Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (202 Viewers)

[The Philosopher]

Just to make the point again though, the Council don't own ACL. I'm not sure how they could directly influence this process.

I think it's much more likely that SISU were simply outbid rather than stitched up. All of the evidence points to them struggling financially.

Is it possible that SISU have been playing hard-ball over a potential sale with the wrong person, if it's Ashley, and he's beat them to the punch on the stadium with a mind to hoover up the club at a later date?

Lease assignment in event of insolvency event clause. I guess they have to be onside to assign.

Ashley won’t be buying the company ACL, just the lease.

 

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[BackRoomRummermill]

I hope so!

what’s come of this is proof that the stadium needs CCFC playing week in and out for it to survive - yes a few concerts in the summer etc - but ultimately it was built for CCFC to play in - so burn all the wasps shit Get the cov flags out

 

[djr8369]

I'm a little uneasy with what we're hearing.

I'm just hoping that MA is getting the stadium deal done first before trying to get us from Sisu. If he doesn't, I guess the situation is just the same as before - we play in a stadium we don't own and Sisu continue to not invest, MR works wonders etc. There won't be Wasps signs though so that's a positive. And they'll be gone. That's a turbo-positive.

Fingers crossed my pessimism is wrong.

He’d be crazy to do the stadium deal first without a plan for the club. Either he has an agreement with SISU or he really hasn’t had any contact with them yet which means a years long standoff between MA and SISU.

 

[Nick]

Am I the only one reasonably calm about this? SISU could have done the same as Ashley - they didn’t, they haven’t been preparing us for bad news like they used to.

given Ashley is looking to get back into football, this is the first step. SISU have had enough

Best scenario I can think of.

 

[The Philosopher]

That’s something I guess but we plod along for another 8 years until lease is up then arguments start afresh

When long term lease expires it’ll be difficult to evict CCFC under normal terms.

Normally the leasee (CCFC) would ask for a renewed lease under equivalent terms and it should be granted.
Rent could increase but there are protections in place.

However, Ashley could get round it but it’d be subject to legal challenge.

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

MIKE Ashley’s Sky Blue Army anyone ?

 

[djr8369]

Yeah but I think we have to remember that on the pitch anyway we are still pretty good. We’ve made huge strides in the last few years. I can’t see Sisu being here in 8 years time


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What’s their route out though? As others have said they won’t crystallise a loss so they will bleed us slowly with interest on loans.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

He’d be crazy to do the stadium deal first without a plan for the club. Either he has an agreement with SISU or he really hasn’t had any contact with them yet which means a years long standoff between MA and SISU.

See it’s the other way round, the club is pointless without the stadium, he’s better off doing the stadium deal first.

worst case scenario he’s left with an asset he can make money on. If he did it the other way round -and Didn’t get the stadium, he’d be left in a SISU situation

 

[djr8369]

How would a party obtain preferred bidder status?

 

[duffer]

I can't imagine Sisu being able to play hardball with Ashley. He's too rich and stubborn to put up with their games. They try to push their luck, Ashley will just tell them to trot on and we'll be footballing nomads again.

I think the only place I'd differ with that is that I'm not sure that the FA/EFL would be prepared to let us move again, given we've got eight years to sort it out. That will put SISU in a tight spot - build a new stadium, or sell to whoever owns the arena, or lose vast amounts on a new and more expensive rent deal in eight years time - or potentially liquidate the club and get nothing.

At some point, faced with this, SISU sell. It's the only way they recoup anything on their investment, imho.

 

[djr8369]

See it’s the other way round, the club is pointless without the stadium, he’s better off doing the stadium deal first.

worst case scenario he’s left with an asset he can make money on. If he did it the other way round -and Didn’t get the stadium, he’d be left in a SISU situation

Well that’s true enough but it doesn’t make getting the stadium before the club a good idea, just a less bad idea than getting the club first.

 

[torchomatic]

But Ashley has had links to Wasps.

Wasps apparently need to play in their ‘home’ for two years when reforming.

The fact that FRP have rushed this through without letting SISU have a sniff (if they were even interested) means it could be plausible.

I just want us to own a stake in the ground and not have them around. Not too much to ask.

*have to* and *can*/*will* are two separate things. I'm sure the RFU will change the rules and allow them to play wherever they like if it means they still exist as an entity. Hopefully that will be at least 100 miles away.

 

[Evo1883]

I think the only place I'd differ with that is that I'm not sure that the FA/EFL would be prepared to let us move again, given we've got eight years to sort it out. That will put SISU in a tight spot - build a new stadium, or sell to whoever owns the arena, or lose vast amounts on a new and more expensive rent deal in eight years time - or potentially liquidate the club and get nothing.

At some point, faced with this, SISU sell. It's the only way they recoup anything on their investment, imho.

I don't think they'd let us move again either

 

[jordan210]

There’s nothing stopping Ashley form walking away as preferred bidder, so I’d not discount admin just yet

 

[djr8369]

I think the only place I'd differ with that is that I'm not sure that the FA/EFL would be prepared to let us move again, given we've got eight years to sort it out. That will put SISU in a tight spot - build a new stadium, or sell to whoever owns the arena, or lose vast amounts on a new and more expensive rent deal in eight years time - or potentially liquidate the club and get nothing.

At some point, faced with this, SISU sell. It's the only way they recoup anything on their investment, imho.

They will surely hang around for years though getting what they can out of the club before they sell at a discount? Which means pain for fans.

 

[Evo1883]

Well that’s true enough but it doesn’t make getting the stadium before the club a good idea, just a less bad idea than getting the club first.

Depends what his plans are for the arena?

 

[Evo1883]

They will surely hang around for years though getting what they can out of the club before they sell at a discount? Which means pain for fans.

Why though ? What are they making from us ?

 

[djr8369]

There’s nothing stopping Ashley form walking away as preferred bidder, so I’d not discount admin just yet

Is it possible he’s going to use preferred bidder status as leverage to do a deal with SISU? Maybe that’s why there has been no contact, he wanted to strengthen his hand first?

 

[djr8369]

Why though ? What are they making from us ?

Interest from loans?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There is a clear choice facing SISU here

Either continue to keep subbing the club money to cover its losses and occasionally extract some when there’s a bigger sale, doing this until Seppalla dies and a loss is eventually realised. Or, take an offer now to get a fair bit more cash all at once and be rid of the hassle for the next however many years.

 

[Evo1883]

Interest from loans?

How much ? Just curious

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Interest from loans?

They put in £4.5 million this year to cover 21/22 losses

 

[hill83]

I reckon Big Mike will offer to buy the club, and pay what Sisu want as well.

 

[jordan210]

Is it possible he’s going to use preferred bidder status as leverage to do a deal with SISU? Maybe that’s why there has been no contact, he wanted to strengthen his hand first?

He could use the preferred bidder to do a whole load of research, pull out at last min then buy in admin if he wanted too.

There are still twists in this

 

[MAFF]

There’s nothing stopping Ashley form walking away as preferred bidder, so I’d not discount admin just yet

Yep…Derby had about 3 preferred bidders that entered into exclusivity talks.

 

[MAFF]

But anyway for what it’s worth I think Ashley will end up buying the club. Would be weird if he didn’t.

 

[SHUNT31]

*have to* and *can*/*will* are two separate things. I'm sure the RFU will change the rules and allow them to play wherever they like if it means they still exist as an entity. Hopefully that will be at least 100 miles away.

Oh I hope so too, believe me!

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

There is a clear choice facing SISU here

Either continue to keep subbing the club money to cover its losses and occasionally extract some when there’s a bigger sale, doing this until Seppalla dies and a loss is eventually realised. Or, take an offer now to get a fair bit more cash all at once and be rid of the hassle for the next however many years.

If Ashley offered say £20m for the club she'd have to go back to her investors, they couldn't turn it down surely

 

[zuni]

Or ma has used an intermediary with sisu so no direct contact

 

[skybluetony176]

I just can’t see how he would be interested in the Arena if he wasn’t interested in CCFC too. What concerns me is that he might be interested in Wasps too which means we haven’t seen the back of them. If what people are saying is true about Wasps having to play at least 2 years in where they last played this would mean MA is the only viable option for Wasps survival. On that basis you would think he could pick them up for peanuts so why wouldn’t he, it’s a fresh audience for the Sports Direct brand, it expands his interests in sport and so what if they can only sell 4000 tickets, just open only one stand like we have for the Johnson’s paint trophy games. Got a bad feeling we haven’t seen the last of Wasps.

 

[ajsccfc]

Will wasps be renting too then ? Or they deffo finished in Coventry?

That's one thing that I'm curious about, surely whoever is taking them over must see that this isn't the location for them, even more so if they're paying to rent a huge ground in a smaller division

 

[duffer]

Lease assignment in event of insolvency event clause. I guess they have to be onside to assign.

Ashley won’t be buying the company ACL, just the lease.

The council can't stop the reasonable assignment of the lease whomever buys it. And it looks to me like the admin process is intended to buy ACL as a going concern anyway.

I'm yet to see a convincing argument that the Council, whether they wanted to or not, could stop a sale to SISU if SISU had the funds or desire to buy the stadium.

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

What do we reckon it would cost Stadium and Club - 60M ?

 

[rexo87]

There’s nothing stopping Ashley form walking away as preferred bidder, so I’d not discount admin just yet

True, there’s a chance he’s become preferred bidder but will only go through with it if he gets a deal for the football club in the interim. This way he’s backed Sisu into a bit of a corner and may get a slightly lower price than if he had done it the other way round


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[The Philosopher]

See it’s the other way round, the club is pointless without the stadium, he’s better off doing the stadium deal first.

worst case scenario he’s left with an asset he can make money on. If he did it the other way round -and Didn’t get the stadium, he’d be left in a SISU situation

Hence I can see Wasps being back. If the rest of the arena business makes some money then why not have a little bit from Wasps.

Probably gets around some lease terms as well.

It’s how the CBS naming rights tie in that is interesting

Wasn’t that deal on the basis of CCFC being there?

If that deal breaks (might have penalty clause) then…