England squad (9 Viewers)
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HadjiChippo
Well-Known Member
I’m shocked he didn’t pick Kalvin Phillips tbf 
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Joe Gomez. Aways been shit every time I have seen him.
I remember when Klopp was moaning about him not being picked for England, whilst not even picking him for Liverpool
I remember when Klopp was moaning about him not being picked for England, whilst not even picking him for Liverpool
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
Good to see Brathwaite get a call up..... he wont get any minutes of course, but he looks to be one of England's better long term defensive prospects.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but it looks like he has improved significantly.
Remember when John Stones was shit?
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
I don't think he has improved significantly.
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
You must not have watched him this year then
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
I have, I just have a different opinion than you.
Wyken Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Henderson!!! Fucking hell he must have some horrible blackmail against Southgate
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Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk
Which other holding midfielders would you pick? I assume the squad - if not the first XI - will need more than one.
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
So you leave out one of the most experienced and respected members of the squad for a player with about a dozen career games at senior level who’s never even been in an England squad before?
It’s not going to happen. It’s been the fashionable thing to bash Henderson for a while now, and if he’d stayed in Saudi then I probably wouldn’t have picked him. But he clearly has something to offer the squad in a position where we’re incredibly thin - as evidenced by the best alternative option (which changes every other month, I should add) currently being a total novice.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
No, you leave out someone who is clearly not good enough to be in the team anymore. If a player isn't good enough why should he be picked for the team? Do you know more than Ian Wright? Alan Shearer? Linaker?
You pick the best players available not someone because you like him as person?
You pick a squad that includes leaders and lieutenants who the manager trusts to impose a bit of order and stability on a notoriously high-pressure environment. You can just pick a squad that’s an ever-spinning carousel of flavour-of-the-month players, with no concern for how they’ll actually handle the pressure cooker of a major tournament - lord knows plenty of England managers have tried that before - but Southgate clearly has other considerations in mind.
Henderson has no obvious successor, is still playing regularly at a good level, and has the respect of his teammates. I would love to be able to play someone else there alongside Rice, but he honestly makes the most sense to me right now.
Also, Wright and Shearer? Really?
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
Would you say the same about Portugal? The Dutch league is ranked higher.
Both strike me as a perfectly acceptable standard for a player with ambitions to be at the Euros.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Are we saying that a midfield who plays in Portugal should be picked instead of him? I must of missed that.
What we are saying is you can't keep picking someone who has played a "handful" of games badly for an awful Ajax team.
He simply isn't good enough anymore and shouldn't be in the squad anymore but Southgate says he picks on form and then plays favourites.
Phillips strangely probably deserves to play more as they are both in equally bad form yet Phillips does it in a stronger league.
Oh well if you want to be utterly clueless then so be it.
No, I’m saying the Dutch league is a decent standard of football for picking international players. I don’t hear much criticism of the (supposedly inferior) Portuguese league when we’re all fawning over Vik, so not sure why playing in the Eredevisie precludes anyone from selection for us.
And no, that is not to say Henderson is performing anywhere as well as Gyokeres (!), but his reviews seem to have been fine so I think he has something to offer. Certainly in the absence of anyone else making a strong case to replace him for more than a dozen or so games.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
so be it
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
I respect your points about Henderson generally, but the Dutch league is absolutely shit. There are some big clubs that sound decent but the standard, particularly in the last couple of seasons has been really poor. The Villa score against Ajax was exactly what I expected in all honesty.
ccfctommy
Well-Known Member
I agree with @SBT - Mainoo is the new flavour of the month it seems. England fans seem to have a thing about rushing new players into the side as soon as possible. he will be getting an Under 21 call up apparently which is perfectly fine. Lets see Mainoo in the World Cup/Nations League cycle.
Re Henderson - I did thing we cannot surely pick him whilst he was in Saudi but Southgate has a core leadership group of Maguire, Henderson, Kane, Walker etc. These are the senior pros that he want's as the core of his England set up. The ones that will welcome the Kobee Mainoo when they receive their first call up.
I really don't know how Henderson is getting on at Ajax, but Southgate trusts him and there isn't really a lot of international class players in that position to come in for him. This will be his last tournament anyway.
Apart from that, I think the squad is spot on. He's dropped Phillips due to form, which is understandable. The only issue is Ben White who has turned down a call up. Something has gone on behind the scenes there.
Re Henderson - I did thing we cannot surely pick him whilst he was in Saudi but Southgate has a core leadership group of Maguire, Henderson, Kane, Walker etc. These are the senior pros that he want's as the core of his England set up. The ones that will welcome the Kobee Mainoo when they receive their first call up.
I really don't know how Henderson is getting on at Ajax, but Southgate trusts him and there isn't really a lot of international class players in that position to come in for him. This will be his last tournament anyway.
Apart from that, I think the squad is spot on. He's dropped Phillips due to form, which is understandable. The only issue is Ben White who has turned down a call up. Something has gone on behind the scenes there.
Are there many players from the Eredivisie going to the Euros? It’s obviously not a league I watch very often…
Wyken Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Ward-Prowse, a holding midfielder?
Wyken Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I think West Ham spending a small fortune to replace him at that position with Phillips (who has been awful and likely played himself out of contention) tells you that he’s not a credible solution there.
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
I don’t like the fact Henderson is in the squad but I sort of get it. There’s a dearth of English talent at centre mid. Do I think Mainoo is the answer long-term? Yes. But I’ve always thought the younger players should do their stint with the U21s before moving to the senior squad, and it’s a pathway Southgate is clearly very keen on.
I’d be disappointed if Henderson gets any game time come the tournament but having him round the camp makes sense.
I’d be disappointed if Henderson gets any game time come the tournament but having him round the camp makes sense.
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
For reference, a list of English centre midfielders (not in the squad) that started the last round of PL fixtures:
Kobbie Mainoo
James Garner
Lewis Cook
Tom Davies
Ollie Arblaster
Adam Wharton
Ross Barkley
Harrison Reed
Ryan Yates
Kalvin Phillips
Sean Longstaff
It’s hardly a list you look at thinking “Southgate’s made a huge mistake”.
Kobbie Mainoo
James Garner
Lewis Cook
Tom Davies
Ollie Arblaster
Adam Wharton
Ross Barkley
Harrison Reed
Ryan Yates
Kalvin Phillips
Sean Longstaff
It’s hardly a list you look at thinking “Southgate’s made a huge mistake”.
If we’re honest, the best person to play alongside Rice and Bellingham in midfield would pretty obviously be John Stones. But we’re even lighter at CB than we are in midfield so it can’t happen.
Personally I think we go with a midfield three of Rice, TAA and Bellingham - certainly against the weaker opponents to start. If the CBs aren’t up to scratch then I think Henderson comes in to offer them more protection.
Personally I think we go with a midfield three of Rice, TAA and Bellingham - certainly against the weaker opponents to start. If the CBs aren’t up to scratch then I think Henderson comes in to offer them more protection.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Ajax had a really strong season a few years ago (knocking out big teams in the Champions League before selling Matthijs de Ligt and Frankie de Jong) but for a while the whole trajectory of the Eredivisie has generally been going down. Like the Championship, any stand out players are sold as soon as they start standing out.
They'll be a few players going to the euros for sure, but I guess the point is that our pool of players mostly play in the Premier League, one that I admit I don't like very much, but is of a much higher quality. The Dutch national team is also not as strong as it has been, but that's a totally different conversation!
Saddlebrains
Well-Known Member
This is why we wont win the Euros btw
Everyones getting hard over our midfield and attacking options, and understandably so.
But that defence and goalkeeper choice is laughable. The likes of Germany, France, Spain shit all over our defensive third
Everyones getting hard over our midfield and attacking options, and understandably so.
But that defence and goalkeeper choice is laughable. The likes of Germany, France, Spain shit all over our defensive third