Do you want to discuss boring politics? (219 Viewers)

[Grendel]

I think you’ve got an outdated view TBH.

Electric cars depreciate less than petrol for a start: Electric car depreciation: do they hold their value?

There’s a small insurance premium but that’s outweighed by fuel and maintenance costs. Why is electric car insurance so expensive? EV vs ICE cost analysis | Auto Express

Everyone I know who drives electric loves it TBH.

Oh and the RRP is far more expensive than a petrol version. The reality on the ground regarded trade in values dispels your theoretical argument as well

 

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[SkyBlueMatt]

 

[fernandopartridge]

I don't think EV is the long term answer really, reduced car use is.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Been out canvassing etc for 10 days (in Dudley)

People not very enthused. In order of frequency, issues raised are ...
Need a change
NHS
Cost of living
Energy bills
Immigration
Crime
Potholes

Of those who expressed a view ...
One Conservative, 3 or 4 Reform, 1 libdem, 20 odd Labour but ...
Roughly 30 per cent undecided.
The tory here had 52per cent of vote and big majority in 2019

Too close to call it yet

What constituency Oakey? you might have knocked on my door.

 

[oakey]

What constituency Oakey? you might have knocked on my door.

Halesowen

 

[shmmeee]

I don't think EV is the long term answer really, reduced car use is.

Bit of everything. Good long range EVs charged at home in rural/suburban areas, bikes, scooters, etc including fully electric everywhere, and walking plus mass transit in cities.

We’re right at the start of the curve for a lot of the tech needed for EVs and the basic pattern of solar plus battery plus smart grid is sound with a lot of head room for innovation.

 

[Nuskyblue]

I think you’ve got an outdated view TBH.

Electric cars depreciate less than petrol for a start: Electric car depreciation: do they hold their value?

There’s a small insurance premium but that’s outweighed by fuel and maintenance costs. Why is electric car insurance so expensive? EV vs ICE cost analysis | Auto Express

Everyone I know who drives electric loves it TBH.

I think electric cars now depreciate at a higher rate than equivalent ICE cars (oversaturated market maybe?).

Maintenance is generally lower, electric cars are more reliable, less moving parts = less to go wrong although generally new cars are mega reliable. My car (electric) only needs a service every 2 years!

Fuel savings are a thing but only if you can charge at home, if not you're looking at 15-20p a mile in the summer and something like 20-30p a mile in the winter.

Electric cars are fine for most (standard commute etc) but for regular high milage use the they are not the one...

 

[shmmeee]

I think electric cars now depreciate at a higher rate than equivalent ICE cars (oversaturated market maybe?).

Maintenance is generally lower, electric cars are more reliable, less moving parts = less to go wrong although generally new cars are mega reliable. My car (electric) only needs a service every 2 years!

Fuel savings are a thing but only if you can charge at home, if not you're looking at 15-20p a mile in the summer and something like 20-30p a mile in the winter.

Electric cars are fine for most (standard commute etc) but for regular high milage use the they are not the one...

Sure. But regular high mileage is a tiny fraction of car use and it would be silly to base policy around it. Solid state is like fusion, always a few years off, but promises ten minute charge times and much increased range.

You can’t look at an early adopter market and project out. A 2030 ban would likely leave ICE cars on the road until 2045-2050 based on current turnover. The tech for batteries and charging in 25 years time will be wildly different.

 

[MalcSB]

Bit of everything. Good long range EVs charged at home in rural/suburban areas, bikes, scooters, etc including fully electric everywhere, and walking plus mass transit in cities.

We’re right at the start of the curve for a lot of the tech needed for EVs and the basic pattern of solar plus battery plus smart grid is sound with a lot of head room for innovation.

Good long range EVs cost a lot of money, beyond the reach of the average working man. Charging at home is not an option for many people - terraces, flats, older properties. Not everyone lives in a city, although that will obviously change with your building plans.

My car is the most convenient, comfortable and quickest mode of transport to get me to the CBS Arena. It’s cheaper than the train of there are two of us travelling.

 

[Nuskyblue]

Sure. But regular high mileage is a tiny fraction of car use and it would be silly to base policy around it. Solid state is like fusion, always a few years off, but promises ten minute charge times and much increased range.

You can’t look at an early adopter market and project out. A 2030 ban would likely leave ICE cars on the road until 2045-2050 based on current turnover. The tech for batteries and charging in 25 years time will be wildly different.

Oh yea, my experience is based on my usage (25k miles in 9 months). For the everyday family they're OK providing you can charge at home. If you can't then it becomes more troublesome...

They really need to work on making cars less massive. Cutting the weight would go a ways to make them more efficient. The solution at the moment is shoehorning in a bigger battery pack.

 

[MalcSB]

I think electric cars now depreciate at a higher rate than equivalent ICE cars (oversaturated market maybe?).

Maintenance is generally lower, electric cars are more reliable, less moving parts = less to go wrong although generally new cars are mega reliable. My car (electric) only needs a service every 2 years!

Fuel savings are a thing but only if you can charge at home, if not you're looking at 15-20p a mile in the summer and something like 20-30p a mile in the winter.

Electric cars are fine for most (standard commute etc) but for regular high milage use the they are not the one...

They do depreciate quicker.
In terms of maintenance, have you had to change the battery yet?
They really aren’t the answer without mahoosive investment in charging infrastructure and reduced public charging costs, and can you see that happening?

 

[MalcSB]

Sure. But regular high mileage is a tiny fraction of car use and it would be silly to base policy around it. Solid state is like fusion, always a few years off, but promises ten minute charge times and much increased range.

You can’t look at an early adopter market and project out. A 2030 ban would likely leave ICE cars on the road until 2045-2050 based on current turnover. The tech for batteries and charging in 25 years time will be wildly different.

Isn't the wildly different tech in 25 years a good argument for someone to stay with ICE?

 

[MalcSB]

Oh yea, my experience is based on my usage (25k miles in 9 months). For the everyday family they're OK providing you can charge at home. If you can't then it becomes more troublesome...

They really need to work on making cars less massive. Cutting the weight would go a ways to make them more efficient. The solution at the moment is shoehorning in a bigger battery pack.

The problem is that modern safety requirements have driven the increase in size, added to which bigger batteries are needed to give satisfactory range.

 

[Nuskyblue]

They do depreciate quicker.
In terms of maintenance, have you had to change the battery yet?
They really aren’t the answer without mahoosive investment in charging infrastructure and reduced public charging costs, and can you see that happening?

Ahaha no, and I hope I don't anytime soon! The thing is less than a year old.

There has been no battery deg at all. I was told by a guy that had the same model to expect significant reduction in capacity... I think he didn't realise that the "range" displayed was calculated on recent driving style and the prevailing conditions. If it is cold your range will drop. Significantly.

Summer I'll get 300+ miles off a charge. Winter 200 miles or thereabouts and that with me driving like a vicar.

 

[clint van damme]

I don't think EV is the long term answer really, reduced car use is.

I think one will lead to the other.
Pity we currently don't have decent transport systems in place ASAP alternative.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Bring on hydrogen. Electric is fools gold

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

A pretty idiotic Labour candidate has been withdrawn for betting on himself to lose. Not Starmer, oddly enough

 

[wingy]

Hydrogen isn’t going to happen. It’s not anything like as easy to transport safely as electricity and is mostly cope by manufacturers that didn’t want electric initially like Toyota, but even Toyota have pivoted to solid state batteries these days.

Stack it against environmental damage it wins for me.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Stack it against environmental damage it wins for me.

If we can create nuclear waste and consider that a safe green form of power, then hydrogen power is nothing!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

A pretty idiotic Labour candidate has been withdrawn for betting on himself to lose.

Does that mean they now win their bet?

 

[clint van damme]

Great stuff

 

[shmmeee]

If we can create nuclear waste and consider that a safe green form of power, then hydrogen power is nothing!

The amount of waste from nuclear is tiny and it’s very safe. All the waste produced in the US isn’t even the size of a football field and they don’t recycle their waste at all.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What is it with friends making shit up

85% of immigrants don’t work and live off benefits

mmmmmmm really!!!!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What is it with friends making shit up

85% of immigrants don’t work and live off benefits

mmmmmmm really!!!!

And labour will invite millions more immigrants in

mmmmm

have asked how the person thinks the nhs and care industry would cope or would have coped but no answer
Also how if you leave a group of nations who discuss how to manage these things it’s pretty difficult to influence them
Oh and hey I wonder if removing funding from adult social care has led to an increase in homelessness and whethe this has more to do with lack of housing that immigration

Also how Richard tice and Nigel Farage imagine they will enact their policies or are they just grandstanding divisive rhetoric to appeal to disgruntled communities suggesting there are easy answers when there aren’t

no reply

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Hey I’m probably wrong to quote the evidence from the refugee council and the um convention on refugees Farage and tice will just wave a magic wand

 

[MalcSB]

Hydrogen isn’t going to happen. It’s not anything like as easy to transport safely as electricity and is mostly cope by manufacturers that didn’t want electric initially like Toyota, but even Toyota have pivoted to solid state batteries these days.

We should be converting our gas boilers to hydrogen. Hydrogen would then be piped as natural gas is today. Then we wouldn’t be forced into those damn fool air source heat pumps which cost a fortune to not heat your house.

 

[MalcSB]

I don't think EV is the long term answer really, reduced car use is.

Reduced population.

 

[MalcSB]

And labour will invite millions more immigrants in

mmmmm

have asked how the person thinks the nhs and care industry would cope or would have coped but no answer
Also how if you leave a group of nations who discuss how to manage these things it’s pretty difficult to influence them
Oh and hey I wonder if removing funding from adult social care has led to an increase in homelessness and whethe this has more to do with lack of housing that immigration

Also how Richard tice and Nigel Farage imagine they will enact their policies or are they just grandstanding divisive rhetoric to appeal to disgruntled communities suggesting there are easy answers when there aren’t

no reply

Could you explain to me how removing adult social care funding (which is really bad) and a subsequent increase in the homeless leads to a lack of housing?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It doesn’t
Homelessness increases where adults that need support fall through the cracks society has neglected through lack of investment

 

[fernandopartridge]

I guess this statistic is made even worse by the fact that some of the stock was sold off subsequently

 

[chiefdave]

What is it with friends making shit up

85% of immigrants don’t work and live off benefits

mmmmmmm really!!!!

there was an article I saw, ironically online, that spoke that monitored a group of people in various demographics and how they got news in general and news about the election. Pretty much only pensioners are still looking to what would probably be called the Main Street media. Place likes BBC, ITV, print press etc.

The rest were getting it from social media, some spending hours a day scrolling. It confirmed what we probably already knew, that it's just an echo chamber and easily manipulated. Twitter being a prime example where the algorithm is 'tweaked' so you see paid accounts rather than content that you may want to see.

Scarily the majority of that content being consumed was things that had been proven false.

 

[chiefdave]

I guess this statistic is made even worse by the fact that some of the stock was sold off subsequently

there was a documentary about the housing department in Waltham Abbey years ago. It's always stuck with me as I was living there at the time but also because they quoted a stat that floored me. That was that in the borough 8 out of 10 buy to lets were now in the hands of private landlords, being rented out at amounts the council were not allowed to pay as there is, or at least was, a cap in place. And also that only 1 in 10 of those houses sold off have been replaced.

 

[MalcSB]

It doesn’t
Homelessness increases where adults that need support fall through the cracks society has neglected through lack of investment

Totally agree with that. I’m not sure the sentence I was referring to makes sense though,

Social care services are awful and politicians of all ilks have promised to improve it. Didn’t Boris increase NI to contribute to it - which of course Hunt has reversed and then some. Providing a decent social care system would address a lot 9f issues in the NHS by improving flow through hospitals and releasing beds. Would be a huge impact on A&E waits etc.

 

[MalcSB]

I guess this statistic is made even worse by the fact that some of the stock was sold off subsequently

Right to buy wasn’t great was it? Unless you are like Angela Rayner and exercised that right.

 

[oakey]

Totally agree with that. I’m not sure the sentence I was referring to makes sense though,

Social care services are awful and politicians of all ilks have promised to improve it. Didn’t Boris increase NI to contribute to it - which of course Hunt has reversed and then some. Providing a decent social care system would address a lot 9f issues in the NHS by improving flow through hospitals and releasing beds. Would be a huge impact on A&E waits etc.

I heard Wes Streeting speaking to an activist last week. He assured her he knows fixing social care is the key to improving the nhs. Promised her they have plans which they know will work as they've been tried and tested in other places. He is quite impressive in person.