ccfc922
Well-Known Member
How did we get on with Swansea's bowling Green?
Match Thread Luton Match Thread (Home) (2 Viewers)
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How did we get on with Swansea's bowling Green?
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
Luton have a similar budget but made better choices and signings in the summer.
For example, they signed a “midfield general” on a free (but probably strong wages) - Lansbury and a big young striker - Adebayo who was about £200k.
On the flip, we signed a young midfielder- Sheaf for about £700k and an old Striker (on strong wages) - Waghorn.
Neither Lansbury or Waghorn will be ever sold for a fee again, they are 31 and 32 respectively but in Lansbury they have a “Doyle type” in a position where pace isn’t as crucial, where being in the middle and chirping at the Ref and using experience is. We have Waghorn.
Sheaf is an ok player with potential and might be worth £700k. Adebayo has 14 goals and is worth more than £200k.
I don’t need telling by the Stat Gang and Emoji Muppets on here that no one has a crystal ball and some transfers work and some don’t. But in any business, common sense is king.
What I do know is that when Boddy went banging on about the Brentford model, signing Waghorn was totally out of scope. Even if he was doing ok, putting his sign on fee and 2 years contractual wages towards an Adeboyo type who we could attach a value to is just basic common sense.
Common sense is also having more than 1 striker over 5’9” and a fag-end and more than one midfielder (Kelly) out of nappies.
So whoever was in charge of the recruitment strategy this year needs a check-up from the neck-up. “Brentford model?” Waghorn? GTF.
To answer the question: Luton gave a similar budget and arguably less “glamour pull” than us.
They had a better transfer summer not because they are brilliant, but because they had some common f—-ing sense.
Rant over. Boddy: if you read this, give your head a wobble and don’t dare sign players like Waghorn in the summer. Muppet.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
The Sheaf/OHare/Hamer combination is arguably the strongest part of our team, there's few better in this league and as good as we are going to be able to afford for the foreseeable future.
Rip that up and you're in real trouble.
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
If you thought they were fortunate last night, and we had won that game - we would be level with them. That's how close we are. That's the frustrating them. We have come a long way, though, as I'm sure you are aware. Fleetwood, Crewe, Bristol Rovers anybody?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Do you think Robins will be allowed to add that depth to our squad?
I'm sceptical that he will and that could be a real issue.
pusbccfc
Well-Known Member
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Where do you get your information on their budget?
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
Not sure the allowed bit is correct, but get your point. It will come down to budget combined with recruitment. If we recruit players who have (not digging) Tyler Walkers impact, versus Gus Hamers impact, is what will probably be critical in terms of progress, or lack thereof.
Fergusons_Beard
Well-Known Member
Taking a step back on the performance of both teams last night a couple of observations.
Obvious to me that Luton have had a year more in the Championship than us-playing squad deeper, obvious recruitment of championship ready players and they just played in that snidey, wasting time, niggly and awful way that quite a lot of established Championship teams do.
That being said-it’s not sustainable for them, their terrible style of play will get found out and like Preston destined to be perineal mid table side flirting with relegation.
City a year behind but I really do feel with the right kind of recruitment, plus the way we play and set up, we’ll continue to nibble at the play offs over the next few years.
We just have to accept we just aren’t quite there yet.
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Obvious to me that Luton have had a year more in the Championship than us-playing squad deeper, obvious recruitment of championship ready players and they just played in that snidey, wasting time, niggly and awful way that quite a lot of established Championship teams do.
That being said-it’s not sustainable for them, their terrible style of play will get found out and like Preston destined to be perineal mid table side flirting with relegation.
City a year behind but I really do feel with the right kind of recruitment, plus the way we play and set up, we’ll continue to nibble at the play offs over the next few years.
We just have to accept we just aren’t quite there yet.
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Its a little bit rich everybody piling in on Waghorn in my opinion... at the start of the season it was pretty universal on here that he was exactly what we needed, a proven striker at this level.
That goal he scored early on with the sublime touch and quick finish had everybody purring.
Obviously he hasn't been a massive success, and some of it can be attributed to injury, and some to the fact that Godden and Gyokeres (when both fit) are our top choice strikers, so he hasn't really had an extended run in the team.
But i've seen comments on here that he's "the worst striker to ever ply for the club", which is the trademark reactionary bollocks on here.
Everyone is correct with hindsight.
That goal he scored early on with the sublime touch and quick finish had everybody purring.
Obviously he hasn't been a massive success, and some of it can be attributed to injury, and some to the fact that Godden and Gyokeres (when both fit) are our top choice strikers, so he hasn't really had an extended run in the team.
But i've seen comments on here that he's "the worst striker to ever ply for the club", which is the trademark reactionary bollocks on here.
Everyone is correct with hindsight.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Nick
Administrator
Deluded.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I’m not sure they’d want to swap places with us. We’re hardly 1980s AC Milan either.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
I’ll restate that I was amongst the few at the start that questioned his signing for the reasons I’ve stated all along.
No hindsight to common sense.
“Everyone was purring”.
Err…. No.
TomRad85
Well-Known Member
We're burnt out, Robins not really to blame although like almost every other person I do find his use of subs, well terrible.
As usual it lies with the owners. We could have boosted the squad properly in Jan and really had a go, but of course they are happy to tread water.
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As usual it lies with the owners. We could have boosted the squad properly in Jan and really had a go, but of course they are happy to tread water.
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KenilworthSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
They haven't got that many more 'Championship ready' signings than us really. If you look at the team that played us last night a good chunk of the team have either been with them since L1/2 or have been brought in from lower divisions.
stay_up_skyblues
Well-Known Member
Think they had Cameron Jerome and Robert Snodgrass on the bench. That is depth, although both are similar “past it” signings along the lines of Waghorn and I doubt we’d be happy with those signings now.
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
Burge
Willis
Stokes
Turnbull
Haynes
Thomas
Bigirimana
Stevenson
Reid
Lameiras
Beavon
That team won the Checkatrade final - brilliant day, but come on, let's not pretend we are not progressing.
Willis
Stokes
Turnbull
Haynes
Thomas
Bigirimana
Stevenson
Reid
Lameiras
Beavon
That team won the Checkatrade final - brilliant day, but come on, let's not pretend we are not progressing.
Otis
Well-Known Member
I wasn't remembering them in the first place.
better days
Well-Known Member
I never really fancied us last night
We try to play football on a difficult pitch but teams like Luton go for safety first tactics and lump it up to their forwards hoping that they'll get a break
Noble to want play our way but until the pitch is sorted it will encourage more visiting sides to adopt hoofball when they come
Swansea beat us on a good pitch but we have to factor in we were missing some of our most effective players and had others who were not fully fit on Saturday
We try to play football on a difficult pitch but teams like Luton go for safety first tactics and lump it up to their forwards hoping that they'll get a break
Noble to want play our way but until the pitch is sorted it will encourage more visiting sides to adopt hoofball when they come
Swansea beat us on a good pitch but we have to factor in we were missing some of our most effective players and had others who were not fully fit on Saturday
larry_david
Well-Known Member
We have no Plan B.
We changed personnel but not tactic. Not once has MR taken a cb off when we are losing to change formation.
We are burnt out and we will never be 'street wise' O hare and Gyok have started going down doing corkscrews in the air and even myself, with my sky blue tinted glasses on don't appeal, I just sigh, because it's obviously a dive.
We've let Swansea look like prime Barca twice now, they got absolutely smashed at home last night and are bottom half despite looking like champions league elite against us.
I'm frustrated. We're making excellent progress but we've either suffered shocking injury luck, our training methods or man management isn't good enough contributing to burn out and injuries.
If Bidwell IS out for 6 weeks, MR played him an extra 45 mins on Saturday when he'd pulled up. Oggy called it, he was injured.
Dabo has been out a month because MR kept him on despite him hobbling around holding his groin.
Mild rant over
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
What the fuck is a "midfield general" and how have you named Lansbury who has started 40% of the matches he's been involved with as that?
lifeskyblue
Well-Known Member
A few observations from last night:
1) first 10mins and last 10mins we were good…in between that very average at best. We had 2 or 3 half chances early but failed to really test the keeper. Luton were not much better but didn’t have to be. They were well organised, tight in midfield and after going one up successfully strangled any creativity we had
2) throw ins… we just do not have a clue; no movement, no variation, no options. We can point to other teams wasting time (next point) but we waste more when getting a throw in than any team I have ever watched.
3) time wasting…most teams who are playing for a draw or take a lead are allowed to waste minutes by not retreating at free kicks, kicking ball away, dawdling off the field when subbed, arguing over every decision, keepers at goal kicks (and with ball in hand)…etc etc. their keeper should have been booked early second half but no action taken so surprise surprise he continued. Having said that Moore takes so long over goal kicks even when we are chasing the game.
4) always other teams more streetwise in buying free kicks, surrounding ref, contesting decisions. We are very passive.
5) ref…thought he had a decent game certainly in comparison to many we have seen this season. I was a little confused on a couple occasions when players (Gyokeres prime example) threw themselves to the floor and he neither gave the free kick or booked a player for simulation…surely had to be one or other.
6) goal conceded…error from Rose and just not quick enough to recover. Error from Moore…poor positioning at near post. Look at replay and when he dives his feet are outside the line of near post making it nigh on impossible to save a decent shot to far post. That’s not the first (many times) time we have conceded similarly.
7) Pace in team. Just haven’t got any throughout. Godden and Waghorn far to slow to trouble a defence unless passes to them perfect. Noticeable when O’Hare and Tavares came on the difference. Defensively also we are slow and find it difficult to recover once ball and player get beyond.
8) Kane must still be injured (fair play to him for playing through …and with Dabo suspended we have little option) but he is offering less and less defensively or attacking wise down the right. I think he is a good option when fully fit.
9) I think teams have done their homework on our 5 at the back system…especially recently when the wing backs are not getting forward enough and providing outlets or runs behind. Really leaves the midfield exposed and easy to pass through. I think I would like us to try a 4132 or 433 formation
10) Hamer played very well last night, head and shoulders above the rest. Early on especially he seemed buoyed by his new contract. still he and Allen were overwhelmed as Luton took control. In possession he is a real asset but still always looks as if he will get a yellow
11) subs. May not have had many options last night but as usual appeared too little too late. Bit surprised we didn’t see sheaf (when it clear we losing midfield (through numbers) and O’Hare and Tavares a little earlier to give different attacking options.
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1) first 10mins and last 10mins we were good…in between that very average at best. We had 2 or 3 half chances early but failed to really test the keeper. Luton were not much better but didn’t have to be. They were well organised, tight in midfield and after going one up successfully strangled any creativity we had
2) throw ins… we just do not have a clue; no movement, no variation, no options. We can point to other teams wasting time (next point) but we waste more when getting a throw in than any team I have ever watched.
3) time wasting…most teams who are playing for a draw or take a lead are allowed to waste minutes by not retreating at free kicks, kicking ball away, dawdling off the field when subbed, arguing over every decision, keepers at goal kicks (and with ball in hand)…etc etc. their keeper should have been booked early second half but no action taken so surprise surprise he continued. Having said that Moore takes so long over goal kicks even when we are chasing the game.
4) always other teams more streetwise in buying free kicks, surrounding ref, contesting decisions. We are very passive.
5) ref…thought he had a decent game certainly in comparison to many we have seen this season. I was a little confused on a couple occasions when players (Gyokeres prime example) threw themselves to the floor and he neither gave the free kick or booked a player for simulation…surely had to be one or other.
6) goal conceded…error from Rose and just not quick enough to recover. Error from Moore…poor positioning at near post. Look at replay and when he dives his feet are outside the line of near post making it nigh on impossible to save a decent shot to far post. That’s not the first (many times) time we have conceded similarly.
7) Pace in team. Just haven’t got any throughout. Godden and Waghorn far to slow to trouble a defence unless passes to them perfect. Noticeable when O’Hare and Tavares came on the difference. Defensively also we are slow and find it difficult to recover once ball and player get beyond.
8) Kane must still be injured (fair play to him for playing through …and with Dabo suspended we have little option) but he is offering less and less defensively or attacking wise down the right. I think he is a good option when fully fit.
9) I think teams have done their homework on our 5 at the back system…especially recently when the wing backs are not getting forward enough and providing outlets or runs behind. Really leaves the midfield exposed and easy to pass through. I think I would like us to try a 4132 or 433 formation
10) Hamer played very well last night, head and shoulders above the rest. Early on especially he seemed buoyed by his new contract. still he and Allen were overwhelmed as Luton took control. In possession he is a real asset but still always looks as if he will get a yellow
11) subs. May not have had many options last night but as usual appeared too little too late. Bit surprised we didn’t see sheaf (when it clear we losing midfield (through numbers) and O’Hare and Tavares a little earlier to give different attacking options.
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The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
I think that anyone with any clue would see that when I reference “a Doyle type” midfield General who can chirp at the Ref and has experience, then they will know exactly what it means.What the fuck is a "midfield general" and how have you named Lansbury who has started 40% of the matches he's been involved with as that?
I’m sure you do too but like being the way you are.
Lansbury (of whom the Luton fans sing “Henry Lansbury, he kicks who he wants” fits into the Experienced Doyle type.
He’s started 40% of the games you say? Luton signed him at the beginning of the season and they are 6th.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
larry_david
Well-Known Member
The lack of pace up top is worrying. I love Godden, he is a finisher and has good movement but yesterday Waghorn played him in down the right hand side in the 2nd half. And once he finally got there, he was closed down and had NO IDEA what to do. He didnt want to take the defender on, he didnt have the pace to beat him, and the ball went back behind our half way line.
It's not Goddens game but it shows the next level we need to aim at as a fair few teams in that position would have caused us a problem, Luton knew to stand him up and it went back to Mcfadz.
It's not Goddens game but it shows the next level we need to aim at as a fair few teams in that position would have caused us a problem, Luton knew to stand him up and it went back to Mcfadz.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
his own head probably
Grendel
Well-Known Member
hes started 14 games
Grendel
Well-Known Member
What the fuck is a "midfield general" and how have you named Lansbury who has started 40% of the matches he's been involved with as that?
The funny thing is the other day saying waghorn doesn’t fit a made up model abd then praises a clubs strategy which includes signing 35 year old Cameron Jerome
Grendel
Well-Known Member
We play a pretty predictable style
I’m also bored of this cliche about game management and getting in refs faces. It’s an utter myth that will help the team win games
Luton are efficient abs soon tightened uo the back and in the second half we created very little
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
On 9) Kane was really pissing me off last night, he just refused to make runs and drags the play back and brings pressure onto the back line when we have the ball rather than dragging a man away from Rose/Hyam.
pusbccfc
Well-Known Member
Great post.
Waghorn signing has been a let down really. Been injured, lack of goals and the high wages have hung over his head.
For me he reminds me of some of the strikers we had between 2007-2014. Bit of a reputation because of one or two good seasons and because of that struggled under the pressure. It's made worse by the fact he is on significantly more than some others in the squad.
Gyökeres on the other hand, had little pressure because the expectation was so low. He's flourished under that. Next season could be different.
It's interesting because I feel at times we lack experience but then our more experienced heads have been our poorer performers. Kane and Bidwell have ample appearances at this level but have been poor at times.
pusbccfc
Well-Known Member
Really? We've come undone against teams using that game management. Middlesbrough away the same.
We drew against Preston who used that strategy.
We are a very soft team, let's be honest.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
That’s true. And when Allen was booked (unfairly IMO) he then had to hang back with his heel-snapping.
At half time it would have been sensible to sub Allen for Sheaf because of that.