Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (63 Viewers)

[wingy]

I think it’s £60m - and that is leaving any assets (player contract values, training ground, toilet rolls, golden share) in the business and handing over the keys as it were. I think SISU get out of jail and tidy their books and historic losses for that.

Grendel suggests much less.

OSB - I’m unsure. “Could be £18m could be north of £100m”. (I’m being slightly tongue in cheek. Just slightly).

I go back to my point.
Were the co-sponsors of Sisu willing to put in £10M or £30M as part of the 50/50 transaction then that is the true value to Sisu.

 

---

[Johnnythespider]

Can you? I didn't know you could do that?

Bang goes Christmas

To be honest I don't know, I've done them each week as they load, I thought I'd just give him a heads up that they exist.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I think it’s £60m - and that is leaving any assets (player contract values, training ground, toilet rolls, golden share) in the business and handing over the keys as it were. I think SISU get out of jail and tidy their books and historic losses for that.

Grendel suggests much less.

OSB - I’m unsure. “Could be £18m could be north of £100m”. (I’m being slightly tongue in cheek. Just slightly).

The 60m quoted is the legacy debt that was bought for £1 - it’s a figure that’s there just to stop hostile takeovers. They’ll always control an Admin situation as they remain major creditor

buy Otium for 20m, the money they’ve put in. SISU then liquidate SBSL

 

[Grendel]

I think it’s £60m - and that is leaving any assets (player contract values, training ground, toilet rolls, golden share) in the business and handing over the keys as it were. I think SISU get out of jail and tidy their books and historic losses for that.

Grendel suggests much less.

OSB - I’m unsure. “Could be £18m could be north of £100m”. (I’m being slightly tongue in cheek. Just slightly).

I’m sure you are now wumming

 

[Johnnythespider]

Can you? I didn't know you could do that?

Bang goes Christmas

Just checked, you can't so Christmas is safe.

 

[The Philosopher]

The 60m quoted is the legacy debt that was bought for £1 - it’s a figure that’s there just to stop hostile takeovers. They’ll always control an Admin situation as they remain major creditor

buy Otium for 20m, the money they’ve put in. SISU then liquidate SBSL

Ok

So SISU would take £20m and pop the rest?

For a company wit revenues of £15m or whatever and with probably £25m worth of players, £5m of probable sell on clauses on the books and with a fluke chance of making the £100m Premiership jackpot.

Ok then.

I’d beg to differ.

 

[wingy]

Ok

So SISU would take £20m and pop the rest?

For a company wit revenues of £15m or whatever and with probably £25m worth of players, £5m of probable sell on clauses on the books and with a fluke chance of making the £100m Premiership jackpot.

Ok then.

I’d beg to differ.

Well yeah as outside of the loans, its funds and assets the club itself generates.

 

[djr8369]

No, I think the council were playing nicey nicey on the outside, rubbing their hands together thar the club were keeping acl out of admin, whilst talking to NEC/Mike Ashley to do a deal (possibly knowing SISU wouldn't attempt to do anything until asmin!??)

If that’s the case we will soon hear about I’m sure.

 

[Grendel]

Ok

So SISU would take £20m and pop the rest?

For a company wit revenues of £15m or whatever and with probably £25m worth of players, £5m of probable sell on clauses on the books and with a fluke chance of making the £100m Premiership jackpot.

Ok then.

I’d beg to differ.

Clueless

 

[The Philosopher]

Well yeah as outside of the loans its funds and assets the club itself generates.

Not sure what you’re driving at.

 

[oldskyblue58]

I have a feeling that Joy might have a different view on those losses never being recovered.

It's not about what she wants anymore if she wants out. Sisu are in a hole with limited options. Everyone knows that.

Anyone looking at buying the club will purchase the following not the shares.

The right to play golden share
The playing squad
The training ground on a current use basis not development basis.
The trademark
The website rights
Fixtures fittings and equipment.

There isn't much else. There is no stadium and whatever is left on the current lease or licence hasnt got a huge value and could even be circumvented in any case.

I do not see 60m in that list to be honest

Any buyer simply won't be interested in her investment losses. No buyer needs to look at how much she has " put in"

Sisu will use the losses across the portfolio. A very big chunk of which they have manufactured by clever use of group accounts in any case.

If she wants to sell, I doubt it will cover the losses in the group accounts. Certainly no one needs to purchase sbs&l

A buyer doesn't even need to buy otium or pay off the approx 20 m or so of loans in that company. In deed why would anyone buy a company withthe huge liabilities that sisu have built up( loans & pref shares)

Joy should have sold last season

 

[wingy]

Not sure what you’re driving at.

I think if it was investment in, rather than loans your viewpoint has more weight, but those numbers you quote on income and assets generated belong to and within the club really.

 

[The Philosopher]

It's not about what she wants anymore if she wants out. Sisu are in a hole with limited options. Everyone knows that.

Anyone looking at buying the club will purchase the following not the shares.

The right to play golden share
The playing squad
The training ground on a current use basis not development basis.
The trademark
The website rights
Fixtures fittings and equipment.

There isn't much else. There is no stadium and whatever is left on the current lease or licence hasnt got a huge value and could even be circumvented in any case.

I do not see 60m in that list to be honest

Any buyer simply won't be interested in her investment losses. No buyer needs to look at how much she has " put in"

Sisu will use the losses across the portfolio. A very big chunk of which they have manufactured by clever use of group accounts in any case.

If she wants to sell, I doubt it will cover the losses in the group accounts. Certainly no one needs to purchase sbs&l

A buyer doesn't even need to buy otium or pay off the approx 20 m or so of loans in that company

Joy should have sold last season

Elegantly and excellently filibustered.

What do you think the figure is (to the nearest £10m)?

I’m sticking to 60 for the reasons mentioned. So long as the company churns and has a jackpot chance I don’t see a firesale.

I’m genuinely curious to know what you think her eBay reserve price is on the Club.

 

[Nick]

What the fuck is filibustered?

 

[Nuskyblue]

What the fuck is filibustered?

Not sure, but I think I did this to my friends downstairs lav after a night on the ale.

 

[The Philosopher]

All
Parliament
Military

noun

1. 1.
   an action such as a prolonged speech that obstructs progress in a legislative assembly while not technically contravening the required procedures.
   
   
   (Talking around the houses)

 

[CCFC_Irish]

The longer SISU stay at Coventry the more they will lose and that loss will be increasing by the minute as they have no stadium ...essentially have nothing. Getting to the premiership is going to need significant investment and money needs to go into staying in the championship.


Sell players and the club loses value because they will slide.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Elegantly and excellently filibustered.

What do you think the figure is (to the nearest £10m)?

I’m sticking to 60 for the reasons mentioned. So long as the company churns and has a jackpot chance I don’t see a firesale.

I’m genuinely curious to know what you think her eBay reserve price is on the Club.

I don't care what her top and bottom figure is if she does indeed want out. It's not the important figure is it.

Personally I wouldn't pay more than 30m tops for the assets listed. But I would never buy a football club in the first place.

 

[oldskyblue58]

All
Parliament
Military

noun

1. 1.
   an action such as a prolonged speech that obstructs progress in a legislative assembly while not technically contravening the required procedures.
   
   
   (Talking around the houses)

I know what you meant, bit like throw a enough "ideas or angles" at a wall and see what sticks .......

 

[CCFC_Irish]

Ps. Did SISU bother themselves by even putting in a bid?

 

[Grendel]

What the fuck is filibustered?

ironically it’s what @The Philosopher does all the time

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

It's fairly irrelevant what "investment" has been made into any business, IF the owner decides to sell. The market will determine the value.

Unfortunately, if SISU value CCFC/Otium, etc at £60M they will not find a buyer. £30M seems far more realistic.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It's fairly irrelevant what "investment" has been made into any business, IF the owner decides to sell. The market will determine the value.

Unfortunately, if SISU value CCFC/Otium, etc at £60M they will not find a buyer. £30M seems far more realistic.

Seems exceptionally generous to be honest

 

[The Philosopher]

ironically it’s what @The Philosopher does all the time

No.

I’ve put my number on the roulette.

Waiting……

 

[The Philosopher]

Seems exceptionally generous to be honest

Not always.

Think negative equity mortgage but you are getting decent rental income and there’s a chance that HS2 is going to need to overpay in a few years.

Do you sell for less than you have loans against or sit tight?

 

[Nuskyblue]

How much did Sunderland go for this/last year?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not always.

Think negative equity mortgage but you are getting decent rental income and there’s a chance that HS2 is going to need to overpay in a few years.

Do you sell for less than you have loans against or sit tight?

Not comparable. After the sales of Gyo, Hamer and O'Hare there is nothing left to be extracted. Maybe fire sale all of them in January before pissing off

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

What the fuck is filibustered?

It's when someone talks for so long on something that it can't go forward to a vote.

It's basically used to obstruct motions in politics, the U.S. especially. Should be outlawed.

 

[olderskyblue]

What the fuck is filibustered?

It’s the sort of word that someone like, I dunno, Tim Fisher?, would use…

 

[Calista]

It's not about what she wants anymore if she wants out. Sisu are in a hole with limited options. Everyone knows that.

Anyone looking at buying the club will purchase the following not the shares.

The right to play golden share
The playing squad
The training ground on a current use basis not development basis.
The trademark
The website rights
Fixtures fittings and equipment.

There isn't much else. There is no stadium and whatever is left on the current lease or licence hasnt got a huge value and could even be circumvented in any case.

I do not see 60m in that list to be honest

Any buyer simply won't be interested in her investment losses. No buyer needs to look at how much she has " put in"

Sisu will use the losses across the portfolio. A very big chunk of which they have manufactured by clever use of group accounts in any case.

If she wants to sell, I doubt it will cover the losses in the group accounts. Certainly no one needs to purchase sbs&l

A buyer doesn't even need to buy otium or pay off the approx 20 m or so of loans in that company. In deed why would anyone buy a company withthe huge liabilities that sisu have built up( loans & pref shares)

Joy should have sold last season

I really hope she does 'want out', but where has that been said? The Times article a few months back suggested Sisu were looking for an investor to take the club on, but that was based on getting the Arena cheaply. Now that opportunity seems to have gone, could she just keep CCFC on life support out of bloody mindedness? That's my fear.

 

[The Philosopher]

It's when someone talks for so long on something that it can't go forward to a vote.

It's basically used to obstruct motions in politics, the U.S. especially. Should be outlawed.

Exactly

 

[Calista]

Exactly

But OSB wasn't guilty of it was he?

 

[oldskyblue58]

How much did Sunderland go for this/last year?

Reported at 42m

 

[The Philosopher]

But OSB wasn't guilty of it was he?

Still not got his approximation of what SISU would take as lowest offer.

Just curious.

 

[Calista]

It's when someone talks for so long on something that it can't go forward to a vote.

It's basically used to obstruct motions in politics, the U.S. especially. Should be outlawed.

I think they tried to outlaw it but ran out of debating time