Waghorn Taveres (2 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The worst was the simple pass across the pitch to either Doyle or panzo and he played it to their right wing back. Utterly shocking from a professional footballer

Equally frustrating is being offside at least once or twice despite having just come on.

 

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[shmmeee]

I think a big problem is Robins reluctance to use his subs, which means that fringe players rarely get minutes, which is why we always look so disjointed when we make subs. Cardiff used all 5 of there's, we used 2.

Tonight Waghorn didn't play well, and I would have thrown Tavares on, but he needs more minutes to get used to the system and find some rhythm.

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He’s reluctant because his subs are crap. When we’ve got players he trusts he uses them. There were no subs today that would have changed the game and that’s usually the case. We have a small, well drilled team and mostly subs for injuries that might affect that small group. It’s the same reason we don’t often change shape too much.

 

[Sick Boy]

But you can’t weaken the team on the pitch just to give him game time, if we get a few newbies in and Godden fit I’d loan him out to a division two outfit or even the non- league below that then a make a judgement in the summer

As I’ve said before, he should have gone on loan in the summer. People go on like he’s 17 or 18 but in reality he’s going on 22 and has hardly played league football considering his age.

 

[coop]

Waghorn is awful at least with Tav there is a bit of pace to get behind defenders.

 

[Sick Boy]

Waghorn is awful at least with Tav there is a bit of pace to get behind defenders.

By the time Waghorn was his age he was a regular starter for Leicester. He’s had a decent career, he’d be more suited to League One now though.

 

[GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee]

I can't believe I'm reading all this. Tonight was not the night for Tav. He's ideal to bring on with his pace to get in behind tired defenders but tonight they sat so deep it wouldn't have been possible. The mistake imo when Waghorn came on was taking off Sheaf and pushing Allen back, it should have been a defender for 4 at the back and an extra man in the middle.

This is my biggest frustration with MR. Obviously he gets so much right, but he sticks with 5 at the back regardless when chasing a game. Against the Blades I think Panzo for Tavares happened on about 85 minutes, and they’d been down to 10 and we were 2 down. Ironically the most frustrated I’ve been was in the reverse fixture last season when we were 1 down, and they then scored a second late on with a big ball over the top. If we’re gonna concede goals like that with 5 at the back, you may as well do it with 4 and chase the game with more players further up the pitch


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[Esoterica]

In the absence of O'Hare, and against a Cardiff team lacking confidence, I would have started Waghorn over Palmer last night so that Waghorn got much needed minutes and so that we had a decent attacking change up in midfield for the 2nd half.
Whether you think Waghorn is shit or not, he's one of very few senior professionals on our bench and unless this takeover happens and King has actually got some money to invest, or we sell Gyokeres early in the window and manage to bring 3 or 4 new faces in, we're going to have to use him.

I think Robins is going to have to have a long hard think about continuing with the box midfield too without O'Hare in it. Don't think Allen and Palmer will ever be consistently effective together in it.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

In the absence of O'Hare, and against a Cardiff team lacking confidence, I would have started Waghorn over Palmer last night so that Waghorn got much needed minutes and so that we had a decent attacking change up in midfield for the 2nd half.
Whether you think Waghorn is shit or not, he's one of very few senior professionals on our bench and unless this takeover happens and King has actually got some money to invest, or we sell Gyokeres early in the window and manage to bring 3 or 4 new faces in, we're going to have to use him.

I think Robins is going to have to have a long hard think about continuing with the box midfield too without O'Hare in it. Don't think Allen and Palmer will ever be consistently effective together in it.

The way we started to win earlier in the season was to play with two strikers. Godden and Gyökeres. The problem is, unless you play Waghorn (or Tavares), we haven't got another striker at the moment.

We can win without COH, but I agree with you regarding the box. Continue to play it with Allen and Palmer and I can't see us getting anywhere.

 

[shmmeee]

In the absence of O'Hare, and against a Cardiff team lacking confidence, I would have started Waghorn over Palmer last night so that Waghorn got much needed minutes and so that we had a decent attacking change up in midfield for the 2nd half.
Whether you think Waghorn is shit or not, he's one of very few senior professionals on our bench and unless this takeover happens and King has actually got some money to invest, or we sell Gyokeres early in the window and manage to bring 3 or 4 new faces in, we're going to have to use him.

I think Robins is going to have to have a long hard think about continuing with the box midfield too without O'Hare in it. Don't think Allen and Palmer will ever be consistently effective together in it.

Its not even really the box. Allen drops too deep and Palmer plays too high and the wingbacks are too deep. It’s more 5311 than 3421.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I mean he doesn't even make the top 10

I think he is on the basis of his cost relative to his contribution on the pitch

 

[fernandopartridge]

Honestly, Waghorn has done worse for us than Cody, Beacon and Reid. Eastwood was better but he cost £££

Hughes cost a lot but did score 15 goals

 

[pusbccfc]

Hughes cost a lot but did score 15 goals

Waghorn costs us loads in wages and never scores. He's definitely one of our worst signings for a long time.

 

[SAJ]

The way we started to win earlier in the season was to play with two strikers. Godden and Gyökeres. The problem is, unless you play Waghorn (or Tavares), we haven't got another striker at the moment.

We can win without COH, but I agree with you regarding the box. Continue to play it with Allen and Palmer and I can't see us getting anywhere.

Bit of a distorted view of the past few months. Godden and Gyokeres played 13 matches together got 13 points. The next 12 playing one striker 21 points.

 

[Grendel]

In no particular order

Lee Hughes
Tim Sherwood
Kevin Kyle
Leon McKenzie
Freddie Eastwood
Cody McDonald
Stuart Beavon
Kyel Reid
Chris Birchall
Arjan de Zeeuw

I could go on at some length but I think 10 is sufficient

Hughes to be fair was a lot better than waghorn. Even McDonald scored some goals.

 

[Kilclines curly mullet]

Let’s try to put some context to Waghorn

Played the first 10 games or so last season, played his part in a great start alongside Gykores
2 months out with a shoulder injury
Badly affected by Covid
Only given cameo appearances off the bench
Cannot get a game upfront due to Gykores and Godden scoring regularly

This season
We play one upfront and that striker is the leagues top goalscorer leaving n9 opportunity to play upfront
6 weeks out with a hamstring injury
When given game time its 10 mins here and there playing in a number 10 role which isn’t his position

No doubt he has struggled but with such a stop start career here is it all his fault ?

 

[clint van damme]

Let’s try to put some context to Waghorn

Played the first 10 games or so last season, played his part in a great start alongside Gykores
2 months out with a shoulder injury
Badly affected by Covid
Only given cameo appearances off the bench
Cannot get a game upfront due to Gykores and Godden scoring regularly

This season
We play one upfront and that striker is the leagues top goalscorer leaving n9 opportunity to play upfront
6 weeks out with a hamstring injury
When given game time its 10 mins here and there playing in a number 10 role which isn’t his position

No doubt he has struggled but with such a stop start career here is it all his fault ?

You're right about his start, I was impressed with him.
But its been down hill since then. I think covid really hit him badly.
I think we need to try and get rid and free up his wages but I doubt we'll be able to.

 

[Sick Boy]

You're right about his start, I was impressed with him.
But its been down hill since then. I think covid really hit him badly.
I think we need to try and get rid and free up his wages but I doubt we'll be able to.

Agree on this - some of the abuse he gets is unwarranted though.

 

[stupot07]

The worst was the simple pass across the pitch to either Doyle or panzo and he played it to their right wing back. Utterly shocking from a professional footballer

To be fair, Bidwell should have been there. The ball was the right one but Bidwell was out of position. It looked terrible though.

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[Kilclines curly mullet]

Agree on this - some of the abuse he gets is unwarranted though.

You're right about his start, I was impressed with him.
But its been down hill since then. I think covid really hit him badly.
I think we need to try and get rid and free up his wages but I doubt we'll be able to.

He will be here until the end of the season and then move on.
His move will be deemed unsuccessful however some of the stick he gets is OTT in my opinion.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Hughes to be fair was a lot better than waghorn. Even McDonald scored some goals.

Waghorn has suffered with COVID and a series of long term injuries. Hughes was fully fit and cost us a net £2.5 million in the space of a season at a time when we were already heavily in debt.

McDonald scored 8 in 47 and cost a fair whack relative to what else we spent that season. Hilssner as I said elsewhere has cost us £750k over his contract and not played a single game.

 

[Grendel]

Waghorn has suffered with COVID and a series of long term injuries. Hughes was fully fit and cost us a net £2.5 million in the space of a season at a time when we were already heavily in debt.

McDonald scored 8 in 47 and cost a fair whack relative to what else we spent that season. Hilssner as I said elsewhere has cost us £750k over his contract and not played a single game.

if we had hughes contribution this season we’d be in the top 6 along with Gyokeres I’m afraid waghorn has offered zero contribution here it’s been an awful signing

 

[Deleted member 9744]

By the time Waghorn was his age he was a regular starter for Leicester. He’s had a decent career, he’d be more suited to League One now though.

It doesn't matter what Waghorn was like when he was in his early 20s. We have the current version and he has been disastrous. That pass to no one last night wasn't the play of a League 1 player. His atrocious appearance at Sheffield United wasn't either. Would be a very foolish League 1 team that took him on.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

I'd give Tavares a try in OHare's position, nothing to lose. Tell him to buzz around like OHare does just behind Gyokeres. He's pacy with bags of energy and it's a role he might just grow into.

 

[SBT]

I'd give Tavares a try in OHare's position, nothing to lose.

Except whichever game we try this in, most likely.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Let’s try to put some context to Waghorn

Played the first 10 games or so last season, played his part in a great start alongside Gykores
2 months out with a shoulder injury
Badly affected by Covid
Only given cameo appearances off the bench
Cannot get a game upfront due to Gykores and Godden scoring regularly

This season
We play one upfront and that striker is the leagues top goalscorer leaving n9 opportunity to play upfront
6 weeks out with a hamstring injury
When given game time its 10 mins here and there playing in a number 10 role which isn’t his position

No doubt he has struggled but with such a stop start career here is it all his fault ?

I don't know why Waghorn gets so much support compared yo players like Walker and Biamou. He has been hopeless. I didn't even think he was good at getting start of last season. He was seen as ok because the team was doing well but he scored one goal. People credited him for Gyokeres form but I think that was all due to Gyokeres himself and had nothing to do with Waghorn.

 

[PVA]

Waghorn and Walker have no future at the club that much seems obvious.

Assuming Gyokeres leaves in the summer we're going to need to sign 3 strikers before next season. Godden can have one more year as backup.

 

[Warwickhunt]

Waghorn was shite. I too would like to see tavares given more minutes.

If he ain't good enough he ain't good enough but I don't get the sense robins has no faith in him full stop.

Waghorn hopefully get better with more minutes.

It annoys me how we always seem to lose our flow when we go 2 up tho. we shud be familiir with.

i think its a case of trying to get value for money cos Waggy will be on some wedge just to sit out his contract

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Bit of a distorted view of the past few months. Godden and Gyokeres played 13 matches together got 13 points. The next 12 playing one striker 21 points.

It isn't my view that is distorted. You aren't looking at the timelines.

We did eventually put a good string of points together over a spell whilst O'Hare was out, and this is how we did it.

 

[ccfc1234]

Waghorn was the wrong choice. Taraves is erratic and fast and might have got round the back of their defensive line with pace alone or at least created space with a run for Vik. Waghorn was a static problem for the compact Cardiff defence and did everything in front of them, just as they wanted.

 

[Sick Boy]

Waghorn and Walker have no future at the club that much seems obvious.

Assuming Gyokeres leaves in the summer we're going to need to sign 3 strikers before next season. Godden can have one more year as backup.

Hasn’t Godden got another 2 years left after this one?

 

[stevefloyd]

At the moment imo Tavares ain’t good enough.

And Waghorn !

 

[Cata]

Who would you play in midfield instead of bidwell pal

burroughs

 

[PVA]

Hasn’t Godden got another 2 years left after this one?

Can't remember exactly but I meant he can have another year as backup and then move him on.

 

[Cata]

I really think Taveres should have come on tonight instead of Waghorn. Since he has been here what has he done (or did MR think we would get a penalty eventually and better him than Vic?
As for Taveres, he may or may not make the cut, but unless you give him a go how do you know?
I thought tonight was the ideal time to bring him on.
Nothing was working against their 10 defensive players, so maybe try some pace to get behind them and cross to Vic to get a proper chance and score.
With Cardiff happy for a point it was the right time to try him and see if he really offers something different.
If it never worked fine, neither did Waghorn but he will be gone at the end of the season, Taveres could still be here so let's see what he offers to the team.
I know many will say the new Ponticelli, but until he has a chance how do we know?
5-10 mins here and there will show nothing (many players have been shit in training, but been great in game time), either give him a go or fuck him off so you don't destroy his career.
Tonight, Waghorn came on, what does he offer?
We don't play him in the U21's/U23's whatever it is now ( so how does he get match fit and continue to learn)?.
By sitting on the bench and never playing how will he get better, or us learn anything about him in a match situation?

Very true. Waghorn does not need me to explain his poor play, he demonstrates it for all to see. You make the point well about his match fitness and learning his trade, but for me he must have his self confidence shot to pieces. To see Waghorn (and when fit - Walker) constantly put ahead of him, and go on and do nothing, must be soul destroying. If MR won't play him, he should go out on loan to prove himself. The comparison with Ponticelli is a bit unfair, as Jordan had quite a few opportunities before he was let go.

 

[Cata]

I know it's a mistake but what is snonfsith ? prob just me being dumb.

no faith ?