USSR invades Ukraine. (69 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Some good points made by people above, it reminds me of the Simpsons when all of Mr Burn´s lawyers are too scared to tell him anything negative and they all just stand there like nodding dogs. Putin is Mr Burns!

View attachment 24004

‘Long Island Slave Corporation, how’s that doing?’

‘It’s…..steady’

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

Russia banned from world football. Spartak Moscow chucked out of europa league

How’s Putin going to sell that to the public ?!

Set up their own World Series?

 

[shmmeee]

Set up their own World Series?

Take over enough countries to have their own World Cup, with vodka and strippers

 

[David O'Day]

Why would you make it harder for them in these circumstances? We can all get to the CBS but it would be easier for some to go by rail or bus.

Surely any leader with any integrity would be doing all they could to help the people of Ukraine not put barriers in the any.

Hungary isn't even the best route though, most of the stuff will be coming from teh UK, France, Germany (both German and US) so Germany, Poland, Ukraine is the easiest route

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Hungary isn't even the best route though, most of the stuff will be coming from teh UK, France, Germany (both German and US) so Germany, Poland, Ukraine is the easiest route

OK you are right. Perfectly reasonable by Orban to do this. Maybe Slovakia and Romania should do the same.

 

[David O'Day]

OK you are right. Perfectly reasonable by Orban to do this. Maybe Slovakia and Romania should do the same.

Where did I say it was reasonable, I said it doesn't really make a big difference.

 

[David O'Day]

 

[Deleted member 9744]

OK you are right. Perfectly reasonable by Orban to do this. Maybe Slovakia and Romania should do the same.

Our Government could make the same argument on refugees. Most don't want to come here so let's not allow them in because they can go to other countries.

Can't understand why you want to excuse a reactionary leader like Orban.

 

[David O'Day]

Our Government could make the same argument on refugees. Most don't want to come here so let's not allow them in because they can go to other countries.

Can't understand why you want to excuse a reactionary leader like Orban.

No one did that mate.

why are you making shit up now and talking to yourself

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Heard stories of some Ukrainian kids at Cov schools who went home for half term and are now stuck with the only way back to come without their dads or older brothers.

Heartbreaking stuff really.

 

[Flying Fokker]

Heard stories of some Ukrainian kids at Cov schools who went home for half term and are now stuck with the only way back to come without their dads or older brothers.

Heartbreaking stuff really.

I guess it is a catch 22 scenario. What a horrible situation to be in. Leave and your are likely to go to prison or fight in a war you never wanted..

 

[skybluetony176]

Very angry Russian politician on C4 news tonight. Completely delusion about Ukrainians wanting them there and blaming the Ukrainian government for attacks on civilians, when called out starting going on about Iraq and Afghanistan and basically saying if the West was allowed to invade Iraq and Afghanistan then Russia should be allowed to invade Ukraine. Big red vodka nose too.

 

[David O'Day]

Shell are getting out of Russia along with BP.

Their economy is going to take such a kicking

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

It's also illegal

So they are to be judged equally?

The West has been far from perfect, but to bring that up in the present context just lacks perspective.

 

[Ian1779]

Shell are getting out of Russia along with BP.

Their economy is going to take such a kicking

And then Shell and BP will soften the blow on themselves by hiking up our prices accordingly.

 

[Ian1779]

So they are to be judged equally?

The West has been far from perfect, but to bring that up in the present context just lacks perspective.

Perhaps if we stop with the idea that ‘far from perfect’ is actually OK we may finally start to break this continuous cycle of war and destruction in the pursuit of greed and power.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Well let’s consider that at the moment Putin wants to topple the ‘bad’ regime and put in place his own puppet in charge of a pseudo colony.

Then let’s compare with all the times, and there are plenty, that the US invaded countries to remove a ‘bad’ regime and install a favourable one.

None should have happened, but as we have defined ourselves as ‘good’ and Russia and seemingly China as ‘bad’, the Western world is dogpiling Russia economically but did no such thing to the US for all of their own invasions of sovereign states.

Also as above this idea that we’re all in favour of freedom loving democracies falls flat when the US is allied to a high % of dictatorships and turns a blind eye to their own misdemeanours. Yes, what Putin’s doing is wrong and he deserves what’s coming to him. But it’s gross hypocrisy to act like we haven’t done what he’s done many times ourselves. Just we were too big to be challenged.

Gross hypocrisy?

Say what you like about the more recent, post-Cold War interventions of the West, but we weren’t invading and occupying democratic states.

The global economy deals with unsavoury characters and regimes. After all, this post was made from a phone produced in China. If that’s your yardstick, no one can claim moral superiority anywhere…

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Perhaps if we stop with the idea that ‘far from perfect’ is actually OK we may finally start to break this continuous cycle of war and destruction in the pursuit of greed and power.

Very wooly thinking. There will always conflict.

It’s very disheartening to see people draw false comparisons between this invasion against Ukraine and the invasions against the Taliban, Saddam Hussein and intervention against Gaddafi.

That’s without even accounting for Putin’s nuclear war bluff…

 

[Ian1779]

Very wooly thinking. There will always conflict.

It’s very disheartening to see people draw false comparisons between this invasion against Ukraine and the invasions against the Taliban, Saddam Hussein and intervention against Gaddafi.

That’s without even accounting for Putin’s nuclear war bluff…

People aren’t drawing false equivalence at all, that is just a smearing tool to take away from the fact that people are asking legitimate questions.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

People aren’t drawing false equivalence at all, that is just a smearing tool to take away from the fact that people are asking legitimate questions.

Considering a few people have said the West are hypocrites on this suggests there is an equivalency being drawn.

Two questions on this:
Are we right to impose sanctions on Russia?
Are we right to send weapons to Ukraine?

If the answer is yes to both questions, it probably tells you what you need to know about the conflict.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Perhaps if we stop with the idea that ‘far from perfect’ is actually OK we may finally start to break this continuous cycle of war and destruction in the pursuit of greed and power.

Agree, but the entire basis of your belief system states that success = money, then greed and power will always be dominant. Until we get away from that being the definition of 'success' we don't stand a chance.

 

[Marty]

Agree, but the entire basis of your belief system states that success = money, then greed and power will always be dominant. Until we get away from that being the definition of 'success' we don't stand a chance.

Interesting idea, what would you define as success?

 

[Ian1779]

Interesting idea, what would you define as success?

Quality of life, well-being perhaps?

 

[Ian1779]

Agree, but the entire basis of your belief system states that success = money, then greed and power will always be dominant. Until we get away from that being the definition of 'success' we don't stand a chance.

I think it would be quite nice to live in a world that isn’t defined by ‘the value given to shareholders’

 

[Marty]

Quality of life, well-being perhaps?

Both of those could be related to money. no?

 

[Ian1779]

Both of those could be related to money. no?

Related to, but don’t have to be defined by the measure of.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Both of those could be related to money. no?

Well enough of it would make a nice comfy mattress of fifty quid notes I guess.

 

[Otis]

Considering a few people have said the West are hypocrites on this suggests there is an equivalency being drawn.

Two questions on this:
Are we right to impose sanctions on Russia?
Are we right to send weapons to Ukraine?

If the answer is yes to both questions, it probably tells you what you need to know about the conflict.

Yes to both to my mind and most others too.

 

[clint van damme]

Very wooly thinking. There will always conflict.

It’s very disheartening to see people draw false comparisons between this invasion against Ukraine and the invasions against the Taliban, Saddam Hussein and intervention against Gaddafi.

That’s without even accounting for Putin’s nuclear war bluff…

Saddam Hussein was put in power by the west at the expense of a more moderate leader. Same as the mullahs in Iran.
It is possible to be against those interventions and what Putins doing in Ukraine.

All have had, or will have huge ramifications for every single one of us.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Interesting idea, what would you define as success?

As Ian said, things like quality of life, family, friends, free time, enjoying your work, freedom to do what you want to do. Some of those money will help bring them about, but not solely by themselves. In some cases it can tip over into reducing them.

in terms of biological/natural world, you'd take about success in terms of offspring and/or not needing to spend time working to survive , so those that are having a huge amount of children on benefits in a 'natural' sense of success are smashing it. As we're the only species to have ever had money does that mean every other species has not been successful? Including the ones that survived for millions of years longer than humans have been around for thus far?

One way I certainly wouldn't define success is a huge imbalance of wealth with a small number of people having huge amounts of money while others struggle to get by. It leads to hardship, resentment and crime. Neither is aiming to improve growth constantly in a place with finite resources, cos all your doing is using up those resources quicker and quicker and hastening your own eventual demise.

Trouble is those that have that money have all the political influence and so the large number of people who don't set their stall out by the same metric are forced to dance, to some extent at least, by their tune. Imagine if our politicians couldn't be corrupted and influenced by sums of money when creating policy. Imagine if we weren't held back by rich people and organisations preventing progress due to their own investments.

In fact, if you so wished, you could argue the desire for money and wealth when you already have loads is an addiction. If you made the same comparison with drugs, alcohol, tobacco, gambling, sex you'd classify it as addiction. So in fact rather it being success, they are in fact, to a certain degree, ill.

 

[tisza]

For all their efforts to suppress an independent media & social media you'd still think the Russians would grasp the fact that everyone has a phone with a camera/video on it. All these denials inc in the UN about no civilian targeting or casualties and there is video evidence of it all over these platforms.
But the Ukrainians making a tiktok about how to drive an abandoned tank is taking the social media warfare to a new level.

 

[David O'Day]

For all their efforts to suppress an independent media & social media you'd still think the Russians would grasp the fact that everyone has a phone with a camera/video on it. All these denials inc in the UN about no civilian targeting or casualties and there is video evidence of it all over these platforms.
But the Ukrainians making a tiktok about how to drive an abandoned tank is taking the social media warfare to a new level.

Putin is famously tech illiterate

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Gross hypocrisy?

Say what you like about the more recent, post-Cold War interventions of the West, but we weren’t invading and occupying democratic states.

The global economy deals with unsavoury characters and regimes. After all, this post was made from a phone produced in China. If that’s your yardstick, no one can claim moral superiority anywhere…

The West has been initiating regime changes in more countries than you can shake a continental stick at for a long time. Some dictators are fine, but the ones who decide not to do what we like or as we say must get removed. We even overthrew a democratically elected Iranian government to install the Shah simply because of oil interests. Turned out well, that. We were also quite happy to let Pinochet overthrow another democratically elected Chilean government for political convenience. Plenty of other examples we could go into there.

In the more recent past there was very serious talk in the US of using military force on Venezuela if their democratically elected leader remained in office. We decide to invade other countries not based on whether the dictator is a threat or criminal, but based on whether they have fallen out of favour or are harbouring some valuable resource. Take Hillary Benn’s applause winning speech demanding bombs be dropped on Syria in the name of freedom at the same time as Boko Haram was unleashing itself on Nigeria.


Longer ago we were the ultimate land grabbers who thought little of invading vast swathes of land and taking what we wanted. We were just as deplorable for doing that then as Putin is for what he is doing now. Many times since we have decided who should lead a country instead of those who actually live there. Just we have managed to do it usually without sending in the armed forces.

 

[SBT]

In the more recent past there was very serious talk in the US of using military force on Venezuela if their democratically elected leader remained in office

Yes, shame on all those who would challenge beacons of democracy like uhhhh [checks notes] Venezuela

 

[Ian1779]

Yes, shame on all those who would challenge beacons of democracy like uhhhh [checks notes] Venezuela

So why not send in a neutral contingent like the UN to sort it, rather than the US. Unless you believe the whole ‘Team America:World Police’ thing.