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Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
MalcSB said:
Because they have no experience of life and the area of the brain responsible for judgement literally has not formed fully yet. If a 16 year old can’t be trusted to sell me a lottery ticket when I am clearly old enough, they can’t be trusted with a vote.
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....but it's fine for them to join the army?
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
MalcSB said:
Because they have no experience of life and the area of the brain responsible for judgement literally has not formed fully yet. If a 16 year old can’t be trusted to sell me a lottery ticket when I am clearly old enough, they can’t be trusted with a vote.
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That’s more to do with gambling laws than anything else. How do you judge who can be trusted with a vote? I’d argue and with good reason that any members of the Tory Party that voted Truss in as leader of the Tory party and PM by default can’t be trusted with a vote.
 
MalcSB

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Being older than 16 doesn’t automatically make you more sensible, as evidence of this I present Liz Truss. 16 is the age you become an adult in law so it’s only right that they get the vote. You’re being deliberately flippant saying why not let 13 year olds and it adds nothing to the discussion. For the record I wouldn’t consider banning over 75 year olds from voting, I’m just making the point that there’s more of an argument to allow 16 year olds vote than there is over 75’s.

I think the crux of the problem is that the older generations don’t like that it’s 16+ year olds that are shaping the country so they want to delay that process. Despite the fact that when they were in their teens right up until they retired they were the ones shaping the country. The national service argument is the ideal example of this. I’m 51 and I’m hearing some people of a similar age and older going yeah that’s a good idea, that will sort out the youth. Oblivious to the fact that old people were saying the exact same thing about them when they were a teenager. Yes your children and grandchildren don’t hold all your values, suck it up snowflakes, your grandparents and parents probably had the same issue with you when you were younger.
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You become an adult at 18 in the UK
 
MalcSB

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Being older than 16 doesn’t automatically make you more sensible, as evidence of this I present Liz Truss. 16 is the age you become an adult in law so it’s only right that they get the vote. You’re being deliberately flippant saying why not let 13 year olds and it adds nothing to the discussion. For the record I wouldn’t consider banning over 75 year olds from voting, I’m just making the point that there’s more of an argument to allow 16 year olds vote than there is over 75’s.

I think the crux of the problem is that the older generations don’t like that it’s 16+ year olds that are shaping the country so they want to delay that process. Despite the fact that when they were in their teens right up until they retired they were the ones shaping the country. The national service argument is the ideal example of this. I’m 51 and I’m hearing some people of a similar age and older going yeah that’s a good idea, that will sort out the youth. Oblivious to the fact that old people were saying the exact same thing about them when they were a teenager. Yes your children and grandchildren don’t hold all your values, suck it up snowflakes, your grandparents and parents probably had the same issue with you when you were younger.
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16 year olds aren’t shaping the country.
 
A

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Ironically he was hate preaching about school teachers not five minutes before the attack. 1 in 5 school teachers are assaulted a year on average. Maybe if he displayed some respect for for others who are far more vulnerable to personal attacks than he is people might have a bit more sympathy for him.
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The attacks on teachers are all part of the same lack of respect that has crept into our society. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Northants Sky Blue said:
Anyone who thinks these milkshake stunts are genuine needs their bumps felt.

As Tice conveniently tweets:

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Hundreds of thousands is stretching it. A few thousand more knuckle draggers and pensioners more like.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
He clearly means personal tax, ie they’re living and working in said country legally. Not VAT on anything you might purchase on holiday. Why do people keep jumping to extremes that no one meant in the first place as the line of defence. It’s moronic.
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Why is income tax a special tax? And in theory no you don’t pay VAT as a holiday maker but in practice no one is reclaiming the Twix they bought from a corner shop are they? Tax is a charge on transactions. It’s a silly, moronic you might even say, distinction.

Should my cleaner not get a vote because she earns below the personal IT threshold? Should a single mum who receives more back in tax credits not get a vote? Should JK Rowling get an extra vote cos she pays more tax? Maybe I should get two as a higher rate payer?

It’s the sort of comment that sounds clever at first but falls apart at the slightest scrutiny. Voting is a right of being a citizen, it’s not something you buy by paying tax.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Why is income tax a special tax? And in theory no you don’t pay VAT as a holiday maker but in practice no one is reclaiming the Twix they bought from a corner shop are they? Tax is a charge on transactions. It’s a silly, moronic you might even say, distinction.

Should my cleaner not get a vote because she earns below the personal IT threshold? Should a single mum who receives more back in tax credits not get a vote? Should JK Rowling get an extra vote cos she pays more tax? Maybe I should get two as a higher rate payer?

It’s the sort of comment that sounds clever at first but falls apart at the slightest scrutiny. Voting is a right of being a citizen, it’s not something you buy by paying tax.
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I’m just going to assume that you’re being deliberately stupid and not bothering replying.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Ashdown said:
The attacks on teachers are all part of the same lack of respect that has crept into our society. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
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I’m not suggesting they do. The point I’m making is that he is at the coal face of promoting hate. Teachers today, Muslims last week. Tice was promoting hate against civil servants last week with conspiracy theories. Tory ministers promoting hate against lawyers alongside Reform, enemies of the people were the words used if I remember correctly. Rtc. etc. It’s almost as if his chickens have come home to roost.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Really torn on the milkshake thing. On the one hand lol milkshaked the fash. On the other good on John Prescott for twatting that guy who egged him. On a third hand I love living in a country where politicians aren’t cosseted from the public. On a fourth, I just heard a story of a lesbian who had to move house because trans activists were coming to her home and threatening her because they saw her as a nazi bigot.

I think on balance, probably don’t assault the fash, it just gives them sympathy points.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
They’re still legally bound to a contract they signed as a minor though - isn’t it 6 years?
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I thought it was 4 but that’s not the point. The parent ultimately is the one who’s making the decision to allow it. Without the parent the kid (which is what they are) can’t join. Even if the parent allows, they join the college until they’re 17.5 when they start their training.
 
MalcSB

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
Y all
shmmeee said:
Remove the vote from over 67s. They don’t pay National Insurance, can’t have kids, can’t join the army, and they’re easily swayed by benefit and house price increases and have no stake in the real economy.

This is fun.
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Go ahead, just exempt me from paying any taxes.
 
MalcSB

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
So you’re saying this is purely about mental maturity?
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I think I am, yes, given the area of the brain responsible for judgement isn't fully developed at 16.
If it isn’t about maturity then 13 year olds should be able given the vote. In truth, we all know what this proposal is about and if 16 year olds were more likely to vote Tory it wouldn’t be being suggested by Labour.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 5849 said:
The age of consent is 16.
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For some people. But you can’t sleep with someone in a position of trust (teacher MP policeman etc) until 18. Because we recognise 16 year olds aren’t mature enough to make all their own decisions.

And AoC is 13 in many ways. Two 15 year olds can have sex, a 12 and a 14 year old can’t as under 13 you can’t give consent in any situation.

 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
MalcSB said:
I think I am, yes, given the area of the brain responsible for judgement isn't fully developed at 16.
If it isn’t about maturity then 13 year olds should be able given the vote. In truth, we all know what this proposal is about and if 16 year olds were more likely to vote Tory it wouldn’t be being suggested by Labour.
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Votes at 25?
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
oakey said:
www.theguardian.com

Met chief says millions of men are danger to women and girls in England and Wales

National strategy beyond policing and criminal justice system needed to tackle problem, Sir Mark Rowley says
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

An inconvenient truth?
A toxic culture war fringe issue which only hateful bigots bang on about?
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I’d go one further. Violence against men and boys is also almost exclusively carried out by men. As is most crime, especially violent crime.

What do you do with that info though? I saw somewhere most burglary is done by a tiny proportion of the population. Logic suggests going hard on early signs of violent behaviour towards anyone, but that would really put the car among the pigeons. There’s a belief that “giving someone a slap” or whatever is just part of life, but most people don’t ever do it and it provides cover for some truly nasty types.

I’d be all for much tougher sentences for any violent crime on first offence.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
MalcSB said:
I would be happy to stick with the majority of countries at 18. So yes, people should be able to vote if they are 25. Or75.
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Sorry should have explained. There’s neuroscience research that shows the brain doesn’t mature until 25, so there’s an argument to make that the age of majority but in reality I don’t think anyone would accept it.

There’s no real logical age that makes sense where you’re a child one day and an adult the next, I think 18 or even 21 is fair though.
 
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