European breakaway league (6 Viewers)

[tisza]

In an ideal world we'd limit loans to clubs, but de-restrict grants too. If a wealthy owner wants to give a club £eleventy billion they're welcome, it's when they want it back or take the ground as collateral, that's the danger. So... you need to protect grounds too...

Clubs have to sort out their spending. You can't have these situations like Derby & Wednesday where reckless spending led to all the shenangins over ground sales.
Football needs a properly enforced salary cap based on income & a limit on how much owners can loan clubs. Grants are should be okay.
No-one can look at football wages and think it's okay. Still got Championship clubs spending over 100% of income on wages (not allowing for this COVID year).

 

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[Mcbean]

Someone in the US made some money yesterday - shares in Manure rocketed for a period !

 

[Paxman II]

From the off I always thought it was a storm in a teacup, used as leverage. Can't quite believe the outrage that poured in so quickly from everyone and anyone. Managers didn't even know. Who agrees to play a second league mid week without consulting the club as a whole, and the managers? Well it's dead in the water now...move on, nothing to see here.

 

[Sick Boy]

Me and my dad both got separated at Peterborough when it was terracing a few years back. Think John Stead scored. Similar thing, we were in the middle but somehow both ended up at the front.

Edit: “a few years” it was 11 years ago. Fuck sake

Hahaha I was there as well, we were on the verge of the play-offs and full of optimism...I don’t think we won again for the rest of the season.

 

[shmmeee]

It's unrealistic to think that clubs will just give up a 51% stake. Not going to happen.

Not with that attitude. We’d have said it’s unrealistic that big clubs to cancel their super league plans under pressure.

Owners will do what they have to to continue playing in the league.

 

[SBAndy]

Clubs have to sort out their spending. You can't have these situations like Derby & Wednesday where reckless spending led to all the shenangins over ground sales.
Football needs a properly enforced salary cap based on income & a limit on how much owners can loan clubs. Grants are should be okay.
No-one can look at football wages and think it's okay. Still got Championship clubs spending over 100% of income on wages (not allowing for this COVID year).

Was thinking yesterday about this and trying to come up with ideas. One of the biggest arguments against the salary cap as a %age of income is that it starts to lock in the current status quo of clubs, with clubs like us lower down the leagues suffering a reduced chance to get to the top of the game (not that I think it’s overly realistic anyway). Then you look at a flat-fee salary cap, and the argument is that clubs like Sunderland shouldn’t be made to match Accrington’s wage restrictions.

Could there be a compromise in between the two? Say a percentage of income, up to a maximum threshold of £X. For example, the PL could have 75% of income with a maximum of £50m, meaning that if a club generated income of £50m they would be capped at £37.5m but conversely if a club generates £100m they’re still capped at £50m. Numbers of course wouldn’t be like this, but yeah. Could even make the absolute threshold comparable to the average league turnover, or somesuch.

Big thing around asset protection (i.e. no selling stadia to flour rules) is to convert to CIC ownership which will not happen under the current stewardship of most clubs. Maybe an aspiration.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

ATLETICO MADRID, INTER MILAN LEAVE SUPER LEAGUE

La Liga club Atletico Madrid and Serie A club Inter Milan have become the seventh and eighth clubs to withdraw from the European Super League, following the six Premier League teams.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Was thinking yesterday about this and trying to come up with ideas. One of the biggest arguments against the salary cap as a %age of income is that it starts to lock in the current status quo of clubs, with clubs like us lower down the leagues suffering a reduced chance to get to the top of the game (not that I think it’s overly realistic anyway). Then you look at a flat-fee salary cap, and the argument is that clubs like Sunderland shouldn’t be made to match Accrington’s wage restrictions.

Could there be a compromise in between the two? Say a percentage of income, up to a maximum threshold of £X. For example, the PL could have 75% of income with a maximum of £50m, meaning that if a club generated income of £50m they would be capped at £37.5m but conversely if a club generates £100m they’re still capped at £50m. Numbers of course wouldn’t be like this, but yeah. Could even make the absolute threshold comparable to the average league turnover, or somesuch.

Big thing around asset protection (i.e. no selling stadia to flour rules) is to convert to CIC ownership which will not happen under the current stewardship of most clubs. Maybe an aspiration.

It's certainly an avenue worth exploring. Perhaps it could be about grassroots funding - whatever you pay out in wages (capped by % of income) you have to pay, say 20% of that to a grassroots fund to distribute lower down. Could be done for every league. Even make it progressive like income tax, either by league (i.e. 10% L2, 20% L1, 30% Champ 40% PL) or by actual wage bill (i.e. 10% up to £10m, 25% up to £100m, 40% over £100m). Of course some fucker will try and loophole their way around the spirit of it and pay players but not have it classified as salaries.

 

[chiefdave]

ATLETICO MADRID, INTER MILAN LEAVE SUPER LEAGUE

La Liga club Atletico Madrid and Serie A club Inter Milan have become the seventh and eighth clubs to withdraw from the European Super League, following the six Premier League teams.

Some confusion about Barca as well with some reports saying they were never actually confirmed as in it and only that they'd put it to a member vote which would almost certainly be rejected.

 

[chiefdave]

Was thinking yesterday about this and trying to come up with ideas. One of the biggest arguments against the salary cap as a %age of income is that it starts to lock in the current status quo of clubs, with clubs like us lower down the leagues suffering a reduced chance to get to the top of the game (not that I think it’s overly realistic anyway). Then you look at a flat-fee salary cap, and the argument is that clubs like Sunderland shouldn’t be made to match Accrington’s wage restrictions.

Could there be a compromise in between the two? Say a percentage of income, up to a maximum threshold of £X. For example, the PL could have 75% of income with a maximum of £50m, meaning that if a club generated income of £50m they would be capped at £37.5m but conversely if a club generates £100m they’re still capped at £50m. Numbers of course wouldn’t be like this, but yeah. Could even make the absolute threshold comparable to the average league turnover, or somesuch.

Big thing around asset protection (i.e. no selling stadia to flour rules) is to convert to CIC ownership which will not happen under the current stewardship of most clubs. Maybe an aspiration.

Salary caps work brilliantly, at least in the NHL which is the only North American sport I follow, as you've never far away from being a contender. Problem here is we don't have a flat league structure, we have the pyramid. Lets be honest if you were starting from scratch now and suggested 92 professional clubs across 4 divisions people would think you were mad.

They way you'd have to work it was different salary floors and caps for each division and have those as a requirement for promotion the same way your ground has to be a certain standard. If you can't meet the requirements you can't be promoted.

Percentage of income is much easier to implement but will just mean the top clubs moving further and further ahead of everyone else.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Some confusion about Barca as well with some reports saying they were never actually confirmed as in it and only that they'd put it to a member vote which would almost certainly be rejected.

Think we will see lots of clubs playing the blame game now, saying it was so and so idea and we only went along with it out of fear of being left behind

 

[Barnsley]

Have they been punished yet ? Didn’t take this long to fuck Wigan over last season, Come on EPL/FA/FIFA chop chop.

 

[mrtrench]

Farewell to the European Super League (ESL). Can this now be replaced by an EML (European Mediocre League)? It would be great to see Morcambe playing Italian minnows US Folgore Caratese in a high-stakes end of season match to decide 9th place.

 

[hill83]

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Inter now also walked, leaving a gang of three, so one team gets a holiday each week. Superb.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Loads of talk now that you can't punish the clubs as it only punishes the fans.

Fuck off with that, how many teams, including us, have had to deal with shit because of our owners.

 

[skybluesam66]

i think it will end up as Real Madrid and Barcelona - they will be like the harlem Globetrotters

 

[AOM]

Not sure why the remaining teams are still hanging in there? Are they still hoping for some kind of compromise?

 

[TomRad85]

Loads of talk now that you can't punish the clubs as it only punishes the fans.

Fuck off with that, how many teams, including us, have had to deal with shit because of our owners.

Utter nonsense. The Italians have relegated Juve and Fiorentina in the non too distant past. The Scottish did likewise to Rangers. Lower league clubs get fucked constantly... basically they are saying they are spineless.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[SBAndy]

Loads of talk now that you can't punish the clubs as it only punishes the fans.

Fuck off with that, how many teams, including us, have had to deal with shit because of our owners.

Stuff like this annoys me. There isn’t a fat lot you can do to get at the owners without the club or fans being affected at all.

 

[edgy]

We all know nothing will happen to any of these ESL elopers.

The greedy 6 hold far too much power within the PL brand.

 

[edgy]

and another point. It wasn't the fans who stopped this, like many are romanticising about. It was the possibility of the said clubs taking hit financially from the governing bodies, the talk of government legislation and being excluded from other competitions that they milk money from.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

If it's to be throughout English football then we can't have the Sky Blue Trust anywhere near us though.

Quite right. What we need is a group initiated by Fisher and Boddy.

 

[MalcSB]

We all know nothing will happen to any of these ESL elopers.

The greedy 6 hold far too much power within the PL brand.

Perhaps the other clubs will have woken up and smelled the coffee and work together to keep these 6 clubs away from positions of influence.

 

[jordan210]

Would be nice if some of these big sponsors now looking to part ways with some of the bigger clubs. Would sponsor multiple smaller ones instead

 

[Sbarcher]

Well, there goes our chance to play Juve and Barcelona!

 

[shmmeee]

Clubs have to sort out their spending. You can't have these situations like Derby & Wednesday where reckless spending led to all the shenangins over ground sales.
Football needs a properly enforced salary cap based on income & a limit on how much owners can loan clubs. Grants are should be okay.
No-one can look at football wages and think it's okay. Still got Championship clubs spending over 100% of income on wages (not allowing for this COVID year).

If you link the cap to income you’ll create loopholes big enough to drive a bus through. An absolute cap per division is the only way

 

[clint van damme]

Loads of talk now that you can't punish the clubs as it only punishes the fans.

Fuck off with that, how many teams, including us, have had to deal with shit because of our owners.

Everytime they deduct points it punishes the fans for their owners actions.
These teams need punishing severely or it will be back on the table again next time they try to wring more money out of the current competitions.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

and another point. It wasn't the fans who stopped this, like many are romanticising about. It was the possibility of the said clubs taking hit financially from the governing bodies, the talk of government legislation and being excluded from other competitions that they milk money from.

Absolutely and also the realisation that players would leave if they were excluded from domestic leagues and internationals.

 

[tisza]

If you link the cap to income you’ll create loopholes big enough to drive a bus through. An absolute cap per division is the only way

Agree if you're just doing it in the English Leagues but these caps need to be applicable to all those within UEFA. Pl aren't going to take on caps that disadvantage them in European competition or in competing for players. Flat caps across Europe difficult due to varying tax regimes for example

 

[chiefdave]

Flat caps across Europe difficult due to varying tax regimes for example

Not an issue in North American sports where tax rates vary state to state, with some states even having 0% tax rates. Two options, either as in North America the cap is the cap irrespective of tax and you just have to deal with it or you calculate the cap using players net salary.

 

[shmmeee]

Agree if you're just doing it in the English Leagues but these caps need to be applicable to all those within UEFA. Pl aren't going to take on caps that disadvantage them in European competition or in competing for players. Flat caps across Europe difficult due to varying tax regimes for example

Got to be done though. It’s the only solution, some kind of FIFA or at least UEFA cap put in place.

It’s not working as is for anyone. The rich clubs are all egging each other on to spend billions they don’t have, forcing the cost up for everyone else to spend millions they don’t have.

Maybe a Champions League level wage cap? Then top divisions can work down from there. I don’t know, but limiting spending is the only way the game will survive. There’ll always be some billionaire twat happy to break the bank so his team wins.

Tax point is reasonable but doesn’t seem beyond the wit of man.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Well I hope the gov can put some legislation in place to keep things a bit tighter. Dare say the PL are breathing a sigh of relief too and would actually be on board if it protects them.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Fair-weather football fans appal me. But sooner or later they will get their Super League | Adrian Chiles

It was fun watching the farce unfold this week, but the sad truth is that the armchair supporters are where the money is

www.theguardian.com

Have to agree.

 

[tisza]

So Perez finally admits they've been working on this Super League for 3 years. They've sat there in PL meetings etc. and said nothing. Deceitful SOBs.