What's your political compass? (12 Viewers)

[Deleted member 11652]

Its self reported you lemon.

Do you need me to break the crayons out so you get my point?

Yeah fantastic. I hope that makes you feel better when the Tories win every election in the next 20 years. @Ccfcisparks what’s that really old song shmmee should listen to? Dry your eyes is it?

 

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[Ccfcisparks]

Yeah fantastic. I hope that makes you feel better when the Tories win every election in the next 20 years. @Ccfcisparks what’s that really old song shmmee should listen to? Dry your eyes is it?

Hahaha Boosh it aint that old, it was released in both of our life times!

 

[Deleted member 11652]

Hahaha Boosh it aint that old, it was released in both of our life times!

2004!? Did you have it on tape or vinyl?

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah fantastic. I hope that makes you feel better when the Tories win every election in the next 20 years. @Ccfcisparks what’s that really old song shmmee should listen to? Dry your eyes is it?

OK buddy, good luck tying your shoes this morning.

 

[Terry_dactyl]

You’ve deflected a lot but I think you’re saying you don’t want to abolish the NHS. That’s a very left wing position globally. It puts you well to the left of most people.

That’s my point, it’s not some “haha you should vote Labour” gotcha, just a reminder that whats “right wing” in the U.K. is still pretty socialist.

As I showed earlier, pretty much every voter in the U.K. is in the left wing authoritarian space, we’re just arguing over which corner of the corner we’re in. It’s the Labour Party internal squabbling writ large.

If you want to do it the other way, even the most liberal lefty is still pretty authoritarian even though they don’t like to think that way.

Years ago, I worked with an Iranian bloke who described Britain as Socialist Country. I questioned him on this and he said look at the NHS, Benefits system, where we were working (a local authority hostel for the homeless), and he listed loads of other things about our society.
I’d never thought of it as such. While we’re not all waking up to the Internationale every morning and putting on our hobnail boots to work at the collective farm as part of our glorious party’s 5 year plan. I think it’s fair to say there are strong elements of socialism in our society that we take for granted.

 

[Grendel]

Have you actually said anything relevant ever?

 

[Deleted member 11652]

OK buddy, good luck tying your shoes this morning.

I can just wear sliders mate and you’ll still be crying at Labour losing all the time

 

[shmmeee]

Years ago, I worked with an Iranian bloke who described Britain as Socialist Country. I questioned him on this and he said look at the NHS, Benefits system, where we were working (a local authority hostel for the homeless), and he listed loads of other things about our society.
I’d never thought of it as such. While we’re not all waking up to the Internationale every morning and putting on our hobnail boots to work at the collective farm as part of our glorious party’s 5 year plan. I think it’s fair to say there are strong elements of socialism in our society that we take for granted.

100%, but it’s not seen as socialism. Partly because kids today like Boosh clearly got all their polticial education from Seppo neckbeards on YouTube.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Not sure how reliable it is, it seems more relevant to the Americans.
We all know that @Earlsdon_Skyblue1 wouldn’t have even registered on there if it was accurate.

You bitch.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

2004!? Did you have it on tape or vinyl?

LOL I would have only been 7. Think I would rather have watched Ben 10 at that age.

 

[fatso]

 

[fatso]

View attachment 20241

Bit suprised tbf, looks like IM the looney after all!

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Data is great just a shame the votes don’t say the same ey? I’m baffled as to why the loudest in these threads think they’re the majority despite elections and referendums consistently proving them wrong

Marketing and promotion. Tories do it better. Take one or two things that have some sort of positive effect for people or just would go down well and just repeat it with a catchy slogan. Ignore all the stuff that isn't so palatable. Crucially, make sure you have most of the media on your side to toe the line and not bring up the shit bits while dissecting the other parties with a fine tooth comb.

Meanwhile, the left tries to (or has to) explain policies and the average person just doesn't pay attention. They lose interest and drift off.

Also, Conservative, as the name tells you, don't want to change too much. That appeals to people because we don't like too much change and upheaval even if it works in our favour. So keeping things roughly as they are is a much easier sell than offering something a bit different, and a lot easier than radical change like the Greens etc propose.

If instead of putting an X in a box with the party name/candidate you instead were given a short blind survey of actual manifesto policies that you had to pick your preferred option I think we'd see a very interesting difference in what people want to how people vote.

 

[Cityandproud87]

100%, but it’s not seen as socialism. Partly because kids today like Boosh clearly got all their polticial education from Seppo neckbeards on YouTube.

Need some tissues for all the crying this morning?

 

[shmmeee]

Need some tissues for all the crying this morning?

Your Mum finally washed your wank sock and you can spare a few?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

That is total rubbish - most capitalist countries have free healthcare for many elements of society - and of course its not actually free

Exactly. Even the full-on capitalist countries aren't actually that capitalist. That was an example of what a truly capitalist nation would do - if you couldn't afford it you wouldn't get it.

Of course it isn't free, but those who could not afford it themselves have access to it helped by contributions from those who can. Y'know - socialism.

 

[Cityandproud87]

Your Mum finally washed your wank sock and you can spare a few?

Biggest goon on the forum you are.

 

[shmmeee]

Biggest goon on the forum you are.

Do I get a prize?

 

[fatso]

Marketing and promotion. Tories do it better. Take one or two things that have some sort of positive effect for people or just would go down well and just repeat it with a catchy slogan. Ignore all the stuff that isn't so palatable. Crucially, make sure you have most of the media on your side to toe the line and not bring up the shit bits while dissecting the other parties with a fine tooth comb.

Meanwhile, the left tries to (or has to) explain policies and the average person just doesn't pay attention. They lose interest and drift off.

Also, Conservative, as the name tells you, don't want to change too much. That appeals to people because we don't like too much change and upheaval even if it works in our favour. So keeping things roughly as they are is a much easier sell than offering something a bit different, and a lot easier than radical change like the Greens etc propose.

If instead of putting an X in a box with the party name/candidate you instead were given a short blind survey of actual manifesto policies that you had to pick your preferred option I think we'd see a very interesting difference in what people want to how people vote.

 

[shmmeee]

He’s right to an extent, but it’s like whining that McDonald’s get all the customers because they spend on marketing and finding out what people want to eat and positioning themselves so they’re the easy option rather than everyone loving your homemade food stall that you refuse to tell anyone about (because that would be selling out to the man) and scream at them if they mispronounce the weird cheese on your sandwiches.

The Tories actually try and win elections and make out they like people, nothing is stopping Labour doing that too (OK the mass membership is stopping us, but nothing in theory).

View attachment 20242

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Be more specific, please.

- Do you agree that state-funded healthcare free at the point of use is desirable? Yes
- Do you agree that nationalised health care is superior to a competitive marketplace? No
- Does the worship of the NHS make you angry, especially in the light of some terrible service you've experienced? Yes


You're not going to like this, but I'll say it anyway. Many socialists are people who feel the same way about outcomes as many centrists, but they just haven't appreciated that life is more nuanced than they think... and that state control of services is a very sub-optimal. The NHS is a proxy for socialism IMO, which is why it gets venerated so much by people pushing a socialist agenda.

Slightly off topic but before we had a public provided fire service they had a competitive marketplace of private enterprises that you could insure yourself with.

So if a fire started and you were with a particular fire service there could be another fire service outside who'd do nothing because you weren't insured with them whereas your fire service could be halfway across town. Ifyou wanted them to put it out you'd have to pay them a higher fee as a one-off. If you were insured they'd want proof of membership (which obviously in a fire you're not thinking about) and until you could prove it they wouldn't put out the fire. It was also widely rumoured some crews would start fires and just 'happen to be in the area' to put it out.

This is why the fire service was invented,

Privatised health care that EVERYONE would need access to without a fall back. High demand = high cost. I've already mentioned about doctors prescribing stuff they don't need or having unnecessary tests done cos they get paid. Even basic drugs in the US cost hundreds of dollars, some even thousands. Stuff like surgery runs into tens of thousands of dollars. Courses of chemo can be into six figures. So if everyone were reliant on private healthcare for the vast majority if you got cancer you may as well just say goodbye to your family and prepare your funeral and will. That's if they even got it diagnosed because they'd not be able to afford the tests or it'd have to be so bad before they decided to spend the money on them it'd be so far advanced as to be either incurable or the treatment so expensive it would be a waste of time.

Imagine being hit by a car just outside a hospital and for them to say "he's not a member with this hospital - he'll have to go to the one he's insured with 30 miles away." That's how a truly competitive marketplace works.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

He’s right to an extent, but it’s like whining that McDonald’s get all the customers because they spend on marketing and finding out what people want to eat and positioning themselves so they’re the easy option rather than everyone loving your homemade food stall that you refuse to tell anyone about (because that would be selling out to the man) and scream at them if they mispronounce the weird cheese on your sandwiches.

The Tories actually try and win elections and make out they like people, nothing is stopping Labour doing that too (OK the mass membership is stopping us, but nothing in theory).

Exactly. If you read what I said it's a far more scathing attack on Labour than anything because they're shit at winning elections. Meanwhile it's praise for the Tories who are very good at it.

Also with the McDonalds analogy. It's widely considered the food is cheap, crap and not very good for you. We'd be a lot healthier if we left stuff like it alone. Yet it's going to get way more business than the salad bar next door.

 

[fatso]

He’s right to an extent, but it’s like whining that McDonald’s get all the customers because they spend on marketing and finding out what people want to eat and positioning themselves so they’re the easy option rather than everyone loving your homemade food stall that you refuse to tell anyone about (because that would be selling out to the man) and scream at them if they mispronounce the weird cheese on your sandwiches.

The Tories actually try and win elections and make out they like people, nothing is stopping Labour doing that too (OK the mass membership is stopping us, but nothing in theory).

It's got nothing to do with marketing at all, that's just labour supporters continuing to live in denial.
It has far more to do with people who were nowhere near fit to govern.
Eg, Diane Abbott, every time she opened her mouth, Labour's fiscal economic policy just disintegrated before our eyes!
As for Corbyn, to this very day we have absolutely no idea what his stance on Brexit or the EU is, and yet this was a major issue in the
Election, his clear support for he IRA and his friendship with Gerry Adam's and his repeated refusal to condemn acts of terror perpetrated against innocent people didnt help either, (I could bang on and on)
But the point is these clowns at the top of the party, killed it, and Starmer has the hardest job in political leadership to turn it round.

I'm well aware that there is shit loads wrong with Boris and his cronies, but the fact is, that Labour made themselves un electable, and presented the tories with the biggest "open goal" in living political history.

And that's Fuck All to do with marketing.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It's got nothing to do with marketing at all, that's just labour supporters continuing to live in denial.
It has far more to do with people who were nowhere near fit to govern.
Eg, Diane Abbott, every time she opened her mouth, Labour's fiscal economic policy just disintegrated before our eyes!
As for Corbyn, to this very day we have absolutely no idea what his stance on Brexit or the EU is, and yet this was a major issue in the
Election, his clear support for he IRA and his friendship with Gerry Adam's and his repeated refusal to condemn acts of terror perpetrated against innocent people didnt help either, (I could bang on and on)
But the point is these clowns at the top of the party, killed it, and Starmer has the hardest job in political leadership to turn it round.

I'm well aware that there is shit loads wrong with Boris and his cronies, but the fact is, that Labour made themselves un electable, and presented the tories with the biggest "open goal" in living political history.

And that's Fuck All to do with marketing.

Unlike Johnson, Hancock, Raab, Patel, Gove, Truss, JRM.... even darling Rishi is already looking out of his depth.

 

[shmmeee]

Slightly off topic but before we had a public provided fire service they had a competitive marketplace of private enterprises that you could insure yourself with.

So if a fire started and you were with a particular fire service there could be another fire service outside who'd do nothing because you weren't insured with them whereas your fire service could be halfway across town. Ifyou wanted them to put it out you'd have to pay them a higher fee as a one-off. If you were insured they'd want proof of membership (which obviously in a fire you're not thinking about) and until you could prove it they wouldn't put out the fire. It was also widely rumoured some crews would start fires and just 'happen to be in the area' to put it out.

This is why the fire service was invented,

Privatised health care that EVERYONE would need access to without a fall back. High demand = high cost. I've already mentioned about doctors prescribing stuff they don't need or having unnecessary tests done cos they get paid. Even basic drugs in the US cost hundreds of dollars, some even thousands. Stuff like surgery runs into tens of thousands of dollars. Courses of chemo can be into six figures. So if everyone were reliant on private healthcare for the vast majority if you got cancer you may as well just say goodbye to your family and prepare your funeral and will. That's if they even got it diagnosed because they'd not be able to afford the tests or it'd have to be so bad before they decided to spend the money on them it'd be so far advanced as to be either incurable or the treatment so expensive it would be a waste of time.

Imagine being hit by a car just outside a hospital and for them to say "he's not a member with this hospital - he'll have to go to the one he's insured with 30 miles away." That's how a truly competitive marketplace works.

Saw one of the worst US healthcare stories on Twitter the other day: woman charged $800+ for the phone call from an EMT to say her son had died. Just mind blowing.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Unlike Johnson, Hancock, Raab, Patel, Gove, Truss, JRM.... even darling Rishi is already looking out of his depth.

You can keep denying it, and through that course you will see Labour lose more and more votes.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Saw one of the worst US healthcare stories on Twitter the other day: woman charged $800+ for the phone call from an EMT to say her son had died. Just mind blowing.

It's harrowing. Watched one of John Oliver's pieces a while back and it's just horrifying that's what we're being led towards.

 

[shmmeee]

It's got nothing to do with marketing at all, that's just labour supporters continuing to live in denial.
It has far more to do with people who were nowhere near fit to govern.
Eg, Diane Abbott, every time she opened her mouth, Labour's fiscal economic policy just disintegrated before our eyes!
As for Corbyn, to this very day we have absolutely no idea what his stance on Brexit or the EU is, and yet this was a major issue in the
Election, his clear support for he IRA and his friendship with Gerry Adam's and his repeated refusal to condemn acts of terror perpetrated against innocent people didnt help either, (I could bang on and on)
But the point is these clowns at the top of the party, killed it, and Starmer has the hardest job in political leadership to turn it round.

I'm well aware that there is shit loads wrong with Boris and his cronies, but the fact is, that Labour made themselves un electable, and presented the tories with the biggest "open goal" in living political history.

And that's Fuck All to do with marketing.

Except it is. You bring up Diane Abbott because of one interview but I could reel off Tories who have made similar gaffes (Patel, Hancock, Javid off the top of my head). The current government is mostly failed shysters. Hancock and his dodgy online business, Johnson constantly sacked for ineptitude, etc etc.

Of course politics is marketing. Getting your message out, showing people you align with their values, etc. It’s not a dirty word. It’s the literal aim of the game.

Not putting the likes of Abbott up as your representative is also marketing. She might be quite talented (not doing this again but she’s probably better educated than anyone in this thread and certainly more accomplished in her field - and no I don’t rate her personally) but she comes across terribly. The Tories would’ve stuck her in a closet like they did with JRM during the election campaign, not put her on TV. Marketing.

 

[Evo1883]

You are in the top right?

No I said it before I did it

 

[shmmeee]

You can keep denying it, and through that course you will see Labour lose more and more votes.

It’s possible to accept Labour are poor without fawning over the bunch of losers and chancers that make up the current cabinet.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You can keep denying it, and through that course you will see Labour lose more and more votes.

Are you saying those people are competent? Cos the actions since their election would massively suggest not.

I'm not denying anything. I've said Labour are shit at winning elections. They fucked up the last GE royally, esp regarding Brexit. I'm not saying they're absolutely stocked with talent either. The people in denial seem to be those that think the Tories are doing a decent job actually in office.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Just done the mean avg so far
L-R -4.76
L-A -4.48

Only three people are on the right - Grendel, TomRad and Trench
Only two are authoritarian - Marty and Bugsy.

Going by that I'm slightly to the left of average and a bit more liberal. Which is where I'd expect to be.

 

[clint van damme]

Be more specific, please.

- Do you agree that state-funded healthcare free at the point of use is desirable? Yes
- Do you agree that nationalised health care is superior to a competitive marketplace? No
- Does the worship of the NHS make you angry, especially in the light of some terrible service you've experienced? Yes


You're not going to like this, but I'll say it anyway. Many socialists are people who feel the same way about outcomes as many centrists, but they just haven't appreciated that life is more nuanced than they think... and that state control of services is a very sub-optimal. The NHS is a proxy for socialism IMO, which is why it gets venerated so much by people pushing a socialist agenda.

I don't think the NHS is a proxy for socialism. I just think people fear the alternative which is the American model.

There are some very good insurance based private health care systems around but I don't think they're the models we'd follow so people are right to be protective of the NHS for all its flaws.

 

[Otis]

Typical SBT. Starts off trying to deduce everyone's political compass and ends up with people smashing the compass in order to give other people the needle.

 

[Evo1883]

Started off so well in this thread