Fans Forum questions??? (8 Viewers)

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I very much hope Thursday evening isn't characterised by the usual anodyne questions from the normal suspects. In order to understand the thought process of those at the very top of the club, there are some proper answers I'd like to hear answered honestly, instead of vague platitudes and/or a party political conference message.

Any 'searching' questions you'd like posed? Mine would include:

1) Thorn appears magnanimous since leaving the club. Has he been subject to a pay-off linked to his silence? If so, why?

2) The CET reported that Thorn's main two transfer targets, including James Collins, couldn't join the club due to the transfer embargo. Mr Waggott, knowing how SISU's restrictions surrounding the club prohibited your ability to do your job properly, do you feel any unease with regards your role in judging another similarly effected employee's performance?

3) If your trust in Andy Thorn was so gossamer-thin as to be exhausted after 3 unbeaten games; what was the point of starting the season with him?

 

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[skyblueman]

You won't get anything remotely honest or straight from these two

Even Paxman would struggle with these

 

[oldskyblue58]

MMM i fear you are going to be disappointed

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

MMM i fear you are going to be disappointed

It's an emotion I'm become accustomed to with regards anything slanted toward CCFC.....

 

[skyblueinBaku]

Nice thought, MMM, but the best you would get is 'undisclosed'. I wouldn't trust anyone on the board to tell me what the weather is like unless I could look out of a window and see for myself.

 

[Nick]

Are people still going on about Collins? If he REALLY wanted to come he would have waited a couple of days until the Embargo was up. I am pretty sure he got a better package at Swindon...

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Are people still going on about Collins? If he REALLY wanted to come he would have waited a couple of days until the Embargo was up. I am pretty sure he got a better package at Swindon...

That's not the point Nick. If you read the editorial surrounding the move, he stated he got fed up of waiting and then got a call from Swindon.

He shouldn't have to wait for a transfer embargo to be lifted - ignoring all other suitors - until he can join our club when he has a choice of others.

The fact that he did wait, and then got the call from Swindon meant that Thorn was not able to secure his number one target. That, you have to agree, is a limitation upon Thorn, or any manager for that matter as we don't want to personalise this to Thorn, doing his job the way he would wish. As such, SISU's actions prohibited him doing his job as freely as he wanted.

Waggott would have been acutely aware of these limitations, and as such, I feel a touch of duplicity tinges his subsequent actions and comments

 

[skyblueman]

That's not the point Nick. If you read the editorial surrounding the move, he stated he got fed up of waiting and then got a call from Swindon.

He shouldn't have to wait for a transfer embargo to be lifted - ignoring all other suitors - until he can join our club when he has a choice of others.

The fact that he did wait, and then got the call from Swindon meant that Thorn was not able to secure his number one target. That, you have to agree, is a limitation upon Thorn, or any manager for that matter as we don't want to personalise this to Thorn, doing his job the way he would wish. As such, SISU's actions prohibited him doing his job as freely as he wanted.

Waggott would have been acutely aware of these limitations, and as such, I feel a touch of duplicity tinges his subsequent actions and comments

All perfectly reasonable this I agree

What guiles me most is the way Fisher & Waggot seem to be Teflon coated when it comes to criticism of the clubs management when clearly they are both responsible for the manager of the team and the structure he works within - AF for all his flaws has been made to be a bit of a scapegoat and I do not think that is particularly fair

 

[ccfcway]

I'd go for....

"I have been a CCFC fan since 1985 and have spent more in that time supporting my team than I have on my mortgage. In that time, we have done NOTHING, other than a one off cup win. I have never seen us challange for play offs, and in 2012 we have only won 3 games. Our team never looks fit, and the crowds are down to 9,500 and falling, with the talk of Phil Brown coming...

How the fcuk can I look through the square window of positivity"

 

[SBS]

I've heard from a reliable source that Collins never wanted to come here after the way the club treated him before he signed for Villa...

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

At Faggot and Wisher...

"As Development Director and Chief Executive respectively... please can you explain your credentials to maintain these positions. Since your tenure in these roles the club has been relegated a division, has no manager ,is in significant dispute with its landlords, and shows no sign of recovery, financial or other, none of which can be viewed as endorsements on your next CV's... on this basis we the fans have no confidence in you as a management team and would call for your instant resignations"...
your reaction please?

 

[oldskyblue58]

on the basis that i already know their answers ....... "thats commercially sensitive and we cant answer" or " talks remain on going and it wouldnt be professional to answer that" ......... I am going to pass on asking anything.

Just more PR playing at transparency if you ask me

 

[skyblueman]

at faggot and wisher...

"as development director and chief executive respectively... Please can you explain your credentials to maintain these positions. Since your tenure in these roles the club has been relegated a division, has no manager ,is in significant dispute with its landlords, and shows no sign of recovery, financial or other, none of which can be viewed as endorsements on your next cv's... On this basis we the fans have no confidence in you as a management team and would call for your instant resignations"...
Your reaction please?

bang on the money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[skyblueinBaku]

At Faggot and Wisher...

"As Development Director and Chief Executive respectively... please can you explain your credentials to maintain these positions. Since your tenure in these roles the club has been relegated a division, has no manager ,is in significant dispute with its landlords, and shows no sign of recovery, financial or other, none of which can be viewed as endorsements on your next CV's... on this basis we the fans have no confidence in you as a management team and would call for your instant resignations"...
your reaction please?

That question would get you thrown out of the forum - but not before the smug look was wiped from Fisher's face!

 

[theprince]

Mr Fisher. In April of this year we went into the Peterborough home game out of the bottom 3 for the first time in months and with only 6 games to go an injection of one or two loans players may have helped save the day. This wasn't acted upon despite the fact you employed an old friend Steve Waggott to help Andy Thorn secure some players. Why was this not done, why did you feel fit to employ a friend rather than a fotballer and was relegation part of the sisu survival plan, to reduce wages etc, etc. And last but not least why when some local business men offered to fund the cost of a couple of loans was this offer dismissed by YOU

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I've heard from a reliable source that Collins never wanted to come here after the way the club treated him before he signed for Villa...

Not what he told BBC Wiltshire old boy: "Coventry's my hometown and it would have been a honour to play for them. But we know they're in embargo difficulties...."

But let's not get hung up on Collins; David Syers was the other name on Thorn's wish list - but who plumped for Doncaster with us in embargo.

The point I'm making is that the embargo prohibited the club from signing the manager's players of choice. Waggott - knowing it was his job to deliver such players, and being unable to do so until late in June - would have been aware of the frustrations of losing such prime choices, and therefore the effect of SISU's policy on any given manager and his ability to do his job. For him then to sit pious as judge and jury thereafter strikes me a touch of hypocrisy.

If I were Thorn - and I'm not condoning this, but giving a illustration, I'd consider going public with my thoughts with regards my prime targets being missed, and looking at Collins 3 goals so far this term, and Syers 2 - as well as 4 assists between them - I'd ask if they could have turned one of those three league draws into a win? And if so, wondering if I'd still have got the sack. But he hasn't - hence 'question 1'.....

 

[skyblueman]

Not what he told BBC Wiltshire old boy: "Coventry's my hometown and it would have been a honour to play for them. But we know they're in embargo difficulties...."

But let's not get hung up on Collins; David Syers was the other name on Thorn's wish list - but who plumped for Doncaster with us in embargo.

The point I'm making is that the embargo prohibited the club from signing the manager's players of choice. Waggott - knowing it was his job to deliver such players, and being unable to do so until late in June - would have been aware of the frustrations of losing such prime choices, and therefore the effect of SISU's policy on any given manager and his ability to do his job. For him then to sit pious as judge and jury thereafter strikes me a touch of hypocrisy.

If I were Thorn - and I'm not condoning this, but giving a illustration, I'd consider going public with my thoughts with regards my prime targets being missed, and looking at Collins 3 goals so far this term, and Syers 2 - as well as 4 assists between them - I'd ask if they could have turned one of those three league draws into a win? And if so, wondering if I'd still have got the sack. But he hasn't - hence 'question 1'.....

He's had to agree to keep mum as part of this pay-off - it's pretty standard

 

[theprince]

Andy Thorn is probably still on the payroll and being paid as an employee until a certain date so to come out bellyaching about Fisher, sisu or whoever would probably earn him instant dismisal and cost him, Fisher would just deny it

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Andy Thorn is probably still on the payroll and being paid as an employee until a certain date so to come out bellyaching about Fisher, sisu or whoever would probably earn him instant dismisal and cost him, Fisher would just deny it

Even though described as 'opaque' and 'secretive' in a national paper this week, would SISU's appointed spokesman tell a lie to a direct question? Surely not?!?

 

[oldskyblue58]

this is what the sky blue trust want answered

1 What is the actual level of debt that Coventry City FC currently owe and who are the major creditors?
2 How much is the club still losing each month even though the wage bill has been slashed and no rent has been paid?
3 Will the money that the club is contractually obligated to pay but has refused to do so during the 'negotiations' ever been paid, or will ACL, a company belonging to the citizens of Coventry and a Coventry based charity be deprived of £0.75m it is owed?
4 The Gael Bigirimana and Richard Keogh transfers have generated up front cash payments. Where specifically has this revenue been allocated to within the business.
5 Will SISU continue to fund the club next season, even if they do not gain control of the stadium or promotion is not achieved.
6 The club's debt is now owed via a debenture to AVRO, a SISU owned company in the Caymen Islands - is the purpose of this to give preferential creditor status in the eyes of an administrator or to maximise any returns in the event of liquidation?

taken from CovMad website

Would comment as follows if anyone from the trust is reading this

- Do you mean the debt in CCFC or the true debt of the whole group. We already know that the inter company account in CCFC was not adjusted downwards for the amount of £35m discounted by SISU on the debts they bought in to. It is the debt in SBS&L thats important. If they say its nearly all SISU - how is it split between SISU, Sconset or ARVO or has it all now been transferred to ARVO

- Rent is still accrueing and due so do you mean loss or the cash flow short fall each month. You see in theory the losses could be significantly smaller because of the player sales but the cash flow shortage somewhat more than the current loss

- Rent was paid from the Escrow account - has this been topped back as required by court. Also as 13th was ACL deadline how did they get on in settling the situation.

- Fair question as to where transfer money went ...... when do we get the balance and how much received up front though ? Was the money used to fund the academy?

- Why would SISU have made a decision on next season when they have only just made a decision on this one ? How could they make a decision when they dont know the figures?

- First off its ARVO not AVRO. Do ARVO charge interest now or is there an expectation they will - if so at what rate? (the details should be in the notes to next accounts so commercial confidentiality is not a good answer) How much is owed to ARVO. Clearly they have put the charge there so that anyone interested in buying the club has to deal with them but what is the gap between the asset value and the amount outstanding

final point - do they (TF & Co) believe they are truly being transparent about CCFC affairs ? (try not to laugh when you get the reply to that one)

edit - of course you wont be allowed to ask much of this and those questions you do get to ask will be washed over, not really answered. Which is why I havent tried to attend the Forum tomorrow

 

[oldskyblue58]

Andy Thorn is probably still on the payroll and being paid as an employee until a certain date so to come out bellyaching about Fisher, sisu or whoever would probably earn him instant dismisal and cost him, Fisher would just deny it

for once i have got to agree with you ........... strange old world aint it !

 

[crowsnest]

Mr Fisher. In April of this year we went into the Peterborough home game out of the bottom 3 for the first time in months and with only 6 games to go an injection of one or two loans players may have helped save the day. This wasn't acted upon despite the fact you employed an old friend Steve Waggott to help Andy Thorn secure some players. Why was this not done, why did you feel fit to employ a friend rather than a fotballer and was relegation part of the sisu survival plan, to reduce wages etc, etc. And last but not least why when some local business men offered to fund the cost of a couple of loans was this offer dismissed by YOU

Wasn't the transfer embargo still in place?

 

[Bertola]

Mr Fisher. In April of this year we went into the Peterborough home game out of the bottom 3 for the first time in months and with only 6 games to go an injection of one or two loans players may have helped save the day. This wasn't acted upon despite the fact you employed an old friend Steve Waggott to help Andy Thorn secure some players. Why was this not done, why did you feel fit to employ a friend rather than a fotballer and was relegation part of the sisu survival plan, to reduce wages etc, etc. And last but not least why when some local business men offered to fund the cost of a couple of loans was this offer dismissed by YOU

The loan window closed at the end of March...

 

[skyblueman]

As a serious question I would like to ask Fisher if we do not manage to gain promotion this season do you intend to sell players to balance the books? (assuming of course we have a few that perform well enough to be of any significant value)

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I'd like to know why they feel now is the right time to host a fans' forum when they're supposed to be making one of the most important managerial appointments in recent years. :thinking about:

 

[skyblueman]

I'd like to know why they feel now is the right time to host a fans' forum when they're supposed to be making one of the most important managerial appointments in recent years. :thinking about:

Probably because some high-brow bullshit management book of how to be a "Football Club Chief Executive" tells them too 'connect with their customers' from time to time

Honestly I really don't know why on earth they are bothering as I'm sure as hell they aint doing it for our benefit - it will be a bloody joke meeting

 

[blueflint]

I very much hope Thursday evening isn't characterised by the usual anodyne questions from the normal suspects. In order to understand the thought process of those at the very top of the club, there are some proper answers I'd like to hear answered honestly, instead of vague platitudes and/or a party political conference message.

Any 'searching' questions you'd like posed? Mine would include:

1) Thorn appears magnanimous since leaving the club. Has he been subject to a pay-off linked to his silence? If so, why?

2) The CET reported that Thorn's main two transfer targets, including James Collins, couldn't join the club due to the transfer embargo. Mr Waggott, knowing how SISU's restrictions surrounding the club prohibited your ability to do your job properly, do you feel any unease with regards your role in judging another similarly effected employee's performance?

3) If your trust in Andy Thorn was so gossamer-thin as to be exhausted after 3 unbeaten games; what was the point of starting the season with him?

4)who's the new manager you missed that one m8

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Then they should do it *after* the new manager has been hired-heck, they could even have held a forum with the new man also present. Oh well.

 

[wingy]

Surely its because they now feel secure enough to try it ,as sure as they finally felt secure enough to sack AT .There was still enough antipathy at the end of the season to make them nervous of upsetting the remaining ST holders ,but having a summer of 9 new recruits kept sales just 1500 under the 2010-11 level ,they feel emboldened by how successfully they've swung fan oppinion in their favour,i'm convinced they'll major on the Rent and ACL/Higgs purchase .Tommorrow the 13th had some significance in the media re-rent situation ,thinking the Escrows run dry and this is Due date,and from what PKWH posted recently we're very close to his belief that a sale to them would sink or swim.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Just strikes me as poor time management Wingy when holding the forum with the new manager present makes a lot more sense and doesn't detract from a more pressing matter.

 

[theprince]

The loan window closed at the end of March...

We were out of the bottom three on the 31st of March following our win at Hull and the previous week beating Portsmouth put us on the verge of climbing out of the relegation spots. What date did the window close then ?

 

[wingy]

Just strikes me as poor time management Wingy when holding the forum with the new manager present makes a lot more sense and doesn't detract from a more pressing matter.

I think you're right here BSB ,Its more the timeline of the recruitment of manager thats lagging ,maybe when they announced the forum the envisaged having him in place.:facepalm:

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Given ACL is a joint venture between the council and the Higgs Trust, which in effect equates to the hard working tax-payers of Coventry and a charitable trust; I might be tempted to ask them - as a Mayfair-based hedge-fund, fronted by two men who probably had to have Coventry pointed out to them on a map when they were gifted their jobs here: how do you square the moral issue of reneging on a contract?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think you're right here BSB ,Its more the timeline of the recruitment of manager thats lagging ,maybe when they announced the forum the envisaged having him in place.:facepalm:

I'd wager they were expecting Shaw to win both the league games and have more of an excuse to hire him quickly.

 

[dongonzalos]

I'd wager they were expecting Shaw to win both the league games and have more of an excuse to hire him quickly.

Completely agree. Top his wage up very slightly. Job done.