“Lazy” (9 Viewers)

Deity

Well-Known Member
A simple forum search for the word “Lazy” between now and mid August, shows that this word has been used to describe the following past and present players. I started to try and keep a tally of the number of times it was used but honestly gave up as it got so numerous for the top two players. Interesting, dont you think?

Player nameNumber of posts
Hadji Wright>20
Ellis simms>10
Jay Dasilva5+
Kasey Palmer5+
Yasin Ayari3
Tyler Walker2
Hamer1
Josh eccles1
Stern John1


I’ve know I’ll get railed for this but if anyone is actually interested in thinking critically and open to confronting their own biases, recent studies have indeed highlighted a clear pattern of racial bias in football commentary, which supports the concern that black players are often unfairly criticized or stereotyped in the media.

Studies have clearly demonstrated that black players are often unfairly reduced to and described by their physical attributes, with less focus and emphasis on their cognitive skills and character. Specifically, a study analyzing praise comments for visibly black players found that a significant majority (69.8%) centered on physical attributes, with much lesser emphasis on character (5%) and cognitive skills (4%). [The Conversation]

This bias also extends to how intelligence and attitude are portrayed, with black players more likely to receive criticism for their attitude and less praise for intelligence. Specifically, when discussing intelligence during games, 62% of the praise was aimed at players with lighter skin tones, while 63% of the criticism targeted players with darker skin tones. [The Swaddle]

Another study found that white players are often hailed for their courage and commitment, whereas black players are more likely to be criticized for their attitude and are often reduced to their pace and strength, rather than their overall skill or intelligence. Examples include Pogba being lauded as Lazy, or Yaya Toure, one of the finest technical players in English football, repeatedly referred to as a “powerhouse”. [New Statesman]

Roger Federer (20 grand slams at the time) was a “genius”, Serena Williams (23 grand slams) simple a “phenomenal athlete”.

In addition, a pretty comprehensive review of over 2,000 statements from 80 matches in Europe's top leagues revealed that players with darker skin are frequently reduced to their physical traits in commentary [The Score].

These types of stereotypes can skew our perception and lead to unfair characterizations, like calling a player ‘lazy’ without any objective basis. We need to be mindful of these biases and focus on fair and balanced assessments of all players.


Links:
The Conversation: Racism in football: new research shows media treats black men differently to white men
The Swaddle: Study Says Football Commentators Praise Black Players For Power, White Players for Work Ethic, Leadership
New Statesman: A new study finds evidence of racial bias in football commentary. We cannot ignore it any longer
The score: Study finds racial bias in English-speaking soccer commentary
A really good post and well argued.

This type of bias does exist and indeed I used to get frustrated when we appeared on TV and commentators would refer to Biamou’s pace likely to cause the oppositions defence a problem. Max was not blessed with pace.

The situation is improving but whilst every club has ignorant fans the rate of change will not be as quick as it should or could be.

If we turn specifically to Wright I think the biggest difference to his game has nothing to do with work rate but confidence …. Once he gets that the goals will flow !
 

Macca

Well-Known Member
Some of our biggest hero’s for many of us included Danny Thomas, Lloyd McGrath, Dion Dublin, Peter Ndlovu, Cyrille Regis etc etc…..:Why do strange characters go out of their way to look for divisive material.

I never called these guys lazy. Having done extensive studies and research I concluded it’s because they weren’t lazy
 

Blind-Faith

Well-Known Member
Bloody hell, so it’s subconscious racism now? Where does it end? They will be wearing T-shirts and kneeling for that soon. You literally can’t criticise anyone now can you?

Worlds gone to far the other way. No one should be criticised for the colour of their skin and anyone who does so should be dealt with.

But if I think someone is a lazy sod who just ambles around the pitch, doesn’t put the same level of effort in as his team mates and is generally shit at his job, I’m going to say so. Because I’m judging him on that, nothing to do with the fact he is black.
 

Macca

Well-Known Member
Just continue identifying what you see on the pitch from any player but rebrand it “lacking in vigour” where you see it. Then everyone’s happy.
In Palmers case, a professional young footballer who can only play 70 mins, we can go with “lacking durability”
 

Orlando

Well-Known Member
Bloody hell, so it’s subconscious racism now? Where does it end? They will be wearing T-shirts and kneeling for that soon. You literally can’t criticise anyone now can you?

Worlds gone to far the other way. No one should be criticised for the colour of their skin and anyone who does so should be dealt with.

But if I think someone is a lazy sod who just ambles around the pitch, doesn’t put the same level of effort in as his team mates and is generally shit at his job, I’m going to say so. Because I’m judging him on that, nothing to do with the fact he is black.
Yes,but your missing the point.Wright is being called lazy by some people when he obviously isn’t.Why is that?
 

Blind-Faith

Well-Known Member
Yes,but your missing the point.Wright is being called lazy by some people when he obviously isn’t.Why is that?
I’m hoping one of the sad statto’s on here who love to bang on about XG, can help us out with distance covered during a game?
 

Saddlebrains

Well-Known Member
Fair thread i suppose

For me though i feel i call players lazy because that's how i see their application

Dont think thats anything to do with Skin colour however


Dele Adebola - ran his bollocks off
Dion Dublin - one of our greatest ever, ran his bollocks off
Peter Ndlovu - as above, never stopped

Opposed too

Peter Vincenti- Lazy c**t i can barely remember ever moving
Kevin Kyle - lazy c**t who probably did 1 sprint when here
Martyn Waghorn - lazy c**t who stood waving hands about instead of running

Maybe there are those who subconsciously have a bias. For me though i just call it as i see it, and if a player isnt showing the desire or application I expect of someone who is playing for our club il call them on it whther they are white, black, gay, straight, or a tory ( alright probably not a tory)
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Bloody hell, so it’s subconscious racism now? Where does it end? They will be wearing T-shirts and kneeling for that soon. You literally can’t criticise anyone now can you?

Worlds gone to far the other way. No one should be criticised for the colour of their skin and anyone who does so should be dealt with.

But if I think someone is a lazy sod who just ambles around the pitch, doesn’t put the same level of effort in as his team mates and is generally shit at his job, I’m going to say so. Because I’m judging him on that, nothing to do with the fact he is black.
As usual it's gone over your head

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Macca

Well-Known Member
Fair thread i suppose

For me though i feel i call players lazy because that's how i see their application

Dont think thats anything to do with Skin colour however


Dele Adebola - ran his bollocks off
Dion Dublin - one of our greatest ever, ran his bollocks off
Peter Ndlovu - as above, never stopped

Opposed too

Peter Vincenti- Lazy c**t i can barely remember ever moving
Kevin Kyle - lazy c**t who probably did 1 sprint when here
Martyn Waghorn - lazy c**t who stood waving hands about instead of running

Maybe there are those who subconsciously have a bias. For me though i just call it as i see it, and if a player isnt showing the desire or application I expect of someone who is playing for our club il call them on it whther they are white, black, gay, straight, or a tory ( alright probably not a tory)

None of us should stop calling things as we see them (within the boundaries of decency) The world will become a boring place if people are intimidated into mono opinions
 

Macca

Well-Known Member
Yes,but your missing the point.Wright is being called lazy by some people when he obviously isn’t.Why is that?

People are mistaking Wrights physical stature for laziness. He has a big stride and can therefore cover ground quickly without breaking sweat. Me doing the same would look like I was working harder. Nothing to do with effort just being a short arse
 

pusbccfc

Well-Known Member
Yeah, it's a good point. There's definitely something underlying with some people.

I guess it's comparable to the word 'beast' being used to describe certain players although we've used that to describe Gyokeres.

I agree with @Saddlebrains that Waghorn and Vincenti were lazy but the word is used less frequently than it is for Wright and Simms.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Disheartening if not at all surprising to see the level of dismissiveness and outright hostility towards a topic that is not only valid but crucial in understanding the dynamics of a pattern within football thats been substantiated by research and personal experiences shared by many

To those resorting to insults - your reactions are actually part of the problem. Brushing it off with offensive remarks or telling me to 'get a life' doesn't diminish the reality of racial bias in sports commentary— just highlights your unwillingness to confront uncomfortable truths. This isn't about stirring the pot, it's about addressing a systemic issue that's all too real for the players who experience it

The defensiveness and aggression actually reveals more than perhaps intended. It's easier to attack the messenger than to face the message, especially when it challenges ingrained perceptions. It's easy to sit behind a screen and throw insults, but it takes a bit of bravery and integrity to engage in meaningful self-reflection.

I stand by my original post. If it makes you uncomfortable, ask yourself why. We can't claim to love football while ignoring or trivializing issues that taint its integrity

One of the problems is your comparison of Federer and Williams - which is absurd.

Federer was considered an artisan of the game. A throwback to the days of Rod Laver. Djokovic is known for astonishing athletic ability and phenomenal defence rather than genius - Nadal the matador.

Back in the day Chris Evert was known for elegance. Navratilova her brute strength

Conversely Viv Richards was known as a genius and old style flair


His Somerset team mate Botham was a swashbuckling hero

Tiger woods a genius

Williams is regarded as the best women player ever by the way by most experts

 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Yes,but your missing the point.Wright is being called lazy by some people when he obviously isn’t.Why is that?

Mainly by one person who seems to be drunk most of the time and his sidekick who generally is a bit strange and has a pathological hatred of Luton
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
Using Lazy is just a lazy way of describing a player.
I have been watching Haji closely over the last few games he tries really hard think he gives up easily sometimes but not because he is lazy, he just doesnt always have the confidence that he can make it.

You have a pass hit at 100mph and when the player doesnt get it you hear people shouting lazy should have got that.
Really need to give their heads a wobble.
 

skyblu3sk

Well-Known Member
Called this out a while back and got a similar response to this thread what is a bit more positive is the number of people willing to have a good think about any possible bias has increased. Every time I see the lazy comment thrown around to a player who clearly isn't all I can think is...
video high quality GIF
 

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
Looking at yesterday’s game:

MVE chased a ball to the by-line where there was a slim chance of getting it.

Haji didn’t chase many balls that weren’t to his feet.

“We’ll fight to the game is won” is part of our club anthem. I for one want to see players run and chase and press the opposition.

See MVE above.

See also Godden when he pressed their keeper to a hurried clearance that gave us the possession back.

As for Biamou, he used to take the time to interact with fans. That’s the opposite of lazy.

I want to see Wright chase down and harry and press more. I want to see him throw himself in front of goal kicks occasionally in the slim hope of a rebound. And yes, run himself into the ground knowing we have 5 subs. I’d rather 100% effort for 60 mins than 60% for 100.

“Fight till the game is won”.
 

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
One of the problems is your comparison of Federer and Williams - which is absurd.

Federer was considered an artisan of the game. A throwback to the days of Rod Laver. Djokovic is known for astonishing athletic ability and phenomenal defence rather than genius - Nadal the matador.

Back in the day Chris Evert was known for elegance. Navratilova her brute strength

Conversely Viv Richards was known as a genius and old style flair


His Somerset team mate Botham was a swashbuckling hero

Tiger woods a genius

Williams is regarded as the best women player ever by the way by most experts

If you read my post it’s not my comparison
 

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
One of the problems is your comparison of Federer and Williams - which is absurd.

Federer was considered an artisan of the game. A throwback to the days of Rod Laver. Djokovic is known for astonishing athletic ability and phenomenal defence rather than genius - Nadal the matador.

Back in the day Chris Evert was known for elegance. Navratilova her brute strength

Conversely Viv Richards was known as a genius and old style flair


His Somerset team mate Botham was a swashbuckling hero

Tiger woods a genius

Williams is regarded as the best women player ever by the way by most experts

However, the point here isn’t zooming in on individual achievements or skills. Federers reputation as a skilled strategist and master of the game is well deserved. The intention behind the piece is not the compare their playing styles or dispute their differences but to highlight how media and public narratives often differ in their portrayal and inflicted by race and gender.

While federer is celebrated for his finesse quite often as you say, Williams, despite having impressive strategic ability in her own right, has often has her physical strength and athleticism dominate her descriptions of her play.

That isn’t to say her physicality hasn’t been a part of her success, but the broader point here is about how the balance of attributes highlighted by the media and public vary significantly and it’s important that we are aware of that and can understand how these biases can shape our perception of athletes
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
If you read my post it’s not my comparison

And if you read my post you will see why such comparisons are made - genius was used for Malcolm Marshall all the time
 

Blind-Faith

Well-Known Member
MVE chased a ball to the by-line where there was a slim chance of getting it.

Haji didn’t chase many balls that weren’t to his feet.

“We’ll fight to the game is won” is part of our club anthem. I for one want to see players run and chase and press the opposition.

See MVE above.

See also Godden when he pressed their keeper to a hurried clearance that gave us the possession back.

As for Biamou, he used to take the time to interact with fans. That’s the opposite of lazy.

I want to see Wright chase down and harry and press more. I want to see him throw himself in front of goal kicks occasionally in the slim hope of a rebound. And yes, run himself into the ground knowing we have 5 subs. I’d rather 100% effort for 60 mins than 60% for 100.

“Fight till the game is won”.
Steady on now, have you ever considered you may be subconsciously racist??
 

napolimp

Well-Known Member
A really good post and well argued.

This type of bias does exist and indeed I used to get frustrated when we appeared on TV and commentators would refer to Biamou’s pace likely to cause the oppositions defence a problem. Max was not blessed with pace.

The situation is improving but whilst every club has ignorant fans the rate of change will not be as quick as it should or could be.

If we turn specifically to Wright I think the biggest difference to his game has nothing to do with work rate but confidence …. Once he gets that the goals will flow !

I'm pretty sure Clarke-Salter got labelled as having an "attitude problem" (during second spell), although may be bad example due to the tweets situation. And I've seen a few on here alluding to MVE having an "attitude problem" as well. In fact, I think at least one poster threw Wright into that category. Really struggling to think of any white players, especially recently, who have had "attitude problems".
 

BlueSkiesForever

Well-Known Member
Ridiculous post, I’ve been a big supporter of Wright all season and have been trying to sing his praises when others have been moaning about him but I can fully understand why people have called him “lazy”. It’s nothing to do with the colour of skin, it’s to do with the fact that he often doesn’t press as quickly as others or get into position quickly enough or attempt to get the ball off the opposition as much others, it’s as simple as that.

When you’ve got Godden next to him running around like a headless chicken it makes Wright look comparatively lazy, and as much I’ve been trying to provide an argument about other positive aspects of his game on here over the last few months, I get that he does come across as lazy.

To reduce his play style down to the colour of his skin is downright ridiculous and makes me think you’ve not watched many of our games properly, if at all.
 
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure Clarke-Salter got labelled as having an "attitude problem" (during second spell), although may be bad example due to the tweets situation. And I've seen a few on here alluding to MVE having an "attitude problem" as well. In fact, I think at least one poster threw Wright into that category. Really struggling to think of any white players, especially recently, who have had "attitude problems".

Misfud had a huge ego and attitude problem. Gyokeres by his own admission was aloof and arrogant. Kane had an attitude problem and was accused of sleeping with another players wife!
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Bright had an attitude problem and was as lazy as fuck
 

napolimp

Well-Known Member
Misfud had a huge ego and attitude problem. Gyokeres by his own admission was aloof and arrogant. Kane had an attitude problem and was accused of sleeping with another players wife!

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I genuinely don't recall anyone ever saying Gyokeres had an attitude problem.
 

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