Wasps losses and ricoh return catalyst (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Evo1883
- Start date
cc84cov
Well-Known Member
Us going back has slowed the process I still don’t see them here in another 5 years
cov donkey kick
Well-Known Member
That figure alone you can see the last year what its done to sporting clubs with big infrastructure and no fans, think City have not had losses anything like that paying rent at St. Andrews. Players wages general running expenses at Ryton off field staff so manageable.
With wasps money I think has been the underlining factor with city being back in our home.
With wasps money I think has been the underlining factor with city being back in our home.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Think the latest accounts only cover the first 3 months of lockdown so potentially much worse to come in the next set of accounts.
Colin Steins Smile
Well-Known Member
Wasps will face some serious challenges when they have to refinance the bonds.
skybluesam66
Well-Known Member
we got promotion at the right time, and covid came before we started spending silly
As such, we should have managed our books well
If we can stay up this year, and lockdown eases, we should be in a good position compared to some of our rivals going forwards
As such, we should have managed our books well
If we can stay up this year, and lockdown eases, we should be in a good position compared to some of our rivals going forwards
Our owners plan in my opinion is still the Ricoh and it is going to be a very long term plan. Whatever guise it takes be that an amalgamation, a takeover or waiting for wasps to move on. Our budget will be dependant on the ability of the academy to develop talent to sell on. Also the ability of the scouts to identify gems like Hamer to develop, showcase and sell on. I think we will be mainly fighting relegation or yo yo'ing between the championship and league 1. I just hope as all this plays out the owners continue down the current path of building relationships with fans, embracing the fans, keeping positive relationships with key partners. If all that happens most fans will accept developing exciting talent to sell on, as long as we see gradual progress and reinvestment as it happens. That's what I think we have seen over last couple of years.
Colin Steins Smile
Well-Known Member
Agree - our cost base is significantly lower than most clubs. We desperately need to stay up this season, so we can build on what's been developed.
Obviously, there are clubs in the Championship making use of maximising their loses over a three year cycle with the hope of big growth in income. That looks a very risky strategy and IF we can maintain our status we may have a better opportunity to compete economically in the longer term with other Championship clubs.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
That guy is literally a moron. I don't know how he gets any work.
The difference is mainly down to the CVC money that they received last year for selling shares in the league.
The difference is mainly down to the CVC money that they received last year for selling shares in the league.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
There's another self proclaimed expert in the comments saying its down to covid when this is, in the main, the pre-covid accounts.
The saddest part is Premiership Rugby, and professional rugby in general, is relatively new. They had the chance to look at decades of history and other professional sports and set themselves up in a way that is sustainable long term but they only have one club not running at a loss! The entire sports business plan seems to rely on a huge surge in popularity, they really have convinced themselves they're not far off equalling Premier League football!
Nick
Administrator
Yeah that's the only reason they showed a profit isn't it? If was a bit of a one off.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
I think they've been losing around £10m for a good few years.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Two questions for me. Is the refinancing going to be as easy as some make out. A newly moved Wasps proclaiming they will be the richest and most successful club in Europe is very different to where they're at now. Who is going to be rushing to put money in?
Also what happens when the owner runs out of money, which has been reported in the media may not be too far off. Will there be any willing buyers for Wasps? Leicester, who have the smallest losses in the league, only one club makes a profit, couldn't find a buyer and were eventually taken off the market. Who would want to buy a club struggling on the pitch with massive annual losses and a huge debt?
Colin Steins Smile
Well-Known Member
Agree - why would anyone invest in a failing business model, unless they can see an alternative strategy that could radically change the prospects of the club?
The success of the Exeter model is based on years of community engagement and a positive identity with the region. The later is something Wasps are obviously struggling with ....and from current loses they don't have time to build that....especially with Coventry Rugby Club having that identity.
Finally, is there really a big enough market for attendances to grow enough to make them self-sustaining? As has been stated by others on numerous occasions Wasps have relocated into an are where Cov Rugby, Leicester Tigers and to a lesser extent Worcester have built allegiances and a following with people in Coventry & Warwickshire.
skybluesam66
Well-Known Member
2019 excl Exceptional item Loss of 12.2m (with CCFC)
2020 Loss of 12.4m
Then we had Covid Losses xxxxx
Financing costs are already 4m. If they can refinance, they will be much higher next time i suspect
There is only 1 way this if going to end
2020 Loss of 12.4m
Then we had Covid Losses xxxxx
Financing costs are already 4m. If they can refinance, they will be much higher next time i suspect
There is only 1 way this if going to end
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
By tightening their belts on salaries does he mean not paying anybody because that's the only way they'll turn that around.
ceetee
Well-Known Member
Don't forget Northampton Saints. I am aware of several regular supporters who live in Warwickshire.
Colin Steins Smile
Well-Known Member
Sorry - forgot them.....you are right, especially for those people living across towards Rugby and Daventry.
This as just an ongoing saga does Wasps Rugby Club being in financial difficulties mean the Ricoh is too which i surmise is a different arm to the business.
My point of view is re. Wasps what will be will be, the vital thing for me at the moment is we are back to playing at the Ricoh we hopefully can build from that.
A couple of years ago I was talking to someone, a rugby person connected to Cov. Rugby reference Wasps who in conversation didn’t rule out them going back to London one day, wishful thinking for me but I can see it being possible with all the financial ramifications there is currently anything is possible, there are one or two football/sports grounds there that could be shared as one or two are now.
That doesn’t necessarily mean the Ricoh will be up for grabs it could be just another arm to their business model.
As I said the important thing is we are back at the Ricoh case of one step at a time.
My point of view is re. Wasps what will be will be, the vital thing for me at the moment is we are back to playing at the Ricoh we hopefully can build from that.
A couple of years ago I was talking to someone, a rugby person connected to Cov. Rugby reference Wasps who in conversation didn’t rule out them going back to London one day, wishful thinking for me but I can see it being possible with all the financial ramifications there is currently anything is possible, there are one or two football/sports grounds there that could be shared as one or two are now.
That doesn’t necessarily mean the Ricoh will be up for grabs it could be just another arm to their business model.
As I said the important thing is we are back at the Ricoh case of one step at a time.
Skybluemichael
Well-Known Member
I notice the value of the stadium down to 48.5 from 51mil
Skybluemichael
Well-Known Member
I don’t understand this, so how much debt are they in
skybluesam66
Well-Known Member
so looks like
48m for the Ricoh
offset by 47m long term liabilities
and then they have 27m short term assets and 50.5m short term liabilities
They are technically insolvent (see the net equity, which is in effect overdrawn by 22.5m - that is assuming you could get 48m for the Ricoh)
48m for the Ricoh
offset by 47m long term liabilities
and then they have 27m short term assets and 50.5m short term liabilities
They are technically insolvent (see the net equity, which is in effect overdrawn by 22.5m - that is assuming you could get 48m for the Ricoh)
Nick
Administrator
Standard wasps fan nonsense
Alkhen
Well-Known Member
yep think this is the new long game by SISU. fingers crossed
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Just another 20 years depreciation and it might get close to what they paid for it!
RegTheDonk
Well-Known Member
Were they still giving away loads of free tickets to try and get people through the doors and spend their cash in the bars etc?
If CWR and the Telegraph stopped kissing their arses they'd only have to open half of one stand.
If CWR and the Telegraph stopped kissing their arses they'd only have to open half of one stand.
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
This is where it’s been hazy as to the security instrument on the initial bond issue. It seemed to be suggested that the long leasehold of the Ricoh was security for bond holders but there is also talk that in the event of insolvency the lease defaults back to CCC.
If you’re talking about after the maturity of the current bond scheme then they could do that but they won’t.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
They'd be mad to take on Wasps' debt in order to get the Ricoh. We'd end up paying £35m for something that would only fetch £10m at very most on the open market.