CCFC Supports Rainbow Laces - Why? (2 Viewers)

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Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Disgruntled Sky Blue said:
And based on some of the more thought out responses I can only conclude most believe they are born like it and an intrinsic part of their personality. I'm not so sure it's as simple as that but I cannot offer an alternative explanation but do struggle to accept any person to be first and foremost defined by their sexuality preference.
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This is something imposed by society, not the person themselves.
 
P

procdoc

Well-Known Member
Disgruntled Sky Blue said:
I see the thread has been totally derailed! Would have responded to some of the posts much earlier but sadly work got in the way.

I was after a debate about something that is concerning for me but wanted to know what others for and against viewpoints were. On reflection my use of the word 'choices' may have been too insensitive for those who support LGTB+ and it only served to dilute my initial question. I also asked if it's not a choice then what is it? And based on some of the more thought out responses I can only conclude most believe they are born like it and an intrinsic part of their personality. I'm not so sure it's as simple as that but I cannot offer an alternative explanation but do struggle to accept any person to be first and foremost defined by their sexuality preference.

Duffer made a point saying the campaign was really about the LGBT community being accepted for who they are even in football. I agree they should but I'm unclear about why it is so necessary for the fanfare and the need for a spotlight on who they are sexually to be accepted? Why do I or anybody else need to know someone's sexuality preferences for them to take part in life's activities? Quite frankly I'd rather not know because it may get in the way of getting to know the person.

Can I just thank Mr Monkey, Riyadh and Stay up sky blues for taking the time to provide first hand experiences and to everyone one who provided a measured response. I do have my opinion and my OP was not intended to cause offence but rather to understand why the club should support the campaign. Coventry City FC or any other club are unlikely to turn away a fan or turn down a good player based on their sexuality so I'm still not sure that question has been answered successfully.

Anyway I appreciate that what I have asked has polarised opinions but I think it is good to have these kinds of debates without vitriol. If nothing else we can all be better informed regardless of agreement.
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Why does it bother you so much? One of my mates is gay and he has been called loads of horrible names, this is why campaigns like this exist.
I really don’t understand why it bothers you so much to the point where you are forcing your archaic views on everyone else.
 
CJ_covblaze

CJ_covblaze

Well-Known Member
I don’t understand why the gender of someone’s partner is a problem to other people.

When it comes to the rainbow laces/corner flags etc, if that makes the LGBT community feel more accepted at a football match again I don’t understand why that is a problem.
 
Disgruntled Sky Blue

Disgruntled Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
procdoc said:
Why does it bother you so much? One of my mates is gay and he has been called loads of horrible names, this is why campaigns like this exist.
I really don’t understand why it bothers you so much to the point where you are forcing your archaic views on everyone else.
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Ok I'll bite. Where have I forced my so-called archaic views on anyone? I have asked a question that is all. I have not been vicious or abusive. However, I have on reflection mistakenly used the word choices rather than preference.

You accuse me of forcing my archaic views on everyone so what exactly do you think you are doing? I guess you would call your viewpoint educating and enlightening?

I'm sorry to hear your friend is getting called horrible names, that I do not support. However, it does amaze me that you so easily dismiss my viewpoint and question as a botheration.

I may not have a 2021 outlook on life, but new thinking doesn’t necessarily mean right thinking. I have now been given some insight into how the LGBT+ community might feel about integrating into mainstream society and although I have sympathy for anyone who has been subjected to that kind of abuse, I am not about to change my stance on how I view the nuclear family as fundamental building blocks of human society. Should that model get torpedoed into oblivion then I think society will have far greater things to worry about than my thoughts about CCFC supporting Rainbow Laces.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Disgruntled Sky Blue said:
I see the thread has been totally derailed! Would have responded to some of the posts much earlier but sadly work got in the way.

I was after a debate about something that is concerning for me but wanted to know what others for and against viewpoints were. On reflection my use of the word 'choices' may have been too insensitive for those who support LGTB+ and it only served to dilute my initial question. I also asked if it's not a choice then what is it? And based on some of the more thought out responses I can only conclude most believe they are born like it and an intrinsic part of their personality. I'm not so sure it's as simple as that but I cannot offer an alternative explanation but do struggle to accept any person to be first and foremost defined by their sexuality preference.

Duffer made a point saying the campaign was really about the LGBT community being accepted for who they are even in football. I agree they should but I'm unclear about why it is so necessary for the fanfare and the need for a spotlight on who they are sexually to be accepted? Why do I or anybody else need to know someone's sexuality preferences for them to take part in life's activities? Quite frankly I'd rather not know because it may get in the way of getting to know the person.

Can I just thank Mr Monkey, Riyadh and Stay up sky blues for taking the time to provide first hand experiences and to everyone one who provided a measured response. I do have my opinion and my OP was not intended to cause offence but rather to understand why the club should support the campaign. Coventry City FC or any other club are unlikely to turn away a fan or turn down a good player based on their sexuality so I'm still not sure that question has been answered successfully.

Anyway I appreciate that what I have asked has polarised opinions but I think it is good to have these kinds of debates without vitriol. If nothing else we can all be better informed regardless of agreement.
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The reason why this, racism, sexism etc are prevalent is because they have historically been big issues and, although they are improving, there is still a lot of prejudice regarding issues like these that needs eradicating. That can only be done by informing people, and to do that you have to make them aware of it. Hopefully there will come a time when such things will no longer be necessary as sexuality etc will no longer be an issue. But we aren't there yet and in order to get there we're going to have to have the issues kept prominently in the public eye and for some it may seem a bit like overkill.

The main issue I had with your original post was the use of the word 'choice' regarding their sexuality. It's not a choice. It's just who people are. Do you remember the day you decided to be attracted to the opposite sex? Or did you just suddenly feel something for someone one day? That's how it worked for me - 8 years old and a girl moved into a house just down the road. I saw her as she got out of the car and I got butterflies, my breathing and pulse quickened and I couldn't take my eyes off her. I didn't decide to do that or have any control over it- it just happened. For other people that just happens with people of the same gender. Meanwhile, I see blokes and I can find them handsome or admire their physique, but I never have a desire to be intimate with them. Again, that isn't a choice it just doesn't happen.

I've tried to justify your terminology and the only way I can come close to being able to do so is if you're ignoring sexuality and just talking about sex. I'm sure many people on here have chosen to have sex with someone who they weren't overly enamoured with. Some people will experiment to try and discover who they are or whatever, but IMO that's a completely different issue and the rainbow laces / LGBTQ+ is about a far deeper meaning and being able to be the person you truly are.
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Disgruntled Sky Blue said:
I am not about to change my stance on how I view the nuclear family as fundamental building blocks of human society. Should that model get torpedoed into oblivion then I think society will have far greater things to worry about than my thoughts about CCFC supporting Rainbow Laces.
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What exactly is the problem with same sex couples having children? I am good friends with same sex couples of both genders and their children are the same as all other children.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Disgruntled Sky Blue said:
Ok I'll bite. Where have I forced my so-called archaic views on anyone? I have asked a question that is all. I have not been vicious or abusive. However, I have on reflection mistakenly used the word choices rather than preference.

You accuse me of forcing my archaic views on everyone so what exactly do you think you are doing? I guess you would call your viewpoint educating and enlightening?

I'm sorry to hear your friend is getting called horrible names, that I do not support. However, it does amaze me that you so easily dismiss my viewpoint and question as a botheration.

I may not have a 2021 outlook on life, but new thinking doesn’t necessarily mean right thinking. I have now been given some insight into how the LGBT+ community might feel about integrating into mainstream society and although I have sympathy for anyone who has been subjected to that kind of abuse, I am not about to change my stance on how I view the nuclear family as fundamental building blocks of human society. Should that model get torpedoed into oblivion then I think society will have far greater things to worry about than my thoughts about CCFC supporting Rainbow Laces.
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I think this is the nub of your misunderstanding. The idea of the man/woman marriage that go to work every day to pay for them to raise some kids together. It's a very old-fashioned idea that is heavily entrenched into our tradition via things like religion. In some ways being accepting towards gay people etc could help save humanity by reducing the amount of people being born and helping reverse the trend of massive overpopulation (which is still growing at an alarming rate) and the over-consumption of land and resources to care for us all.

Someone being gay doesn't stop others from being the 'nuclear family' if that's what they want to do. You're hardly likely to be criticised if that's your choice - in fact you're far more likely to be praised for it. Whereas those that are gay until recently haven't been able to do that at all and even now still face opposition to what they're doing even though it's none of the people's business.

Also, even for heterosexual couples the nuclear family is an old fashioned ideal. Would it be better for a couple to stay together even if they no longer love each other and the home is a toxic environment? We've seen instances of traditional families where the children have been badly mistreated. Couples can split up, remarry and you can still raise happy, healthy kids if you approach it with care and consideration. Of course that doesn't always happen but sometimes those kids can become more rounded, understanding individuals having faced these circumstances. Certainly compared to others that have been raised in a traditional environment and been taught that's the way it should be done and so look down on others that haven't as inferior or degenerate.
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
Sick Boy said:
What exactly is the problem with same sex couples having children? I am good friends with same sex couples of both genders and their children are the same as all other children.
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As long as the children are cared for and happy, why would anybody give a shit? Baffling.

Let's face it, being a man and a woman doesn't instantly give parent points. See the thread about the poor boy in Solihull as an example.
 
mr_monkey

mr_monkey

Well-Known Member
Disgruntled Sky Blue said:
Ok I'll bite. Where have I forced my so-called archaic views on anyone? I have asked a question that is all. I have not been vicious or abusive. However, I have on reflection mistakenly used the word choices rather than preference.

You accuse me of forcing my archaic views on everyone so what exactly do you think you are doing? I guess you would call your viewpoint educating and enlightening?

I'm sorry to hear your friend is getting called horrible names, that I do not support. However, it does amaze me that you so easily dismiss my viewpoint and question as a botheration.

I may not have a 2021 outlook on life, but new thinking doesn’t necessarily mean right thinking. I have now been given some insight into how the LGBT+ community might feel about integrating into mainstream society and although I have sympathy for anyone who has been subjected to that kind of abuse, I am not about to change my stance on how I view the nuclear family as fundamental building blocks of human society. Should that model get torpedoed into oblivion then I think society will have far greater things to worry about than my thoughts about CCFC supporting Rainbow Laces.
Click to expand...

Why do you get to dictate what a nuclear family is? I can tell you for a fact that my daughter who is being raised by two dads is as loved and supported as any "traditional" family and has a damn better life with us than she would have done with her birth parents due to their circumstances

I don't understand how you can have what you believe is a valid opinion on something you know nothing about and the fact that your views on it seem to be in the minority on here fills my heart with joy

Genuine question, what part of society is worse off with me and my husband raising a happy and loved child?
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
mr_monkey said:
Why do you get to dictate what a nuclear family is? I can tell you for a fact that my daughter who is being raised by two dads is as loved and supported as any "traditional" family and has a damn better life with us than she would have done with her birth parents due to their circumstances

I don't understand how you can have what you believe is a valid opinion on something you know nothing about and the fact that your views on it seem to be in the minority on here fills my heart with joy

Genuine question, what part of society is worse off with me and my husband raising a happy and loved child?
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This might be stereotyping but the way I see it is that as you and your husband have had to jump through more hoops to have a child then surely it means there's a much higher chance the children will be comfortable and raised well. Same if somebody is going through IVF then the hoops they have needed to jump through for the child means everything is in place for that child to be raised properly.

Not saying that straight people don't look after their kids, far from it. To just rule out "Oh it's 2 blokes, oh it's 2 women" so they can't have a child. Who cares as long as the child is happy and looked after. I honestly can't see why anybody would disagree.
 
COV

COV

Well-Known Member
Disgruntled Sky Blue said:
Ok I'll bite. Where have I forced my so-called archaic views on anyone? I have asked a question that is all. I have not been vicious or abusive. However, I have on reflection mistakenly used the word choices rather than preference.

You accuse me of forcing my archaic views on everyone so what exactly do you think you are doing? I guess you would call your viewpoint educating and enlightening?

I'm sorry to hear your friend is getting called horrible names, that I do not support. However, it does amaze me that you so easily dismiss my viewpoint and question as a botheration.

I may not have a 2021 outlook on life, but new thinking doesn’t necessarily mean right thinking. I have now been given some insight into how the LGBT+ community might feel about integrating into mainstream society and although I have sympathy for anyone who has been subjected to that kind of abuse, I am not about to change my stance on how I view the nuclear family as fundamental building blocks of human society. Should that model get torpedoed into oblivion then I think society will have far greater things to worry about than my thoughts about CCFC supporting Rainbow Laces.
Click to expand...

So a same sex couple with children- doesn’t that count as a ‘nuclear family’ to you?

I can kind of see you aren’t setting out to cause offence, but even so your views are pretty ignorant.
 
mr_monkey

mr_monkey

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
This might be stereotyping but the way I see it is that as you and your husband have had to jump through more hoops to have a child then surely it means there's a much higher chance the children will be comfortable and raised well. Same if somebody is going through IVF then the hoops they have needed to jump through for the child means everything is in place for that child to be raised properly.

Not saying that straight people don't look after their kids, far from it. To just rule out "Oh it's 2 blokes, oh it's 2 women" so they can't have a child. Who cares as long as the child is happy and looked after. I honestly can't see why anybody would disagree.
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Nail on the head mate, couldn't have put it better myself

And the thing is we adopted my daughter when she was a baby so she doesn't know any different than being raised by two loving dad's.

She is 7 now so of course asks and is asked questions about it all but her response is that she loves her daddies more than anything and she is a very happy child and excelling at school (not meaning to be a humble brag I'm just very proud of her 😂)
 
Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon

Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon

Well-Known Member
mr_monkey said:
Why do you get to dictate what a nuclear family is? I can tell you for a fact that my daughter who is being raised by two dads is as loved and supported as any "traditional" family and has a damn better life with us than she would have done with her birth parents due to their circumstances

I don't understand how you can have what you believe is a valid opinion on something you know nothing about and the fact that your views on it seem to be in the minority on here fills my heart with joy

Genuine question, what part of society is worse off with me and my husband raising a happy and loved child?
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Totally understand if you don't want to answer this on a public forum but i'm interested to know how your daughter is treated by the other kids, does she get much bullying about it? I'm mid-thirties and would have fully expected alot of bullshit at school, but my experience of the way my daughter and her friends think/relate to one another these days really does fill me with a bit more hope that acceptance is increasing?
 
mr_monkey

mr_monkey

Well-Known Member
Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon said:
Totally understand if you don't want to answer this on a public forum but i'm interested to know how your daughter is treated by the other kids, does she get much bullying about it? I'm mid-thirties and would have fully expected alot of bullshit at school, but my experience of the way my daughter and her friends think/relate to one another these days really does fill me with a bit more hope that acceptance is increasing?
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More than happy to answer mate, she has some questions asked of her but she doesn't know any different so just answers them in her awesome matter of fact way 😂

I think you are right and acceptance is definitely increasing but we still do get comments and looks from people but luckily she is of the opinion that if someone isn't nice she isn't interested in what they have to say
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon said:
Totally understand if you don't want to answer this on a public forum but i'm interested to know how your daughter is treated by the other kids, does she get much bullying about it? I'm mid-thirties and would have fully expected alot of bullshit at school, but my experience of the way my daughter and her friends think/relate to one another these days really does fill me with a bit more hope that acceptance is increasing?
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Without doubt my daughter is 12 and much more aware to this sort of thing than I was at school.
 
Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon

Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon

Well-Known Member
mr_monkey said:
More than happy to answer mate, she has some questions asked of her but she doesn't know any different so just answers them in her awesome matter of fact way 😂

I think you are right and acceptance is definitely increasing but we still do get comments and looks from people but luckily she is of the opinion that if someone isn't nice she isn't interested in what they have to say
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Good on her! I'd have been amazed if she didn't get any questions or stupid statements aimed at her but sounds like she is dealing with it very well. I have definitely shifted my own view/understanding of these kinds of issues over time and I think it's great that society in general is heading that way (with many miles left to travel though!)
 
rob9872

rob9872

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
The reason why this, racism, sexism etc are prevalent is because they have historically been big issues and, although they are improving, there is still a lot of prejudice regarding issues like these that needs eradicating. That can only be done by informing people, and to do that you have to make them aware of it. Hopefully there will come a time when such things will no longer be necessary as sexuality etc will no longer be an issue. But we aren't there yet and in order to get there we're going to have to have the issues kept prominently in the public eye and for some it may seem a bit like overkill.

The main issue I had with your original post was the use of the word 'choice' regarding their sexuality. It's not a choice. It's just who people are. Do you remember the day you decided to be attracted to the opposite sex? Or did you just suddenly feel something for someone one day? That's how it worked for me - 8 years old and a girl moved into a house just down the road. I saw her as she got out of the car and I got butterflies, my breathing and pulse quickened and I couldn't take my eyes off her. I didn't decide to do that or have any control over it- it just happened. For other people that just happens with people of the same gender. Meanwhile, I see blokes and I can find them handsome or admire their physique, but I never have a desire to be intimate with them. Again, that isn't a choice it just doesn't happen.

I've tried to justify your terminology and the only way I can come close to being able to do so is if you're ignoring sexuality and just talking about sex. I'm sure many people on here have chosen to have sex with someone who they weren't overly enamoured with. Some people will experiment to try and discover who they are or whatever, but IMO that's a completely different issue and the rainbow laces / LGBTQ+ is about a far deeper meaning and being able to be the person you truly are.
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8? I knew I was a bit of a late developer, but even so, 8 wow. I had no idea what it was all about for long after that. In fact even when I did I was still happier playing footie 😀
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
rob9872 said:
8? I knew I was a bit of a late developer, but even so, 8 wow. I had no idea what it was all about for long after that. In fact even when I did I was still happier playing footie 😀
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It was more the general feeling of attraction towards her than specifically physical/sexual,
 
Johnnythespider

Johnnythespider

Well-Known Member
Children are taught about same sex parents at school in a subtle way from an early age, this hopefully helps to instill acceptance of all family groups, at least they are until a load of "disgruntled" parents rock up and start protesting about it.
However reasonable the OP feels they're being with their questions they are homophobic and a part of the problem, i would ask them a question, have they ever been attacked, both verbally and physically for their sexuality ? Perhaps if they had they might see the need for rainbow laces and pride events in wider society.
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
The best advice to anybody with worries about "the gays" is to go to the Yard, bang a few beers down and watch a drag queen sing You've Got the Love.

Actually a decent, relaxed atmosphere.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
mr_monkey said:
More than happy to answer mate, she has some questions asked of her but she doesn't know any different so just answers them in her awesome matter of fact way 😂

I think you are right and acceptance is definitely increasing but we still do get comments and looks from people but luckily she is of the opinion that if someone isn't nice she isn't interested in what they have to say
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Looks like you’ve done a brilliant job raising her so far-you’re right to be proud.
 
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