Do you want to discuss boring politics? (199 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

Wow he was really stupid enough to say it out loud.

Braverman was just as bad. Basically trashed her own policies.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Braverman was just as bad. Basically trashed her own policies.

I didn’t think it was possible for someone to be more odious than Priti Patel. She manages easily.

 

[skybluetony176]

I didn’t think it was possible for someone to be more odious than Priti Patel. She manages easily.

Someone once said Braverman is what happens when you feed Priti Patel after midnight.

 

[skybluetony176]

Apparently Ferage has admitted that brexit has failed. Anyone heard the comments? Know the context?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Apparently Ferage has admitted that brexit has failed. Anyone heard the comments? Know the context?

Only due to how it’s been done not the decision itself

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Nigel Farage admits Brexit has ‘failed’

Former Ukip leader says ministers have failed to take advantage of leaving the EU

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Sick Boy]

It’s mad the UK is still so consumed by Brexit and how much better focus could and should have been used elsewhere.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Uk gdp smaller by 4% than if we’d stayed in the eu
That’s a lot of £350m a week
Poisonous toxic disingenuous wankers like him annoy me

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s mad the UK is still so consumed by Brexit and how much better focus could and should have been used elsewhere.

That’s what the culture war nonsense was always about. Keep people distracted from who is really at fault and what the real problems to solve are.

 

[skybluetony176]

Only due to how it’s been done not the decision itself

Who knows what that’s supposed to mean, he went from being an advocate of being a Norway to Brexit must be the hardest of Brexits in less than a 24hour period. I literally went to bed with him saying he’d love it if we could be like Norway and woke up to the leave result and Farage coining the phrase out means out on national television. He’s got something in between the 2, how can it not be a success based on what he campaigned for and what he declared it meant the next day. Chief smoke blower.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I literally went to bed with him saying he’d love it

This explains a lot

 

[skybluetony176]

It’s mad the UK is still so consumed by Brexit and how much better focus could and should have been used elsewhere.

It’s such a negative on the UK economy it’s never going to go away.

 

[fatso]

What’s your plan then? Fill the gaps by stamping out benefit fraud?

Maybe start with not promising what you know full well you cant deliver.

 

[Ian1779]

Wow he was really stupid enough to say it out loud.

Because he knows absolutely nothing will happen. You wonder if once upon a time it would be the end of his political career but no one even seems bothered.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Because he knows absolutely nothing will happen. You wonder if once upon a time it would be the end of his political career but no one even seems bothered.

I’d have thought ‘let the bodies pile high’ would do the same for the clown.

 

[duffer]

Remember this debacle

‘I’m afraid there is no money.’ The letter I will regret for ever | Liam Byrne

Liam Byrne, chief secretary to the Treasury under Gordon Brown, left a note for his successor that proved to be a gift for the Conservatives

www.theguardian.com

Now I ain't backing the tories, as they've proved to be shite, but let's not forget the Labour Party were equally funking inept.

And you'll have to excuse me for reminding you that you backed Corbyn for fuck sake, and look how we'll he did for Labour!!!
So if there's no helping anyone. It's you.

Its a myth that non doms pay no tax, they actually pay 30 grand a year to the tax man to have non domestic status. If you've been living in the UK for more than 12 years that 30k rises to 60k per year. So non doms pay more tax per year than most people earn. On top of the 30k or 60k they also pay additional tax on any earnings made within the UK.

That might only be a fraction of their wealth, but my guess is its a lot more than me and you combined will pay.

Removing that non domestic status, doesn't suddenly create more money, as the wealthy will just move to more advantageous tax locations, (like Richard Branson did)
So in the end, the treasury actually gets less money, not more money.

Actually this independent study suggests completely the opposite with regard to non-dom tax status.

In broad brush terms, it suggests that non-dom status costs us plenty of revenue (3.2 billion p.a.), and there's no evidence to suggest that removing it would lead to anything like the exodus you're suggesting.

"researchers calculate that only 0.3% of those affected would leave the country (fewer than 100 people), most of whom are paying hardly any tax under the current regime"

Abolishing the non-dom regime would raise more than £3.2 billion each year, finds new report

Non-domiciled residents in the UK (

www.lse.ac.uk

 

[fatso]

Actually this independent study suggests completely the opposite with regard to non-dom tax status.

In broad brush terms, it suggests that non-dom status costs us plenty of revenue (3.2 billion p.a.), and there's no evidence to suggest that removing it would lead to anything like the exodus you're suggesting.

"researchers calculate that only 0.3% of those affected would leave the country (fewer than 100 people), most of whom are paying hardly any tax under the current regime"

Abolishing the non-dom regime would raise more than £3.2 billion each year, finds new report

Non-domiciled residents in the UK (

www.lse.ac.uk

That's based on very suspect data from non dom status changes dating from 2017, where changes were made to people who were already long term residents in the UK, and therefore highly unlikely to leave.

Extrapolating the same data, to cover the total removal of non domestic status for all who currently claim it is very highly suspect IMHO.

 

[skybluetony176]

Actually this independent study suggests completely the opposite with regard to non-dom tax status.

In broad brush terms, it suggests that non-dom status costs us plenty of revenue (3.2 billion p.a.), and there's no evidence to suggest that removing it would lead to anything like the exodus you're suggesting.

"researchers calculate that only 0.3% of those affected would leave the country (fewer than 100 people), most of whom are paying hardly any tax under the current regime"

Abolishing the non-dom regime would raise more than £3.2 billion each year, finds new report

Non-domiciled residents in the UK (

www.lse.ac.uk

Where are they going to go for starters? The world is not awash with countries offering non dom status. In fact it seems to be a hangover from colonialism. The handful of countries that do offer non dom status seem to be former British colonies.

 

[duffer]

That's based on very suspect data from non dom status changes dating from 2017, where changes were made to people who were already long term residents in the UK, and therefore highly unlikely to leave.

Extrapolating the same data, to cover the total removal of non domestic status for all who currently claim it is very highly suspect IMHO.

I appreciate you're offering it as an opinion rather than fact, which is fair enough, but it's a fairly solidly put together study.

Let's say you're right though, even then the cohort that *might* leave would presumably be those newly claiming non-dom status from 2017 onwards.

I don't know how many there are, but an awful lot of people would have to leave at the 30-60k threshold to cover the suggested 3.2bn the authors propose that could be gained.

I can't find any evidence that suggests that removing non-dom status would negatively impact tax revenues, but maybe it's out there.

I suspect that in truth the government's reluctance to act is more based on ideology and donor pressure than worries about impact on revenues. That too, is imho of course.

 

[skybluetony176]

I appreciate you're offering it as an opinion rather than fact, which is fair enough, but it's a fairly solidly put together study.

Let's say you're right though, even then the cohort that *might* leave would presumably be those newly claiming non-dom status from 2017 onwards.

I don't know how many there are, but an awful lot of people would have to leave at the 30-60k threshold to cover the suggested 3.2bn the authors propose that could be gained.

I can't find any evidence that suggests that removing non-dom status would negatively impact tax revenues, but maybe it's out there.

I suspect that in truth the government's reluctance to act is more based on ideology and donor pressure than worries about impact on revenues. That too, is imho of course.

The government has regularly trotted out the line that scrapping non dom status would stall investment in the UK. Presumably more than it is already stalling despite the availability of non dom status. Thing is the government doesn’t have any figures for how much investment would be lost and quite deliberately. It’s a mechanism designed to keep investment out of the UK, pure and simple. They’re blowing smoke up people’s arse every time they trot the line out.

 

[clint van damme]

Speaker at the conference using anti semitic tropes and Douglas Murray describing the nazis as mucking up nationalism.

Wonder why the media aren't jumping all over this? Baffling.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Speaker at the conference using anti semitic tropes and Douglas Murray describing the nazis as mucking up nationalism.

Wonder why the media aren't jumping all over this? Baffling.

It’s baffling

 

[Ian1779]

Maybe start with not promising what you know full well you cant deliver.

The Tories managed to sell sunlit uplands post Brexit and people bought into that pretty readily even though it’s patently bollocks

 

[skybluetony176]

Speaker at the conference using anti semitic tropes and Douglas Murray describing the nazis as mucking up nationalism.

Wonder why the media aren't jumping all over this? Baffling.

Yeah but he said it in a posh accent and the audience laughed at the holocaust so…

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yeah but he said it in a posh accent and the audience laughed at the holocaust so…

What’s this economist on about too. We’ve raped all the money now so we’re happy sitting on it you plebs should just be poorer

 

[CCFCSteve]

Sorry Steve, I don’t buy it. It sounds like something straight out of Braverman playbook, teach people to pick fruit and veg. You’d have to force most British people by gunpoint to pick fruit and veg in this country. It’s nothing to do with training, farms are mechanised a lot in the UK, the fact is some/most produce can only be harvested by hand. The work is backbreaking, traditionally low paid long before freedom of movement and seasonal. British people just don’t want to do it. The care sector can’t be mechanised past what’s already there and 100% requires a labour force. Seems to be Africans and Asians taking up the slack from the loss of freedom of movement whether that’s in care homes or care in the community, probably explains why immigration isn’t falling after brexit, just the demographics that’s changing. Same problem as farming in many ways, backbreaking and traditionally low paid long before freedom of movement. As for hospitality sectors. Not sure how you can make it more efficient other than order from the table which is something certainly the larger chains are already doing. Someone still has to cook it, pour it and deliver it to your table. There isn’t queues of British people wanting to work unsociable long hours as the fruit loop from Wetherspoons has discovered.

So basically we’re as productive as we can be ?! Come on. I’ll ignore the comment about Bravermann (who as I’ve said before I’ve got no time for and shouldn’t be anywhere near government) and teaching people to pick fruit and veg comments. Of course there are opportunities to train/retrain people and ensuring they’re better supported by allowing people to retain more benefits to make work pay etc. I also said we will always need a proportion of net migration, especially seasonal jobs and i specific sectors.

I honestly think if we’ve got to the point where people in this country think they’re too good to be doing certain jobs and choose not to work (which is what you’re saying) we’re fucked. What we need to do is make sure that people are properly rewarded from doing those jobs through higher pay, retaining a bigger proportion of current benefits or raise tax thresholds.

Finally there’s obviously a high proportion of those on long term sick that are unable to work, but 1 in 15 of people of working age is frightening. I read recently that 700k of these would like to return to work with the right support. Let’s forget them though and just import more people cos we’ve got a glut of available housing and plenty of capacity in public services. In my book that’s just crazy logic, yet still there is no sensible debate on the subject because we’re got the extremes just shouting louder and louder at each other

 

[David O'Day]

This conference is basically them saying "we've fucked it and we ain't getting back in so let's just say all things we really want to say"

 

[Deleted member 5849]

So basically we’re as productive as we can be ?! Come on. I’ll ignore the comment about Bravermann (who as I’ve said before I’ve got no time for and shouldn’t be anywhere near government) and teaching people to pick fruit and veg comments. Of course there are opportunities to train/retrain people and ensuring they’re better supported by allowing people to retain more benefits to make work pay etc. I also said we will always need a proportion of net migration, especially seasonal jobs and i specific sectors.

I honestly think if we’ve got to the point where people in this country think they’re too good to be doing certain jobs and choose not to work (which is what you’re saying) we’re fucked. What we need to do is make sure that people are properly rewarded from doing those jobs through higher pay, retaining a bigger proportion of current benefits or raise tax thresholds.

Finally there’s obviously a high proportion of those on long term sick that are unable to work, but 1 in 15 of people of working age is frightening. I read recently that 700k of these would like to return to work with the right support. Let’s forget them though and just import more people cos we’ve got a glut of available housing and plenty of capacity in public services. In my book that’s just crazy logic, yet still there is no sensible debate on the subject because we’re got the extremes just shouting louder and louder at each other

I don't have much to argue with the last two paragraphs, but who's brave enough to pay for the support? You know when it comes to that 700k certain factions will weaponise that too.

And of course that support and raising if be wages should be there regardless of immigration policy too.

 

[Sick Boy]

So basically we’re as productive as we can be ?! Come on. I’ll ignore the comment about Bravermann (who as I’ve said before I’ve got no time for and shouldn’t be anywhere near government) and teaching people to pick fruit and veg comments. Of course there are opportunities to train/retrain people and ensuring they’re better supported by allowing people to retain more benefits to make work pay etc. I also said we will always need a proportion of net migration, especially seasonal jobs and i specific sectors.

I honestly think if we’ve got to the point where people in this country think they’re too good to be doing certain jobs and choose not to work (which is what you’re saying) we’re fucked. What we need to do is make sure that people are properly rewarded from doing those jobs through higher pay, retaining a bigger proportion of current benefits or raise tax thresholds.

Finally there’s obviously a high proportion of those on long term sick that are unable to work, but 1 in 15 of people of working age is frightening. I read recently that 700k of these would like to return to work with the right support. Let’s forget them though and just import more people cos we’ve got a glut of available housing and plenty of capacity in public services. In my book that’s just crazy logic, yet still there is no sensible debate on the subject because we’re got the extremes just shouting louder and louder at each other

The British workforce is made up of the worst idlers in the world.

 

[clint van damme]

I don't have much to argue with the last two paragraphs, but who's brave enough to pay for the support? You know when it comes to that 700k certain factions will weaponise that too.

And of course that support and raising if be wages should be there regardless of immigration policy too.

If the right support had been available from the start many wouldn't have left the workplace to begin with.

 

[clint van damme]

The British workforce is made up of the worst idlers in the world.

And yet even after comments like that they still vote for this mob, its mind boggling.

 

[skybluetony176]

So basically we’re as productive as we can be ?! Come on. I’ll ignore the comment about Bravermann (who as I’ve said before I’ve got no time for and shouldn’t be anywhere near government) and teaching people to pick fruit and veg comments. Of course there are opportunities to train/retrain people and ensuring they’re better supported by allowing people to retain more benefits to make work pay etc. I also said we will always need a proportion of net migration, especially seasonal jobs and i specific sectors.

I honestly think if we’ve got to the point where people in this country think they’re too good to be doing certain jobs and choose not to work (which is what you’re saying) we’re fucked. What we need to do is make sure that people are properly rewarded from doing those jobs through higher pay, retaining a bigger proportion of current benefits or raise tax thresholds.

Finally there’s obviously a high proportion of those on long term sick that are unable to work, but 1 in 15 of people of working age is frightening. I read recently that 700k of these would like to return to work with the right support. Let’s forget them though and just import more people cos we’ve got a glut of available housing and plenty of capacity in public services. In my book that’s just crazy logic, yet still there is no sensible debate on the subject because we’re got the extremes just shouting louder and louder at each other

We’ll never be as productive as we could be simply because it’s a moving target. It’s an unachievable goal. So it’s a misnomer.

You’re adding your own context. I never once inferred that people would rather not work, I was talking in specifics of furlough when I said no one wanted to do it. The fact is people have a choice in this country when it comes to work including unskilled manual labour jobs and the fact is people would rather a permanent job in a warm warehouse packing boxes than they would doing seasonal work in fields in all weathers. You can’t blame people for that.

PS: sorry about the Braverman comment. Having watched footage of Anne Widdicombe on TV rounds yesterday you were clearly parroting Anne Widdicombe

 

[shmmeee]

Even the immigrants use it as a way to make some quick cash or transition into the economy proper. No one’s out there fruit picking as a long term career.

 

[duffer]

Even the immigrants use it as a way to make some quick cash or transition into the economy proper. No one’s out there fruit picking as a long term career.

Do a good job on the spuds, son, and next year I might promote you onto the apples.

I'll just say this - Tories love market forces except when it means they can't pay people peanuts to do their shit jobs for them.

Prison labour, child labour, immigration (short or long term), or better pay. I'll guarantee that the right of the Tory party already has a think tank looking at the first two.

 

[clint van damme]

Do a good job on the spuds, son, and next year I might promote you onto the apples.

I'll just say this - Tories love market forces except when it means they can't pay people peanuts to do their shit jobs for them.

Prison labour, child labour, immigration (short or long term), or better pay. I'll guarantee that the right of the Tory party already has a think tank looking at the first two.

More nazi sympathy in the Spectator. There's a very dangerous element in the tories gaining more and more traction.