The Thorn issue. (7 Viewers)

[hitmanhearns]

Let´s cut the bullshit. Everyone involved with this club wants AT to succeed even the most critical.

I think it is very,very healthy for the club that we have fans who believe that there is something that´s not quite right on the sidelines.
Thorn has the worst win record in almost 100 years of city managers-criticism of him is a sign of health and realism-not hate.

Belief IN him to succeed is positive.

He was undermined in the relegation season no question about it.

He must be judged fair and by results as we kick off this season. There is no room for excuses as we have one of the strongest squads by far in the division.

Personally I think with Mick McCarthy (who would never come here I know, and yes, is a dinosaur) or any other prolific manager, we would walk this division. Sheff W were clever to get Dave Jones,they finally got the idea. They will be around the playoffs next season as Jones` teams always are.

I fear there is very little chance of promotion under Thorn, mainly on away results that were the worst in the entire football league system- and they won´t change dramatically in 2 months of friendlies I can almost guarantee you that.
But most of all I think Thorn knows he´s on thin ice and the "just dont loose I want this job"-mentality will shine thru on the pitch when we really need a brash, all in, clear direction from the sidelines of how to attack this division.
Thorn, to me, is still, on a personal level, trying to find out if he even can cut it as a manager, this is a recipe for disaster.

But he must be given the chance and should remain with the club in a scouting position if he fails.

I officially draw the line in the sand at 10 games. But think i will know after 4.

Meh...

 

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[Gaz]

Wow !
The words Mick McCarthy and prolific manager in the same sentence.

My problem with this 'Thorn has the worst win record' argument is that the managers didn't all have the same budgets and squad strength so how can there win records be compared with each others.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Please God no, not Mad Mick! He's a dinosaur. And I don't know about "one of the strongest squads in the division"-many of the new players are unknown quantities, and the ones I've seen so far look crap. But Thorn is bound to take the brunt of the criticism as we are seen as a big club at this level. He isn't inspiring any confidence in me any longer, but I hope it all clicks against Yeovil and my fears are brushed aside. If it doesn't, lets go for a proven lower-league manager, someone up-and-coming. Try and find the next O'Neill or Lambert, not go for a hasbeen/never-was figure. McCarthy would be far too much like Reid for my liking.

 

[hitmanhearns]

Please God no, not Mad Mick! He's a dinosaur. And I don't know about "one of the strongest squads in the division"-many of the new players are unknown quantities, and the ones I've seen so far look crap. But Thorn is bound to take the brunt of the criticism as we are seen as a big club at this level. He isn't inspiring any confidence in me any longer, but I hope it all clicks against Yeovil and my fears are brushed aside. If it doesn't, lets go for a proven lower-league manager, someone up-and-coming. Try and find the next O'Neill or Lambert, not go for a hasbeen/never-was figure. McCarthy would be far too much like Reid for my liking.

Yep that´s how deaperate I have become, when the McCarthy option sounds appetizing for a McCarthy disliker such as myself. I agree totally with the up and coming lower league manager idea, but we need to get out of here, lets save that idea til we´re back in the championship and can attract possible uncut diamonds- and yes McCarthy is a dinosaur and not for the future but for a season or two he´d, by his record, prob would get us up from the 3rd division-I deffo would take him over thorn right now. McCarthy would btw be the most succesful manager we´ve ever had when it comes to promotions....that says a lot of the previous ones.

As for the squad- on paper we should have one of the strongest but I dont think our future league postion will reflect that.

 

[hitmanhearns]

Wow !
The words Mick McCarthy and prolific manager in the same sentence.

My problem with this 'Thorn has the worst win record' argument is that the managers didn't all have the same budgets and squad strength so how can there win records be compared with each others.

I think the "thorn has the worst win record for a 100 yrs" line is a pretty loud alam bell.

And it´s still ringing.

Snooze?

 

[stupot07]

We couldn't afford McCarthy's wages so absolutely no chance

 

[@richh87]

I think the "thorn has the worst win record for a 100 yrs" line is a pretty loud alam bell.

And it´s still ringing.

Snooze?

I think a "SISU are the worst owners in our entire history" line should set off more alarm bells.

Ooh, free transfers we've never heard of to form the spine of a team that's lost Keogh, Cranie and Clingan. Thanks SISU?!

We are Coventry City, even being in this division is an embarrassment. SISU condemned us to relegation by ripping our squad apart and I will never forgive them.

We can't judge this squad as the strongest in the division; we've no idea what the new players are like - and as for the ones that got us relegated - well, say no more.

 

[Diehard Si]

I agree. Last season the squad was torn apart and not patched up.

This season it has been patched up, but how good are the replacements? It will take them time to gel. We need to be a little patient.

 

[Astute]

I think the "thorn has the worst win record for a 100 yrs" line is a pretty loud alam bell.

And it´s still ringing.

Snooze?

I find it hard to believe that we don't have WUM's on here that say AT done much worse with a squad everyone admitted was poor and too small than managers that had players in recent years like King, Westwood, Turner and in fact many more players I can't be bothered to list that have gone onto better things and we still ended up near the bottom of the table.

 

[ClarrieB]

I agree. Last season the squad was torn apart and not patched up.

This season it has been patched up, but how good are the replacements? It will take them time to gel. We need to be a little patient.

sounds llike preparing for future excuse making to me

 

[ClarrieB]

I find it hard to believe that we don't have WUM's on here that say AT done much worse with a squad everyone admitted was poor and too small than managers that had players in recent years like King, Westwood, Turner and in fact many more players I can't be bothered to list that have gone onto better things and we still ended up near the bottom of the table.

yes yes...but what good things has he done...?

 

[Gaz]

sounds llike preparing for future excuse making to me

Thorn hater

 

[@richh87]

sounds llike preparing for future excuse making to me

Sounds like someone who can't see the woods for the trees to me.

 

[ClarrieB]

Thorn hater

Resorting to childishness - very telling.

 

[ClarrieB]

Sounds like someone who can't see the woods for the trees to me.

Your saying that I can't see the wood for the Trees lol, let's see how it goes shall we - where do you think we will finish this season again?

 

[Macca]

Can t we give this a rest? This argument is about 8 months too late and the chances of agreement are nil. The damage has been done and actually the whole archaic crazy gang method might work in this pub league. Why not wait and see eh? How I hate the closed season

 

[Astute]

yes yes...but what good things has he done...?

When AT took over we were playing the worse style of play I have ever seen us do week in week out. It was bad enough at the start of the season when we got a couple of lucky wins. We made it into the top 6 giving us false hopes. Then we went into freefall once our opponents worked out how to play against us. When AT took over we were suddenly plaaying the way most fans wanted is to, and we went from losing just about every game to only losing 3 in the last 10.

It can't happen now, but I would have loved to see what AT could have done with the squad he had ripped apart on him to be replaced with youth players before they were ready.

 

[Gaz]

Resorting to childishness - very telling.

Haha that's the pot calling the kettle black

 

[Grendel]

Wow !
The words Mick McCarthy and prolific manager in the same sentence.

My problem with this 'Thorn has the worst win record' argument is that the managers didn't all have the same budgets and squad strength so how can there win records be compared with each others.

That's funny. McCarthy's management record of 2 football league championships is not good enough apparently. He has managed under resourced teams in the top flight and a nation that is never going to be a major force in world football. So on that basis I would assume that the win ration is similar to Thorn's - is it? No it's twice Thorn's. The real funny thing is the notion he would even consider a club like us to manage - not a chance.

 

[Macca]

When AT took over we were playing the worse style of play I have ever seen us do week in week out. It was bad enough at the start of the season when we got a couple of lucky wins. We made it into the top 6 giving us false hopes. Then we went into freefall once our opponents worked out how to play against us. When AT took over we were suddenly plaaying the way most fans wanted is to, and we went from losing just about every game to only losing 3 in the last 10.

It can't happen now, but I would have loved to see what AT could have done with the squad he had ripped apart on him to be replaced with youth players before they were ready.

I ve not seen good football from any side or manager since 2000 to be honest. I think we have been slowly conditioned so that even 4 horizontal passes is considered good football

 

[Gaz]

That's funny. McCarthy's management record of 2 football league championships is not good enough apparently. He has managed under resourced teams in the top flight and a nation that is never going to be a major force in world football. So on that basis I would assume that the win ration is similar to Thorn's - is it? No it's twice Thorn's. The real funny thing is the notion he would even consider a club like us to manage - not a chance.

Do you think he is a prolific manager then Grendel ?

 

[Grendel]

Do you think he is a prolific manager then Grendel ?

Depends on your definition. Compared to Thorn yes he's twice the manager Thorn could ever aspire to be. He has managed to get 2 teams promoted from the championship and nearly managed a 3rd promotion with his first go as manager. At Premier level probably not but that is hardly an issue for us now is it?

 

[Gaz]

Depends on your definition. Compared to Thorn yes he's twice the manager Thorn could ever aspire to be. He has managed to get 2 teams promoted from the championship and nearly managed a 3rd promotion with his first go as manager. At Premier level probably not but that is hardly an issue for us now is it?

No it isn't an issue for us, which is why I found it funny that you would write a paragraph on him being a good manager.

 

[Grendel]

But your post on this issue referred to managers having unequal resource. Other than Wolves promotion seasons I would argue he has always managed clubs with poor resource in comparison to his competition - but he still gets to win 4 out of 10 throughout his career.
What's funny is some people will genuinely think he is not good enough and thorns better. That's not funny that's side splitting hilarious.

 

[Gaz]

Just out of curiosity is the 4 wins out of 10 throughout his career, excluding his time at Wolves ?

Who do you think believes Thorn is a better manager than mad mick
Or did you just make that bit up ?

 

[ampthill_sba]

I agree. Last season the squad was torn apart and not patched up.

This season it has been patched up, but how good are the replacements? It will take them time to gel. We need to be a little patient.

Not very good on the observations made at Nuneaton I'm afraid.

 

[Astute]

I ve not seen good football from any side or manager since 2000 to be honest. I think we have been slowly conditioned so that even 4 horizontal passes is considered good football

I meant playing a passing game and not having a stiff neck all the time kooking at the sky searchibg for the ball each time we got it. How many enjoyed hoofball?

 

[stupot07]

He also had decent resources at Sunderland, and had one of the best ROI sides in a long time.

 

[Grendel]

Just out of curiosity is the 4 wins out of 10 throughout his career, excluding his time at Wolves ?

Who do you think believes Thorn is a better manager than mad mick
Or did you just make that bit up ?

As one person has already stated thorn is our best manager since Jimmy Hill, another the best in the championship and plenty that the best managers in the land could not have got more points than thorn last season I conclude that these people would think that.

 

[Grendel]

I meant playing a passing game and not having a stiff neck all the time kooking at the sky searchibg for the ball each time we got it. How many enjoyed hoofball?

Everyone enjoyed in when we were in the top 6.

 

[Gaz]

As one person has already stated thorn is our best manager since Jimmy Hill, another the best in the championship and plenty that the best managers in the land could not have got more points than thorn last season I conclude that these people would think that.

You conclude ?

So nobody has actually said they genuinely think Thorn is a better manager.

 

[ClarrieB]

I meant playing a passing game and not having a stiff neck all the time kooking at the sky searchibg for the ball each time we got it. How many enjoyed hoofball?

When we were winning I didn't care - just as many West Ham fans as much as they did

 

[ClarrieB]

You conclude ?

So nobody has actually said they genuinely think Thorn is a better manager.

They have argued that no other manager could have done better - if not for these defenders of the indefensible we would have got rid and stayed up.

 

[Gaz]

They have argued that no other manager could have done better - if not for these defenders of the indefensible we would have got rid and stayed up.

No other manager could have done better ?

So that's still not anyone saying Thorn is a better manager than mad Mick then.

 

[Macca]

I meant playing a passing game and not having a stiff neck all the time kooking at the sky searchibg for the ball each time we got it. How many enjoyed hoofball?

Hoofball was awful no doubt. Although I do remember coming out of the boro game, a terrible experience, though we won 1 0, and thinking "so be it" as we moved into the top 6. Sadly once we were found out we went into free fall. I still think that the attractive football thing is a con though. I mean me and my mates could pass side to side and back to the keeper under no pressure.