Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (162 Viewers)

[David O'Day]

Tbh though the national average has gone up by a third in a week or two and is far too high, so being below it isn't exactly fantastic. However, the rules should be applied consistently.

The national average has gone up because of places in the south east that are running at 500 per 100k. When a city has figures that are less than that which led they government to praise Liverpool just 2 weeks ago you can see why the decision is questioned.

 

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[David O'Day]

Anything over 1 in 10000 isn’t good and has been treated as a problem all along

Not true figures of 150 to 160 per 100k were treated as great work just 2 weeks ago.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Not true figures of 150 to 160 per 100k were treated as great work just 2 weeks ago.

Oh I know that is where we are now at but that’s only cause in the north it got to 700 and Wales is currently 590 or so. So it’s all relative. Anything over 100 per 100000 since mass testing was available has been seen as bad. Friend works in public health

 

[fernandopartridge]

My local area 113 cases per 100k, it does look illogical.

The corona virus site allows you to look up by NHS Trust now. Quite hard to understand why we're still in Tier 3

 

[David O'Day]

Oh I know that is where we are now at but that’s only cause in the north it got to 700 and Wales is currently 590 or so. So it’s all relative. Anything over 100 per 100000 since mass testing was available has been seen as bad. Friend works in public health

To some people yes but as I said 2 weeks ago 150 to 160 was seen as the bench mark so it's the lack of consistency that is the issue.

You set a target, people reach that target and the you ignore said target.

When you keep a sector of the economy closed that isn't the vector of transmission that people think it is closed you are likely to create situations that are more dangerous as people go "off grid" or abuse the xmas rules.

So from a purely health reasoning you can say you want below 100 per 100k but in reality you have to have it higher or you risk fatigue.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

That really would be a Pandora’s box wouldnt it? Don’t get me wrong I’d hate to be making the decisions and it really is a shit storm across Europe. However it does seem other governments see the facts and react where as we take a good look at them, smell them, turn them over and over and then eventually when left without a choice, we make a decision

Yeah, it strikes me as obvious we should be having some tight restrictions just after Christmas - stop a spread as people go back wherever afterwards, if nothing else!

I suppose I can kind of see why you might want to hold off on that announcement, so people don't go mental over Christmas itself, thinking it's their last hurrah

 

[David O'Day]

My local area 113 cases per 100k, it does look illogical.

The corona virus site allows you to look up by NHS Trust now. Quite hard to understand why we're still in Tier 3

Because they fucked up by treating London as one mass entity which allowed boroughs in the east with dangerously high case rates to be on the same level as other more western boroughs with much lower case rates.

This is another lack consistency as well as the have told Greater Manchester you need to stay in tier 3 as 1 or 2 areas have slightly higher cases.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

To some people yes but as I said 2 weeks ago 150 to 160 was seen as the bench mark so it's the lack of consistency that is the issue.

You set a target, people reach that target and the you ignore said target.

When you keep a sector of the economy closed that isn't the vector of transmission that people think it is closed you are likely to create situations that are more dangerous as people go "off grid" or abuse the xmas rules.

So from a purely health reasoning you can say you want below 100 per 100k but in reality you have to have it higher or you risk fatigue.

Yep that’s very wise

 

[Deleted member 5849]

So neither of us have to go into work until January now. In effect, we're isolating. Not seeing any family over Christmas, and the irony is that that period of isolation would end, just after Christmas rules end, and we revert to the no socialising with people indoors or out message..

It's the closest I've got to thinking sod the rules - it's far 'safer' to miss Christmas and meet afterwards, than follow government guidelines!

 

[David O'Day]

Yep that’s very wise

Yes it is wise to be realistic about what is obtainable.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yeah, it strikes me as obvious we should be having some tight restrictions just after Christmas - stop a spread as people go back wherever afterwards, if nothing else!

I suppose I can kind of see why you might want to hold off on that announcement, so people don't go mental over Christmas itself, thinking it's their last hurrah

That’s a really good point too

 

[David O'Day]

So neither of us have to go into work until January now. In effect, we're isolating. Not seeing any family over Christmas, and the irony is that that period of isolation would end, just after Christmas rules end, and we revert to the no socialising with people indoors or out message..

It's the closest I've got to thinking sod the rules - it's far 'safer' to miss Christmas and meet afterwards, than follow government guidelines!

And this is the issue, constantly changing the parameters will make more people ignore the rules.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Because they fucked up by treating London as one mass entity which allowed boroughs in the east with dangerously high case rates to be on the same level as other more western boroughs with much lower case rates.

This is another lack consistency as well as the have told Greater Manchester you need to stay in tier 3 as 1 or 2 areas have slightly higher cases.

I get the feeling they're trying to reserve hospital capacity around GM as Oldham and Rochdale are both back on the way up.
Pennine Acute Trust which has a site in each place has 200 patients in hospital and 25 on ventilators and hasn't had much below that for months. My local hospital (Tameside) is only 4 or 5 miles away yet has only 1 patient on a ventilator and 34 in hospital.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

And this is the issue, constantly changing the parameters will make more people ignore the rules.

Like with anything if you get no reward for following the rules and no consequences for breaking them, compliance will drop. They have ruined anything good and still haven’t got the numbers they were after.

 

[Sick Boy]

Can see them tightening the Christmas rules

Going to be more or a less a total lockdown here over Christmas now.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Going to be more or a less a total lockdown here over Christmas now.

And in

Spain
Germany
France
Netherlands
Portugal
Ireland
Nothern Ireland
Wales
Scotland

In fact everywhere more or less than England. Mmmmmmm

We are great though so the virus knows that

 

[covmark]

And in

Spain
Germany
France
Netherlands
Portugal
Ireland
Nothern Ireland
Wales
Scotland

In fact everywhere more or less than England. Mmmmmmm

We are great though so the virus knows that

COVID-19: What are the Christmas coronavirus rules in other European countries?

Nations across the continent are implementing special rules for the festive season.

news.sky.com

Not quite true though. Most of those countries are relaxing restrictions the few days over Christmas.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[Nick]

I genuinely can't see life ever being back as it was. It's fucking madness.

 

[covmark]

I genuinely can't see life ever being back as it was. It's fucking madness.

I know mate it's never ending. Hopefully the vaccines do their job and we can get back to some sort of normality.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[chiefdave]

I genuinely can't see life ever being back as it was. It's fucking madness.

There's other countries that are already pretty much back to normal so it will happen at some point.

If you want to really depress yourself have a look at the T20 in New Zealand and test match in Australia that are on BT Sport at the moment. Crowds in, no distancing, no masks - like nothing ever happened. We seem a long way off that at the moment.

 

[Sick Boy]

And in

Spain
Germany
France
Netherlands
Portugal
Ireland
Nothern Ireland
Wales
Scotland

In fact everywhere more or less than England. Mmmmmmm

We are great though so the virus knows that

To be fair Italy replicated the tier system, which led to a huge increase in deaths

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

COVID-19: What are the Christmas coronavirus rules in other European countries?

Nations across the continent are implementing special rules for the festive season.

news.sky.com

Not quite true though. Most of those countries are relaxing restrictions the few days over Christmas.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Sorry my post wasn’t clear it was about making plans now for after Xmas unlike us

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

To be fair Italy replicated the tier system, which led to a huge increase in deaths

Yep still errors in all countries

 

[tisza]

We're not finding out about Xmas until the 21st (Xmas the 24th here). Hopefully restrictions remain in place.
Our per capita death rate 3rd worst in the world for past 2 weeks. Nearly 3 times the UK. Eastern Europe not doing well at all 2nd time around.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

More from Nick Gibbs:

All primary kids will go back, just Y11 and 13 for the first 5 days in secondary.
Agency staff and volunteers will be used to carry out the mass testing of students.
Remote learning for the other year groups.
It’s ok because we announced it on Dec 17th and schools go back on Jan 4th.

My other half’s mum works as a TA. She and others have been asked to volunteer to do the testing. Also love that now I’m being asked to again rip up the curriculum with no notice but also still deliver teaching in school for the ones who are there.

New job please

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I genuinely can't see life ever being back as it was. It's fucking madness.

Always does revert though - these things aren't uncommon(!)

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Always does revert though - these things aren't uncommon(!)

As said before a big concern of mine is what things could become normalised despite being no longer necessary. Will we forever be scared to shake someone’s hand? Sit near randoms on the bus? Clear our throats in public?

 

[fernandopartridge]

That test will be performed once, kids will not accept having a swap shoved up their nose again. It's a stupid idea from a stupid government.

More from Nick Gibbs:

All primary kids will go back, just Y11 and 13 for the first 5 days in secondary.
Agency staff and volunteers will be used to carry out the mass testing of students.
Remote learning for the other year groups.
It’s ok because we announced it on Dec 17th and schools go back on Jan 4th.

My other half’s mum works as a TA. She and others have been asked to volunteer to do the testing. Also love that now I’m being asked to again rip up the curriculum with no notice but also still deliver teaching in school for the ones who are there.

New job please

 

[tisza]

As said before a big concern of mine is what things could become normalised despite being no longer necessary. Will we forever be scared to shake someone’s hand? Sit near randoms on the bus? Clear our throats in public?

Shaking hands is part of the culture here. Normally every time you meet someone you shake hands - considered rude not to. Even if I say good morning to my neighbour I'm expected to shake hands. Walk into a room with 20 people and you're expected to shake hands with everyone.
Haven't shaken a hand or seen a handshake since about April.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

That test will be performed once, kids will not accept having a swap shoved up their nose again. It's a stupid idea from a stupid government.

yep....and thats just for the ones who give consent in the first place.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Shaking hands is part of the culture here. Normally every time you meet someone you shake hands - considered rude not to. Even if I say good morning to my neighbour I'm expected to shake hands. Walk into a room with 20 people and you're expected to shake hands with everyone.
Haven't shaken a hand or seen a handshake since about April.

I find it very odd not doing it when I’m meeting a new person. I’ll judge normality returning by when it’s allowed for me to do so

 

[Skybluefaz]

I find it very odd not doing it when I’m meeting a new person. I’ll judge normality returning by when it’s allowed for me to do so

I miss not being able to embrace my nearest and dearest with a handshake. I know it seems silly but I do miss it.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

If you want to really depress yourself have a look at the T20 in New Zealand and test match in Australia that are on BT Sport at the moment. Crowds in, no distancing, no masks - like nothing ever happened. We seem a long way off that at the moment.

The Ozzies & Kiwis must be bricking it a bit I reckon....watching the rest of the world in covid19 turmoil knowing that they've pretty much swerved it.....so far.....

....a similar feeling to me at start of March lockdown as I watched my 2 kids & wife come down with a nasty bout of norovirus, one after the other, day after day.....just as the world ran out of bog roll....

 

[wingy]

The messaging public directive's (Which one's?(wink nudge wink), have been an absolute shitshow, given cover by the broadcast media and Starmer

It's a fucking reactive shambles , they were warned as early late as autumn to act ahead .
Education breaks should have been planned in to/for each half-term +holiday breaks.
The bubbles and isolation of pupils ,it's safe for children to be in school)do not match the summer rhetoric .
This pathetic shtick that you can't tell/instruct the British poeple what to do is weak pathetic libertarian bullshit exposing the Chamberlain trait,nothing Churchillian about any of it.
The British poeple are instructed,levered ,pushed, leveraged to do this on a daily basis in scenarios, take work environment in myriad scenarios,,protest, strike etc.
Exposes the shift from 50's to now in terms of public health, local governance, delivery of Gov't ,civic community requirements and information, modern media does not serve the populace well here.

Edit:- The state really, what state?
Too much information!

 

[wingy]

Big question on Newsnight tonight around a letter to Cabinet regards lateral flow tests and their accuracy or lack of .
It was in a different context to the question of the late late protocol announced for schoolkids in the New year,dated 11thDec from some bigwig.

Looking for the piece on this but here's an earlier evaluation.
Although it must be said rates in Liverpool dropped significantly at that juncture.

COVID-19: Liverpool mass testing pilot not reaching city's poorest people, leaked documents show

Barriers to tests included poverty, a lack of digital skills, misinformation and a mistrust of the government.

news.sky.com