencies.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I think this is a much more accurate portrayal.
The second highest category could also be easily linked to Labour’s dithering of Brexit position.
Maybe his lack of energy/lethargy came from having to run with a policy that he didn’t believe in - that said he did allow the members of party to dictate that position, and should have known that party membership does not reflect voting demographics, especially in Northern leave constituencies.

The problem with that survey is that it doesn't show where individuals have mentioned multiple reasons.

Also, the other thing is that (and it's seen on the EU thread here) most people misrepresented his position on Brexit depending who they were. Leavers think he's an ardent Remainer and Remainers think he's an ardent Leaver.

Let's be honest, the constant media campaign against him (from the 'sensible' left and all the ring wing press) is unprecedented. 2017 frightened the life of the media so they set out to do everything they can to discredit Corbyn, aided and abetted by the centrist arseholes in Labour.

 

[David O'Day]

as someone who doorstepped in 2019 there is nothing wrong with that survey

Starmer was much more popular than Corbyn even then and many people said they'd vote for labour if he was leader

 

[Deleted member 5849]

2017 frightened the life of the media so they set out to do everything they can to discredit Corbyn, aided and abetted by the centrist arseholes in Labour.

He didn't help himself, though. 2017 he turned it around through a campaigning energy. That just wasn't there in 2019.

I dunno, maybe the time of year for the election didn't help either (less easy to hold a big rally in the dark wet and cold!) but there was definitely something missing from two years earlier.

And as for the Brexit position, that may have been muddled, but it also wasn't explained well on the campaign. Labour's Brexit position still offered the opportunity for us to leave, after all! He should have also been more open, I feel, to a more unified campaign with the Liberals. Could have helped them both, that - note the effect Brexit Party had by playing the numbers, rather than just a sweeping campaign in general. That helped to artificially enlarge a lead, and make it a one-issue vote.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He didn't help himself, though. 2017 he turned it around through a campaigning energy. That just wasn't there in 2019.

I dunno, maybe the time of year for the election didn't help either (less easy to hold a big rally in the dark wet and cold!) but there was definitely something missing from two years earlier.

And as for the Brexit position, that may have been muddled, but it also wasn't explained well on the campaign. Labour's Brexit position still offered the opportunity for us to leave, after all! He should have also been more open, I feel, to a more unified campaign with the Liberals. Could have helped them both, that - note the effect Brexit Party had by playing the numbers, rather than just a sweeping campaign in general. That helped to artificially enlarge a lead, and make it a one-issue vote.

Coventry only kept 3 Labour MPs thanks to Nigel Farage. Crazy really

 

[David O'Day]

Coventry only kept 3 Labour MPs thanks to Nigel Farage. Crazy really

Not that simple, I know plenty of people who voted Brexit Party but would never vote Tory. It's a fallacy to say that if the were no BXP candidates those people who have directly voted tory.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not that simple, I know plenty of people who voted Brexit Party but would never vote Tory. It's a fallacy to say that if the were no BXP candidates those people who have directly voted tory.

I imagine more would have voted Tory than Labour in the absence of BXP and since the majorities in Cov were wafer thin it wouldn’t have taken much at all

 

[David O'Day]

I imagine more would have voted Tory than Labour in the absence of BXP and since the majorities in Cov were wafer thin it wouldn’t have taken much at all

You can imagine whatever you want doesn't make it true

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Not that simple, I know plenty of people who voted Brexit Party but would never vote Tory. It's a fallacy to say that if the were no BXP candidates those people who have directly voted tory.

People who voted for Farage rather than Boris. Wow

 

[Grendel]

You can imagine whatever you want doesn't make it true

You just imagined you know lots of people David

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You can imagine whatever you want doesn't make it true

I don’t need to imagine when the polls show they were pulling more from the Tories fella. Indeed if it were no concern then Johnson wouldn’t have insisted on them standing down in most seats

 

[shmmeee]

I think this is a much more accurate portrayal.
The second highest category could also be easily linked to Labour’s dithering of Brexit position.
Maybe his lack of energy/lethargy came from having to run with a policy that he didn’t believe in - that said he did allow the members of party to dictate that position, and should have known that party membership does not reflect voting demographics, especially in Northern leave constituencies.

The case was there to make that a soft Brexit was best for all sides and for national unity. However I think by that time he’s become such a punchline that he personally didn’t have the gravitas to make that case. And we probably would’ve been caught between revoke and “proper Brexit” anyway. As Starmer is finding Brexit handed 40% to the Tories that literally won’t stop voting for them even if they start starving kids and blatantly stuffing their mates pockets full of cash while running a strategy seemingly designed to kill off their very demographic.

I was watching an Ian Dunt interview the other day and a good question was raised about Remains lack of a Farage type figure who fires up the base and keeps the major party in check and the best he could come up with was the Lib Dems. I think that says it all.

 

[shmmeee]

People who voted for Farage rather than Boris. Wow

Anti Tory sentiment in areas they destroyed in the 80s is (rightly) very strong even today.