Derby unable to pay players wages (24 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This is on the BBC this morning:-

Derby County have angered Manchester City by blocking their attempt to sign goalkeeper Scott Carson on a permanent deal. The Championship club want to collect a loan fee for the 35-year-old Englishman this month.

Man City want to make Carson's deal permanent now but Derby need the £500k loan fee due this month to allow them to pay outstanding wages. I know Man City have no preordained right to demand Derby release a player to them but the fact that a club of their supposed resources with a takeover imminent is relying on a loan fee to meet their obligations is startling.

As others have said in the past, the first people knew of the Chelsea & Man City takeovers was when the deal had gone through and the new owners were being introduced to the press. Takeovers that have so much reported on them before the event tend to go awry - just look at Newcastle, or closer to home, us with Hoffman et al.

It’s just the white knight holding out for a lower price and Derby knowing the EFL won’t bother to sanction them

 

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[Terry_dactyl]

No points deduction for Pompey first time round in 1998. 9 points in 2010. Nothing when the parent company went into admin in 2011, Southampton fans weren't happy as they got a points deduction for the same thing. 10 points in 2012. They were all seperate administrations though, don't think they had two dedections for the same admin at any point.

We got one for going into admin and another when ACL turned down the CVA turned down didn't we? Even through we had to pay off the debts anyway as a condition of league entry.

Ah right, so not successive. It was a shit storm down there for a while. The bloke Gaydamaark, who took over from mandaric, was funded by his dad. Who made his money arms dealing. No idea why he stopped funding them...just as prem money was going super crazy.
They then had a couple of ‘fake Sheikhs’ owning them, seemingly just for comedy value.
Always better placed than us though, what with owning their own stadium and all that. Seem to be run very well now. Rich owner (Eisner?) who isn’t willing to over invest. Secure but not flash.

 

[Mcbean]

No points deduction for Pompey first time round in 1998. 9 points in 2010. Nothing when the parent company went into admin in 2011, Southampton fans weren't happy as they got a points deduction for the same thing. 10 points in 2012. They were all seperate administrations though, don't think they had two dedections for the same admin at any point.

We got one for going into admin and another when ACL turned down the CVA turned down didn't we? Even through we had to pay off the debts anyway as a condition of league entry.

Thanks Chief ! Was not aware of the detail

 

[PUSB-We_are_going_up]

Did Pompey get away with it? Pretty sure they were docked points for successive seasons.

Was it 3 successive season as well

 

[Grendel]

Thanks Chief ! Was not aware of the detail

We didn’t pay off any debts

 

[PUSB-We_are_going_up]

IMO for those 6 we would get at least £7m combined

Could argue more because Dabo is class, Hyam is a good ball playing CB could get a bit for him and Marosi is a really good goalkeeper

 

[Frostie]

There was a table of club’s team values last week, ours totalled £15.7m second lowest to Wycombe and about the same as Rotherham

It was a nonsense piece though based on farcical values for individual players.

 

[Adge]

The argument players values enhance the companies ability to attract buyers anyway is odd as you Would only realise those values if you sold - which would depreciate the clubs worth under that argument

This was the dumb argument Deliu had when he decided to give huge lengthy contracts to the likes of Bell, Mcsheffrey and Baker on some notion it would enhance the balance sheet

Absolute madness that was. Giving a lame duck like Bell an enhanced deal was on par with giving Bakayoko a new deal last summer.

 

[The Philosopher]

Our playing staff are liabilities not assets.
We have to pay them if we play or not,
and 6 of them are loans, so cost us money but have zero value, as for the rest, they cost us each week, while the value of their contracts decreases each week. And the transfer value of most of them is zero. (You couldnt give away Baka, Biamou, kastaneer, or Pask)
As for the rest, their combined worth is very little, only Hamer and Godden are really worth anything.

Our league standing gives us value in terms of semi-guaranteed tv / league revenue, probable sponsorship income etc.

£8m? This year

Our playing staff are liabilities not assets.
We have to pay them if we play or not,
and 6 of them are loans, so cost us money but have zero value, as for the rest, they cost us each week, while the value of their contracts decreases each week. And the transfer value of most of them is zero. (You couldnt give away Baka, Biamou, kastaneer, or Pask)
As for the rest, their combined worth is very little, only Hamer and Godden are really worth anything.

Maybe, but to offset the cost of contracts is the guaranteed TV / EFL prize income, even if we were to be relegated for the next two seasons. It’s about £8m champ, £4m L1, £3m L2. (might be wrong).

If we’ve got a wage bill of £4m with average 2 years left then we still are in front.

I know that’s all very sketchy but it’s the league status that gives the “Golden Share” it’s value. How Otium value that, value the players and the rest of it means that any accounts are open to any scrutiny and don’t mean a lot.

 

[Speedies_Chips]

Could argue more because Dabo is class, Hyam is a good ball playing CB could get a bit for him and Marosi is a really good goalkeeper

Hyam is not a good ball playing CB. He gets himself trapped on the left side touchline, gets closed down and ends up putting it out for a throw.

 

[PUSB-We_are_going_up]

Hyam is not a good ball playing CB. He gets himself trapped on the left side touchline, gets closed down and ends up putting it out for a throw.

Have you been watching a different Hyam?

 

[mark82]

Hyam is not a good ball playing CB. He gets himself trapped on the left side touchline, gets closed down and ends up putting it out for a throw.

I think a lot of that is down to him being right footed. We could do with a left footed centre back at some point with the system we play.

 

[Speedies_Chips]

I think a lot of that is down to him being right footed. We could do with a left footed centre back at some point with the system we play.

Agreed.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

I think a lot of that is down to him being right footed. We could do with a left footed centre back at some point with the system we play.

Agree with this to an extent. We certainly need a left footed defender in Hyam's position in order to balance the back line but his main issue isn't that he's right footed - it's that he neither has the technical ability nor athleticism to bring the ball out from the back at this level.

Hence why it baffles as to why he continues to make a point of bringing the ball out from the back as more often than not he loses the ball or makes a wayward pass whilst under pressure that puts us on the back foot/in danger.

I think it's also starting to become apparent that the opposition are specifically instructed to close him down once he attempts at bringing the ball forward as well. I'd wager that Hyam's weakness in this department is regularly identified by opposition performance analysts/managers in the match preparation process when coming up against us.

 

[SBAndy]

Agree with this to an extent. We certainly need a left footed defender in Hyam's position in order to balance the back line but his main issue isn't that he's right footed - it's that he neither has the technical ability nor athleticism to bring the ball out from the back at this level.

Hence why it baffles as to why he continues to make a point of bringing the ball out from the back as more often than not he loses the ball or makes a wayward pass whilst under pressure that puts us on the back foot/in danger.

I think it's also starting to become apparent that the opposition are specifically instructed to close him down once he attempts at bringing the ball forward as well. I'd wager that Hyam's weakness in this department is regularly identified by opposition performance analysts/managers in the match preparation process when coming up against us.

I think you have a point. The one thought I have is that when we’re in possession, for a right footer his starting position is too narrow so that when he brings the ball out it is out and across towards the touchline, putting emphasis on him making left footed passes. But he doesn’t. He needs to start wider so his body is open to the pitch and gives him more angles on his right.

Edit: and we’ll sign Jake Clarke-Salter in the summer anyway so it’s fine. Hyam can be backup across the three CB positions.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Have you been watching a different Hyam?

You must have been, he has 6 touches before he finally releases the ball to his left wing back, on to the wing backs wrong foot as they're pinned to the touchline.

I think Hyam is a reasonable defender but on the ball he's OK at best. He isn't a hoof merchant. Our best ball playing centre back is McFadz

 

[Speedies_Chips]

Have you been watching a different Hyam?

No. Seems it’s just you that thinks he is Franz Beckenbauer with the ball at his feet.

 

[ceetee]

So whatever the intent of the OP, the thread ends up as a debate on Hyam. It makes a change from a love fest on Walsh or a hate fest on Bakayoko which is where most threads seem to end up

 

[jordan210]

Gutted press. But still if they are paying him 90k how are they getting round FFP

 

[stevefloyd]

Hyam is not a good ball playing CB. He gets himself trapped on the left side touchline, gets closed down and ends up putting it out for a throw.

Hyam has been caught in 2 minds quite frequently just lately, he generally starts the game quite well but seems to lose fitness quickly as the game wears on, his out balls tend to be played blindly too

 

[shmmeee]

Absolute madness that was. Giving a lame duck like Bell an enhanced deal was on par with giving Bakayoko a new deal last summer.

Nobody gave Baka a new deal last year though.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Hyam has been caught in 2 minds quite frequently just lately, he generally starts the game quite well but seems to lose fitness quickly as the game wears on, his out balls tend to be played blindly too

I recommend he wears longer shorts then.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Gutted press. But still if they are paying him 90k how are they getting round FFP

Because a gambling company is putting up the wages

 

[Grendel]

Our league standing gives us value in terms of semi-guaranteed tv / league revenue, probable sponsorship income etc.

£8m? This year

Maybe, but to offset the cost of contracts is the guaranteed TV / EFL prize income, even if we were to be relegated for the next two seasons. It’s about £8m champ, £4m L1, £3m L2. (might be wrong).

If we’ve got a wage bill of £4m with average 2 years left then we still are in front.

I know that’s all very sketchy but it’s the league status that gives the “Golden Share” it’s value. How Otium value that, value the players and the rest of it means that any accounts are open to any scrutiny and don’t mean a lot.

This is the Ken Deliu argument

 

[hill83]

£8m?

Maybe

(might be wrong)

If

very sketchy

Sign me up m8

 

[Adge]

Nobody gave Baka a new deal last year though.

Have I missed something?

 

[shmmeee]

Have I missed something?

We triggered an extension in his existing deal

 

[Adge]

We triggered an extension in his existing deal

Well whatever way it was written into the contract then. Ok I’ll rephrase-the clause shouldn’t have been in there. 2 years in itself is enough to see if a punt on a player will pay off.

 

[BornSlippySkyBlue]

Because a gambling company is putting up the wages

I don’t get this at all. How does getting wages paid directly from a third party work? What’s to stop any club from saying to their sponsors “don’t sponsor us, just pay for someone’s wages” if it’s that simple to circumvent the FFP rules?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don’t get this at all. How does getting wages paid directly from a third party work? What’s to stop any club from saying to their sponsors “don’t sponsor us, just pay for someone’s wages” if it’s that simple to circumvent the FFP rules?

Basically they paid Derby a huge amount in sponsorship to cover Rooney’s salary in exchange for him wearing the number ‘32’ and plastering the company name everywhere.

 

[shmmeee]

Well whatever way it was written into the contract then. Ok I’ll rephrase-the clause shouldn’t have been in there. 2 years in itself is enough to see if a punt on a player will pay off.

Point was more that he’ll have been on peanuts compared to anyone we brought in.

 

[Barnsley]

It amuses me how much money clubs are having to throw about to be in a worse position than PNE, Luton, Barnsley, and next season yourselves and maybe one or two others. How shockingly shit must the people running Forest, Derby, Wensdeh, Brumingham, and QPR be, to be failing even when they’re cheating, how the fuck have these so called businesspeople become million&billion aires ?. I wouldn’t trust them with the kitty on a night out, I’d go to the bar for them.

 

[Adge]

Point was more that he’ll have been on peanuts compared to anyone we brought in.

Ah I see-fair point.

 

[mark82]

Well whatever way it was written into the contract then. Ok I’ll rephrase-the clause shouldn’t have been in there. 2 years in itself is enough to see if a punt on a player will pay off.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't write an extension clause into a players contract where you can. Gives the club flexibility.

 

[Sick Boy]

We are a league higher, have more revenue streams, more attractive proposition to investors, greater goodwill.

A club without a stadium in its home city is hardly attractive to investors, neither will be getting ripped off by a franchise rugby club to use their stadium.