robbiekeane
Well-Known Member
That makes absolutely zero sense
Waghorn to Derby (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter RegiswasGod
- Start date
PUSB-We_are_going_up
Well-Known Member
Yes it does, I said he was a free signing, the only money being payed was his wages. And that we have payed fees for worse players
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
Totally agree. He and Gyo seemed to link up well at the beginning of last season and had a decent partnership. Covid definitely took the wind out of his sails and he's not been the same since (regardless of off the pitch stuff).
I argue that him and Gyo is/was a better partnership that Godden/Gyo - not that I'm saying Waghorn is a better player than Godden.
fatso
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with that, but Waghorn isn't a starter when everyone is fit, at best he's competing with Tavares and Walker for a place on the bench, and it looks like Tavares may now be ahead of him in the pecking order.
Waghorn is apparently one of the higher earners too, so it makes sence to offload him if we possibly can.
We desperately need to free up some wages to bring in a AM on loan.
And Waghorn needs to find first team football somewhere.
Briles
Well-Known Member
Seems to be a lot of this going on of late, why so many people kicking off? I thought this was a tight knit harmonious group.
Joy Division
Well-Known Member
The ones who get the hump are usually moved on
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I mean if Waghorn was like he was last season before Covid, I think he'd be starting up top with Gyo with Godden and one of Walker/Tavares taking two attacking options on the bench.
As it stands now though, that's obviously not the case.
better days
Well-Known Member
Don't think it's a general problem
Happens at most clubs where senior player(s) aren't making the starting 11 when they believe they should
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Of course if we're doing the what-ifs, Walker looked terrific partnering Gyokeres against... Barnsley(?) before he got injured, so there's your front two!
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
Every changing room is portrayed as this, best set of lads massive club etc. Really everyone’s out for themselves
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
I mean, Gyo and Waghorn played together more than just one game!
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
But based on that selection, and that performance, I'd say the plan was as much Gyokeres and Walker to team together, with Waghorn playing when they wanted 5 in midfield / to give O'Hare a break.
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
Yeah maybe.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Remember as well that Gyokeres had had an average at best loan spell with us, so nobody was probably expecting him to become indispensable, too, rather squad rotation with the other three depending on opponent.
robbiekeane
Well-Known Member
Transfer fee versus wages who cares it’s the same pot of money and most transfer fees are paid in instalments. A cheap wage player with a fee is less money than a player for free with significant wages (like Waghorn)
Just saying “he only cost us wages we’ve paid fees for worse” is meaningless
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AOM
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic. On a strictly player career level, it's in a players interest for other players in that same position to perform poorly for the team, but I'd imagine their media training and managers are constantly getting them to promote the "team first".
Can't remember which football documentary it was where the team were encouraged to all celebrate goals together, so you'd get centre backs jogging the length of the pitch to celebrate, haha
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
The obvious one is Hilssner in recent years, 3 year contract and we’ve seen him in a couple of friendlies
KenilworthSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
Kastaneer as well. Was lauded by Badlan and it was indicated he should've been playing above L1 upon his signing.
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
He got on the pitch at least! That seemed more he was uncoachable than just well in this case, not being very good.
why do you guys need to go back to those players, are people saying Waghorn is a worse signing than Hilsner?
KenilworthSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
I think what puts Kasntaneer on par in my eyes is that Badlan had apparently been monitoring him since his youth career prior to bringing him to the club. Regardless no due diligence was done on either, but for different reasons.
Hilssner is certainly one of the strangest signings I can remember though. What made it even more bizarre is the development of his asthma issue more or less as soon as he signed. You have to wonder whether a glaring mistake was made in the medical there...
Londonccfcfan
Well-Known Member
Some players just dont fit our system or dynamic. Think hes unfortunate theres a good player in there, hes lacking confidence.
Was under pressure before he even started here with perceived big wages tag. But tbf at the time made sense. But if we can cut some losses here well and good..could work well for both parties.
I'm more than happy fir Tavares and Walker as back up to our front 2.
Was under pressure before he even started here with perceived big wages tag. But tbf at the time made sense. But if we can cut some losses here well and good..could work well for both parties.
I'm more than happy fir Tavares and Walker as back up to our front 2.
Terry_dactyl
Well-Known Member
I’ve never seen Hilsner play. Probably a worse signing but possibly not a worse player.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
And no doubt a signing on fee
Frostie
Well-Known Member
Not as simplistic as that, signings don't work out for a myriad of reasons, doesn't mean no due diligence was done, as you said yourself we'd been monitoring Kastaneer for years.
He's clearly a very talented footballer, had a Premier League move all but agreed earlier in his career & was even a regular in the Dutch top flight last season.
Badlan's comments that technically he's too good for L1 are probably true but it's not just about ability. Coupled with the fact it's a very different game over here (Holland-England transfers are notoriously hit & miss) & he just didn't have the right mentality to make it work.
Pezza
Well-Known Member
Just a point on the transfer activity of Badlan and his team, it's been pretty poor I think.
Hamer, O'Hare and Vik yes, however I'm pretty sure O'Hare was on the radar of most clubs as he was a league player in the Carlise United team, Vik was playing in England in u23 football and then on loan, so hardly a 'find'.
I'll give him Hamer, sure but the rest... we basically recruit players that Adi V knows (Kane, Panzo, Dabo, Maatsan, Palmer).
Point being, the others have all be awful and I'm not really sure what Badlan his team and are adding...
Hamer, O'Hare and Vik yes, however I'm pretty sure O'Hare was on the radar of most clubs as he was a league player in the Carlise United team, Vik was playing in England in u23 football and then on loan, so hardly a 'find'.
I'll give him Hamer, sure but the rest... we basically recruit players that Adi V knows (Kane, Panzo, Dabo, Maatsan, Palmer).
Point being, the others have all be awful and I'm not really sure what Badlan his team and are adding...
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Talk about a post contradicting your point, recruitment is terrible apart from 3 of the best players we've had for years.
saveitforthewombles
Well-Known Member
Such a dumb post. Since Badlan and the management team have worked together our league position has improved and the overall value of our squad has gone up massively. Highlights: McFadz (free), Rose (free), Moore (free), Walsh (loan), Dabo (free), O'Hare (free), Godden (free), Sheaf, Hamer, Matty James (loan), Gyokeres, Maatsen (loan), Clarke-Salter (loan). The scouting dept has built year on year with improved knowledge and more people on the ground. AND more budget. Of course there are going to be misses - with tight budgets thats more than possible (side note: Premier League clubs with their millions also get it wrong).
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Weird take
KenilworthSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
Yeah talent was never really an issue.
Perhaps that's the wrong phrase. Regardless, it was a pretty strange move from the club's part, especially if they were aware of his sheer lack of application that they would've signed him. Which really they probably did, or at the very least they had an indication, given how long Badlan had been scouting him for, yet seemingly ignored. Well, either that or those that Badlan spoke to at Kastaneer's club at the time seriously glossed over the fact he had a terrible work ethic.
As shown with Nazon, Bright etc. the club certainly isn't totally against taking a chance on these types of players. Hindsight is of course a wonderful thing but to put him on a 3-year deal was absurd when the signing was far more of a calculated risk than most are.
Granted he may not have come if the club had offered him a 2 year contract with year option in the club's favour for instance, but that's probably a risk the club really should've taken if they were set on bringing in a player of his type.
Pezza
Well-Known Member
It's not really that dumb though is it...
It's just my take...
To clarify there is a difference between recruitment (budget, financing, selling players on, etc) and scouting (finding and identifying talent), so fair enough when you allude to the former but in terms of scouting:
Clarke-Salter - Chelsea link (Adi)
Dabo (Adi)
Maatsen (was already in league 1 season before and Chelsea link again)
Godden (top goalscorer in league 1 season before)
Matty James (PL winner)
McFadz (season pro)
Moore (was first choice at Sheff Utd before their promotion)
I agree others like Rose were great find, my point is so much seems to be network through Adi and proven players and less from scouting team, most of which have been misses.
Agree though, they're done well to manage budget and work within constraints.
It's just my take...
To clarify there is a difference between recruitment (budget, financing, selling players on, etc) and scouting (finding and identifying talent), so fair enough when you allude to the former but in terms of scouting:
Clarke-Salter - Chelsea link (Adi)
Dabo (Adi)
Maatsen (was already in league 1 season before and Chelsea link again)
Godden (top goalscorer in league 1 season before)
Matty James (PL winner)
McFadz (season pro)
Moore (was first choice at Sheff Utd before their promotion)
I agree others like Rose were great find, my point is so much seems to be network through Adi and proven players and less from scouting team, most of which have been misses.
Agree though, they're done well to manage budget and work within constraints.