Supporters forum minutes and questions - 20th July (10 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

Coventry City Supporters Forum
Agenda for Meeting on the 20th July 2023 @ 5.00pm (On Zoom)

1. Apologies for absence
Pat Raybould, Laura Smith, Michael Garlick, Alan Ludford

2. Approval of the minutes from the previous meeting
All agreed
3. Matters arising from the previous meeting not covered on today’s agenda
EDI – SG will pick this up during her agenda item
Train timetable changes – Was discussed at the SAG but CCFC and Arena are progressing this with the authorities to push for action to be taken

4. EDI (Equality, Diversity & Inclusion).
SG – Football leadership diversity code of practice – emphasis on gathering and publishing fan data as well as how recruitment takes place within the club. Particular emphasis on LGBTQ+ and disabled supporters. SD is looking for any supporters who are interested in having a role. Communications will follow to ask for supporters to get involved. Distribution to be done via Supporters Forum Group.
EDI Code of practice has a zero tolerance policy on match day with clear signposting of sanctions. Working very closely with the police


5. Safeguarding – Kirstie – safeguarding lead for club – Updated all the guidance – 2 safeguarding stewards on match days. Going through the new EFL guidance that she is working through and will report these changes

6. Safe Standing at the CBS Arena – consultation
DB announced a month ago that CCFC were looking at introducing safe standing at the arena. At the start of last season licensed standing was allowed within stadia in Great Britain. Looking at the area 13, 14, 15 and 16 in the upper sections as there have been issues with overcrowding and persistent standing.
At the point now where we are looking to facilitate this. In terms of construction there is a 6 month lead time. Looking at giving themselves a season to get this right. At a recent SAG meeting it was agreed to install this in May 2024.
Andrew Walster (City Council – Street scene and regulatory services) – person who signs safety certificate for the stadium. Working closely with club and arena and been working on the persistent standing issue in these areas. His personal opinion is that it would be expanded to other areas as and when needed.
Practically the seats will be there to be used but a rail will also be there
Martin Girvan (Deputy head of Inspectorate, Sports Ground Safety Authority) – talked about other grounds including locally at Wolves, Birmingham, and Aston Villa. Many fans don’t understand the challenges of why we are doing what we are doing. He explained there are circumstances with a relatively small force, in the upper 15 rows, would not take much force to collapse forward.
Not looking to stop people standing but stop people standing unsafely. As you come lower down the forces needed are higher, so the hazard is not as prevalent.
The risks are made up of the gradient of stand, age demographics and number of people standing in the area. Work with the club where the number of seats where people can stand incrementally means it’s not necessary to stand anywhere outside of this area.
Some people stand because they want to, others stand because they can’t see without standing.
DB said his initial thoughts are in blocks 13, 14, 15 and 16 from Row U upwards – 2200 seats in total. Other clubs are looking at installing safe standing in the away ends and this forms part of the published criteria. This doesn’t have to be straight away.
Steve Moloney – Who pays for the railings? CCFC are paying for the installation. Is an agreement required from Frasers to install safer standing? Yes and they’ve been supportive. It was initially identified by their stadium safety officers.
PG asked about how many seats would be lost moving seating to rail seating. Looks like CCFC might lose 50 or so out of 2200 seats initially being looked at.
MG – Capacity of stadia is based on the number of people that can get out of the stadium safely not necessarily number of seats in the stadium
Once the railed seats go in is that the seats will be sold as standing areas.
CH asked what were the next steps for CCFC on this issue? DB advised that they will be writing to every person who is currently a season ticket holder where the intention is railed seating to ask their thoughts.
[email protected] will be available for thoughts and questions
It was agreed that all Supporters Forum groups wouldshare the CCFC communication on Safe Standing issued with the minutes of the meeting and ask for supporters feedback using the above e-mail address.

7. Club up-date & responses from pre submitted questions from forum members
On separate sheet
8. Family Zone up-date
MH – Last year we had 749 indiviudal children attend the family zone area last season. Planning is ongoingfor2023-24. Several email conversations and meetings with Pat Raybould – significant plans will be shared once they are able to.


9. AOB
Jim Brown – Former players have a successful website with tens of thousands of visitors every month. Looking for a web master who would be interested in being a volunteer web master for the former players website. He will share a job spec for the person they are after.
Jim Brown – He runs the clubs archives – programme collection going back to the 1950’s. He’s looking for away programmes from 2005 years. If anyone has a they’d like to donate then please contact him
CH – Asked about how the club might refurbish and or maintain the bricks at the arena – DB – Confirmed that the club will look into how this can be done.


10. Proposed date of the next meeting:

DB to send out a date in due course.

 

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[Sky Blue Pete]

Coventry City Supporters Forum
20th July 2023 @ 5.00pm

Questions from Forum Members

1. Are there any changes to parking and pick up points for home supporters arriving by coach for the new season? (Bedworth & Nuneaton)
DB – No changes planned
2. Will the Supporters Clubs have access to the sale of home match programmes at their venues as briefly discussed at the previous meeting? (Bedworth & Nuneaton)
MH – Plans for programmes next season are still being finalised. Looking to take back the selling process around the arena and external sites (Dhillons brewery) including supporters’ groups. Question asked about digital programmes – MH doesn’t feel there is a large appetite.
Jim Brown asked if sales had fallen. MH had advised the trend has been they have been falling across football and CCFC are looking to buck that trend. CH asked whether the club are considering digital programmes? MH – Not at present.
3. Given the significant increase in season ticket sales, has there been any thought to operating a fan village for all home games? (Sky Blue Talk)
Mark O’Shea from the Arena advised several options had been given to the club much like the Birmingham and Middlesborough games last season with food, drink and music. There is power and data and are looking at lighting for evening games.
4. Are we likely to continue closing seats in ‘on-sale’ areas when it seems that the risk reduction impact is minimal? Mainly blocks 10-13. (Sky Blue Talk)
DB – 10-12 are in the away end under the current structure of the away end unless we look to change it like the Middlesborough game last season. League rules mean CCFC have to give 3,000 tickets to away clubs. 13 was closed for safety reasons. There is a new Head of Operations for the arena and this has been brought up with her. Asked about rumour that Leicester only giving CCFC 2,000, MH advised this is not true.
5. The service within the corporate lounges has been disappointing. Is anything happening to improve it? (Sky Blue Talk / Corporate members)
TS advised that last season they had a lot of positive feedback, and it was by far the best season in corporates. This is based on number of compliments and the number of complaints received on match day and after games. Mark O’Shea – added that over 500 staff are employed on a match day. Tend to train on the day before the game. Been a journey building up skills, knowledge and lack of people. Frasers have brought cleaning and catering in house to be in control of standards

CH asked about random surveys after the game. TS said seasonal members have a process, those that buy match by match are given opportunities to feedback with follow up calls post match.
6. What plans are in place to improve fan safety after the game? Mixing people and cars on the stadium footprint and outside seems to be a recipe for disaster. (Sky Blue Talk)
DB advised there is a vehicle lockdown on the stadium footprint.
PG mentioned not just on the footprint but more widely outside of the footprint. TS mentioned the underpass to the car park opposite the main road. CH raised the issue on the crossing at the top end by the exhibition hall. CCFC are happy to look at in discussions with the safety meetings to see what can be done.
Dave Eyles asked about keeping fans behind. DB explained that this is not an option. TS gave an update at the end of the meeting from the police liaison officer who advised that this can only happen if they receive specific intelligence as otherwise it is against the individual human rights to hold back supporters in an away end
7. Are there plans to open the club shop straight after games at the CBS? (Sky Blue Talk)
DB advised it will be closed for 10 minutes after the game by the nature of the position where it is. DB says CCFC will make an announcement of retail operations shortly for 2023/24
8. Is there a breakdown of fan ejections and stewarding issues in each block for last season? (Sky Blue Talk)
DB has this information for the ground as a whole – he was not sure if they have a breakdown for each block. He was not able to share this in a public forum
9. Is there a timescale for the release of the new away shirt for 2023-24? Will there be a third shirt in 2023-24? If so, when will this be released? (Coventry City London Supporters Club)
TS – the answer is yes and yes and there will be a third shirt
10. With more season ticket holders in 2023-24, there are concerns over the overcrowding in the East Stand at half time in and around the toilet blocks. The overcrowding is aggravated by the queues for drinks and food etc. This could be alleviated by the introduction of a zig zag queuing system for the drinks and food outlets used extensively at other venues? (Coventry City London Supporters Club)
Mark O’Shea – talked about expanding out at half-time to use the outside and trying different approaches to improve the situation.
Aware that once attendances are over 21-22000 there are issues due to the design of the arena.
CH will give feedback direct to Mark O’Shea as he sits in this area

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

11. It’s great that Doug King is investing in Ryton and on the Area pitch. Do we know if there are plans, in conjunction with Frasers, to improve facilities on the concourse both food/beverages and toilets. Half time is a particular concern based on last season? (Diamond Club)
Mark O’Shea - New sponsorship deal with Budweiser and about £50k has been spent on the concourse with a lot of refurbishment on each of the food and beverage kiosks. Looking to improve sustainability throughout the whole offer
MH advised that he had been working with the Arenaover Summer to design and install new CCFC branding on concourse and outside Arena.
Jim Brown – Asked about vegetarian options? Mark O’Shea – trialled new offers on the concourse – every kiosk will have 4-5 different vegetarian options. Currently working on alcohol offers
CH – Are Frasers / CCFC looking to share some marketing material. Mark O’Shea advised there are plans on the walls and looking at a video with Budweisers to show what’s available.
12. Will the club benefit from sales on match day in & around the ground? If so, what changes are being imposed (if any) in terms of catering products, pricing & availability, especially with the increase in football that record numbers in season ticket purchases will bring? (Bedworth & Nuneaton)
DK – Aligned with Frasers and CCFC does share in the revenue and this was part of the broader deal for the licence agreement. Encouraged fans to get in early to take advantage
13. What plans are in place to cope with the additional fans who will be attending the CBS as season ticket holders this season (18,000+)? Are half time checks returning to your seat going to be in place for 2023-24? (Coventry City London Supporters Club)
14. Bigger crowds mean more issues getting in, toilets, half time refreshments, egress. Have any changes been made? Are there more plans in the pipeline? (Sky Blue Talk)
15. Family Zone – Have the club considered funding it? (Sky Blue Talk)
MH advised it hadn’t been directly, monetarily funded by the Club in the past. The current model has existingfunds from various sources, as well as Club giving time and other resources directly, and providing prizes/donations for fundraising. There are plans being worked on for the forthcoming season including the Club creating a dedicated Family Zone space. Frasers working closely with Game which won’t be ready for the first game of the season but will come on board during the season to be a dedicated video game area.
16. Financial – Was the EFL loan fully repaid as part of the takeover transaction? (Sky Blue Talk)
DB – No it wasn’t. When the loan was taken (21 of 24 took it in the championship). All clubs had the same repayment plan – last payment due Jan 24. EFL funding comes through monthly and Premier league funding comes through bi-annually and this is reduced to pay the amount.
17. What other commercial opportunities are the club exploring alongside sponsorship and corporate sales. (Sky Blue Talk)
TS – Numerous opportunities – advertising and partnerships with various businesses in a creative way to work with the business and what they ask for and what budgets they are working with
Will be engaging with the local and regional business community as things have changed significantly given the increased visibility of the club and working with Doug King directly
18. Does Doug intend to inject any external investment into the playing side of the club, or is this ringfenced to infrastructure? (Sky Blue Talk)
DK – No comment – I mean there’s so much chatter and you see what’s going on with players coming in and going out. Doug said he ‘likes to keep his cards close to his chest’. The strategy is to bring quality to the club, looking to upgrade everything including the playing squad.
19. Do SISU still have any financial involvement or any contractual obligations with Coventry City Football Club? (Sky Blue Talk)
DK – No, the fact is that JS was invited to Wembley as he thought it was a nice thing to do. She came as DK’s guest. Sisu have moved away from the club.
20. How does the new stadium licence agreement compare to what was in place previously? (Sky Blue Talk)
DK – He feels it’s a fair deal for the club and the stadium owner and you can see the collaboration taking place to enhance the experience and the ground and football club and community. DK advises the difference has been CCFC investing in the safe standing and the pitch. Very positive between both parties

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

21. Who is responsible for repairs to the new pitch? (Sky Blue Talk)
Within the agreement there’s a pitch committeeoverseeing the new pitch.
22. It there any external debt currently housed in eitherCoventry City Football Club Ltd or CovCityCo Ltd? (Sky Blue Talk)
DK – There is no external debt other than a small bond debt of about 20k who they are trying to find who gave the money originally.

23. Could you explain the new family zone season ticket seats and how the messages seem to have become mixed around extending its size? (Sky Blue Talk)
DB – Don’t think it was ever mixed. Internally the plan was that we would sell clockwise for family zone and anti-clockwise for the standard seating. The family zone sales were much quicker than they anticipated. It got to the point where the family zone sales were completed.
24. What are the club’s biggest challenges over the coming years? What the current plans to overcome them? (Sky Blue Talk)
DK – It’s a tough league this year and the foreseeable future. Can only do what we can do. We will invest in the infrastructure of the club, Ryton and the pitch and this will continue as facilities need upgrading and as we bring in better quality players this has to be the case or they won’t come. We have a proven management team who are locked into long term deals and he is optimistic that they can work with the improved players. Looking to get into the play offs 3 out of 5 years and to win one of the play offs. Most of the plans put in place in Jan / Feb have been hit massively and he is happy of the progression at the club.
He feels our Corporate outreach has been poor – this is the focus over the next 6-9 months. Focusing on getting the right players for the medium / long term to continue to progress the club.
25. Are Supporters Clubs required to pay sponsorship fees to get players to attend meetings? If they are, what will this year’s costs be and what do we get for our money? (Leamington & Warwick)
CH suggested that L&W lead and DB agreed take off line as figures haven’t yet been agreed.
26. At the last meeting, donating the £5 vouchers to the Family Zone was discussed. The lack of a formal response from the club on this has been disappointing. Are the club now able to clarify if this is still possible even though the deadline for using the vouchers has passed? (Coventry City London Supporters Club)
DB wants to have another look at this and provide a mechanism for making this happen. The deadline of 31/5 was the club’s own one so we can move this.
27. Good progress has been made with the club’s archives with everything removed from the CBS Arena to a safe secure storage place in the city. The next stage is for the club to agree to transfer the archives to a Charitable Trust which will secure the future of our history and heritage. Can the club confirm they are in-agreement with this course of action and agree on some timescales? (Jim Brown – Club Historian)
DB confirmed this has been discussed privately. DB confirmed conversations have been had with DK and discussions to make this possible will be arranged.
28TV’s have been fixed within the concourse and in the corporate areas.
29Jody Jones looking to arrange a disabled supporters meeting at the end of August
30Questions from Michael Garlick – disenfranchised by the marketing of corporate areas. They then missed out on the premier league packages. TS doesn’t think that any corporate members missed out as the time was extended and specific arrangements made directly with corporate members.
Based on season ticket numbers this has been a success.
31Why can’t the corporate season tickets come with car parking or a link to buy this at the same time? TS advised it’s a separate company and so there is a public portal that all corporate members can purchase them through the hospitality team
32 Will there be food available in the clubs corporate lounges? Mark O’Shea confirmed that this was upgraded second half of the season and will continue for this season.
TS – when DK first came to the meeting with heads of departments. We’ll do things behind the scenes and then tell supporters about it. DK has taken the approach that a lot is going on behind the scenes and not been announced in advance but instead as things are happening or have happened. He feels the club has been good at communicating.

 

[South West Sky Blue]

Thanks Pete

 

[djr8369]

Thanks Pete

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Good work Pete.

And I know there's some things to pick holes in but you have to say, things are so much more positive now. DKs answers that there's no external debt other than £20k and SISU are 100% not involved in any way, surely puts to bed any doubts some might have had on those subjects.

I can't help but be somewhat (potentially, naively) impressed with how the club is being run now.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Good work Pete.

And I know there's some things to pick holes in but you have to say, things are so much more positive now. DKs answers that there's no external debt other than £20k and SISU are 100% not involved in any way, surely puts to bed any doubts some might have had on those subjects.

I can't help but be somewhat (potentially, naively) impressed with how the club is being run now.

There’s still some incorrect answers and some refusal to answer others

 

[Macca1987]

There’s still some incorrect answers and some refusal to answer others

Pete you're doing a sterling job, I appreciate the club won't answer everything you lay before them, but keep chipping away, I for one appreciate all the hard work you put in PUSB

 

[Skyblueweeman]

There’s still some incorrect answers and some refusal to answer others

Like I said, some holes to pick but overall, a step in the right direction.

 

[djr8369]

There’s still some incorrect answers and some refusal to answer others

What do you feel are the biggest issues in this regard?

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Thanks for the work you put into this Pete

 

[Grendel]

Good work Pete.

And I know there's some things to pick holes in but you have to say, things are so much more positive now. DKs answers that there's no external debt other than £20k and SISU are 100% not involved in any way, surely puts to bed any doubts some might have had on those subjects.

I can't help but be somewhat (potentially, naively) impressed with how the club is being run now.

Well there is some external debt which was admitted earlier in the minutes

 

[Saddlebrains]

Good work Pete

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What do you feel are the biggest issues in this regard?

They answer what they want and not what they don’t

was surprised by the loan and sisu and debt answers very clear and very transparent
Especially the loan one
Biggest issue is away end and capacity

 

[djr8369]

They answer what they want and not what they don’t

was surprised by the loan and sisu and debt answers very clear and very transparent
Especially the loan one
Biggest issue is away end and capacity

Re the away end is the issue that they don’t want to answer or answer wrong or just that it’s a bit more complex than we might realise so sometimes things seem contradictory or evasive?

Don’t want to sound dismissive but professionally I see similar all the time where things seem a bit opaque and it’s often just confusion and/or misinterpretation. Also, disclaimer, I have not been through the history of all this so apologies if it’s really transparent that they’re being evasive.

 

[shmmeee]

Good stuff Pete.

Some of these questions look a little silly with some of the events that have taken place since.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Re the away end is the issue that they don’t want to answer or answer wrong or just that it’s a bit more complex than we might realise so sometimes things seem contradictory or evasive?

Don’t want to sound dismissive but professionally I see similar all the time where things seem a bit opaque and it’s often just confusion and/or misinterpretation. Also, disclaimer, I have not been through the history of all this so apologies if it’s really transparent that they’re being evasive.

All of the above

 

[djr8369]

Good stuff Pete.

Some of these questions look a little silly with some of the events that have taken place since.

Could be worse we could have threatened to punch people in the throat.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Interesting stuff.

Why have the clubs archives been moved?

 

[SHUNT31]

They answer what they want and not what they don’t

was surprised by the loan and sisu and debt answers very clear and very transparent
Especially the loan one
Biggest issue is away end and capacity

So do you think they are having discussions about moving away end?

Sorry to keep going on about it

 

[CCFCSteve]

Cheers Pete

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

So do you think they are having discussions about moving away end?

Sorry to keep going on about it

None whatsoever

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Interesting stuff.

Why have the clubs archives been moved?

Worry about not being at cbs forever is what I assumed

 

[MalcSB]

DB is factually incorrect in his answer to Q4 (away ticketing). The league regulation is as follows:-

“35.3 Facilities for visiting supporters

35.3.1 Each Club must make provision for at least 2,000 visiting supporters at every home match or such number as represents 10% of the Club’s certified capacity, if less than 2,000. The League may, on the prior written application of a Club, suspend this Regulation or reduce the figure either for a particular League Match or for a period of time. Each Club shall, subject to any dispensations granted by the Board, make provision for at least 200 of the visiting supporters (of which not less than 100 must be seats) to be accommodated under cover. Any Club which fails to meet the requirement of 200 visiting supporters being accommodated under cover and which does not have a dispensation granted by the Board shall have such amounts as the Board shall determine (in its absolute discretion) withheld from that Club’s central distributions from the Pool Account until such time as the Club can meet the requirement.”

This remains unchanged from previous seasons and has been quoted on here before. Was he challenged at the time, and - if not - it is surely worth challenging now as a response to the issued minutes.

 

[SkyblueDad]

On the away end issue to me 3000 or bit more for away allocation is about right, if home seats start selling out on a regular basis I’m sure the empty blocks in between the home and away will be looked at.
Did they indicate anything like that, just the mentioned figure of 3000 makes me think it might have.

 

[MalcSB]

On the away end issue to me 3000 or bit more for away allocation is about right, if home seats start selling out on a regular basis I’m sure the empty blocks in between the home and away will be looked at.
Did they indicate anything like that, just the mentioned figure of 3000 makes me think it might have.

They have quoted that regulations require 3,000 which is just completely wrong - only 2,000 is required. If 3,000 is the clubs commercial decision, they should own it not try to pass the buck.

 

[ccfcchris]

Thanks Pete. Great work.

 

[SBT]

So the EFL loan hasn’t been paid off, but we also have no external debt?

Cheers for the minutes btw Pete

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

On the away end issue to me 3000 or bit more for away allocation is about right, if home seats start selling out on a regular basis I’m sure the empty blocks in between the home and away will be looked at.
Did they indicate anything like that, just the mentioned figure of 3000 makes me think it might have.

Dave misread the regulations as requiring 10% of capacity

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

DB is factually incorrect in his answer to Q4 (away ticketing). The league regulation is as follows:-

“35.3 Facilities for visiting supporters

35.3.1 Each Club must make provision for at least 2,000 visiting supporters at every home match or such number as represents 10% of the Club’s certified capacity, if less than 2,000. The League may, on the prior written application of a Club, suspend this Regulation or reduce the figure either for a particular League Match or for a period of time. Each Club shall, subject to any dispensations granted by the Board, make provision for at least 200 of the visiting supporters (of which not less than 100 must be seats) to be accommodated under cover. Any Club which fails to meet the requirement of 200 visiting supporters being accommodated under cover and which does not have a dispensation granted by the Board shall have such amounts as the Board shall determine (in its absolute discretion) withheld from that Club’s central distributions from the Pool Account until such time as the Club can meet the requirement.”

This remains unchanged from previous seasons and has been quoted on here before. Was he challenged at the time, and - if not - it is surely worth challenging now as a response to the issued minutes.

Have asked the chair to go back and ask for clarity or amendment

 

[shmmeee]

So the EFL loan hasn’t been paid off, but we also have no external debt?

Cheers for the minutes btw Pete

Sounds like it can’t be paid off early and is just deducted from TV payments.

 

[SBT]

Sounds like it can’t be paid off early and is just deducted from TV payments.

I’m just curious if there are any other liabilities that Doug isn’t including when he talks about the club being debt free.

 

[MalcSB]

Thanks Pete. The fact that they have erroneously allowed for 50% more away supporters than is required may well explain their assertion that the stadium configuration does not allow for home supporters in blocks we all believe were intended for such use. I am astonished that the Chief Executive (and others) don’t know and understand the regulations of the competitions we participate in.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Thanks Pete. The fact that they have erroneously allowed for 50% more away supporters than is required may well explain their assertion that the stadium configuration does not allow for home supporters in blocks we all believe were intended for such use. I am astonished that the Chief Executive (and others) don’t know and understand the regulations of the competitions we participate in.

Other priorities if I’m being overly fair
Come on if I’m not