Do you want to discuss boring politics? (92 Viewers)

[robbiekeane]

It’s down to Ukraine and Hong Kong though.

And you never hear them mentioned. Coeverly and Dorries were at least honest enough to admit last night the targets they set were a nonsense that could never be met.

until someone can verbalise exactly who it is we want to stop coming in we will get nowhere.

The economics can be argued in a variety of different ways, I certainly agree that net zero migration is silly. The concept that all our services won't be worse off if we imported 20 million people tomorrow is also silly however.

You've also got the cultural aspects. We've got a proud tradition and heritage. I don't see why we would want to erase that. We're already seeing massive demographic changes in many places in the UK and I think it bothers a lot of people. Whether they'll admit it is another matter, for obvious reasons, but it's a worthy debating point.

I would also flip it the other way as I think there's many people that want open borders, but try and mud the waters with the economical arguments whilst simultaneously throwing the racist card out at anyone who challenges it.

Ideally we have a sensible approach to it and have a healthy level of immigration. People will quickly shut up about it and then we can concentrate on other much more important things.

While the Hong Kong situation and UKraine did contribute significantly in 2023, it’s actually still a smaller piece of the overall gross immigration numbers. The gross immigration number was about 1.1 million.

Of that, there were about 500k international students (due to the 2020 Graduate route) and about 500k on work visas predominantly driven by the need for health care workers.

This is the reason I was trying to dig a little into what people are most concerned with.

Are people fed up of students? If you wiped off the international student visas, your net immigration would be around zero. But would that make people happy? I’d hope not because one of the key arguments in favour of immigration is increasing the quality of human capital through skilled immigration (@Earlsdon_Skyblue1 i know you mentioned people get fuzzy on the actual arguments for it, that would be one of mine).

So then I look to the work visas, and most of this as mentioned is driven through the need for health workers and social care workers. So…this is actually a problem we have created ourselves by chronically underfunding the health care system. But still, it’s filling a gap in the labour market that we have. So is this something people still want to address, and if so is it just then the cultural considerations that ESB mentioned?

 

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I’m sorry, but do you seriously think I considered voting for the conservatives, I wanted to vote for the working person party, but couldn’t find one, so it’s not a rant. We don’t have a party in the UK who is dedicated to the working person. That’s my argument.
The country is full to the brim of lazy idle, excuse making machines, who have no intention to get off their fat arse and work for a living. We all must agree with that at least.
I come across it every time I go out to a large social gathering, what do you do for a living, ‘ ohh I’m scared of budgies, or I identify as an African mongoose, so can’t work. I’ve never known it this bad in my life

But when you grew up you could work for a half decent wage in a job that provied security and gave you enough money to look to the future - own property etc.

Now jobs are short-term, insecure, low-skilled drudgery with poor wages that offer you no sense of improvement for the future, and that's even the case for some that have saddled themselves with enormous debt trying to gain a higher education. It's soul destroying and understandably people feel like there will never be a time they will be able to enjoy life taking that route. It's not an appealing option anymore.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Give me a reason why it's a good thing . You can't .

It provides more into the economy than it takes out.
It provides a workforce for our health and social care sector which would be on its knees otherwise.

That's two,

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So my tax will rise, that’s great, so when do you think my tax bill will fall after all the excuses have run out. Any sort of prediction, 2027/8, or later.
It’s obscene what I pay now, so I’ve got 4 years of even more increased taxes to look forward too. Absolutely pointless working and it’s took a huge effort to get to the position I’m in atm. OK David I’ll keep you to your word

It’s obscene what I’m paying for my mortgage and utilities, and who do they benefit? A bank manager and a CEO? At least taxes will in theory end up helping someone at the other end.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I can't understand why immigration used to be tens of thousands a year and is now hundreds of thousands. Do you ?

Because we're now seeing a huge increase in older people who need looking after. Very few homegrown people want to do this sort of work, and certainly for the wages on offer, having been constantly told that they should be looking to work in things like finance and make loads of money as that's all that matters.

So that means we either let the old people suffer and not look after them, or we bring in a large number of foreign workers to provide the huge workforce required.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So my tax will rise, that’s great, so when do you think my tax bill will fall after all the excuses have run out. Any sort of prediction, 2027/8, or later.
It’s obscene what I pay now, so I’ve got 4 years of even more increased taxes to look forward too. Absolutely pointless working and it’s took a huge effort to get to the position I’m in atm. OK David I’ll keep you to your word

Well ,considering the Spectator (a very Tory sympathising publication)said that using the criteria/assumptions Sunak was to say Labour would put up taxes, the Tories would have gone up even more. So you should be happy that your taxes aren't going up more under a Tory govt.

And if you want evidence the Tories might put up your taxes, look at the current tax burden on people. Highest it's ever been. I think you're basing your thoughts on old stereotypes and assumptions rather than actual information.

 

[shmmeee]

I can't understand why immigration used to be tens of thousands a year and is now hundreds of thousands. Do you ?

Partly no one wanted to come here cos the economy was shit and Brits were leaving to find work and partly because birth rates have dropped and boomers have entered retirement so instead of having the largest segment of our population working, now they’re in need of care.

 

[shmmeee]

How do you feel about the current numbers , shmmeee ? I didn't vote reform but I can understand why other people voted for them.

I’ve got no issues with numbers in theory, but what I don’t like is ghettoisation that comes from large numbers from one community coming in in a short period of time. I think if you move here you should be British and I think like when you go to uni and they say don’t go home for a term so you move on, the same should apply moving to a new country.

I think it’s all exacerbated by nothing working so it’s easy to think if there were fewer people in A&E or whatever things would be better or houses would be cheaper and in some ways they would. But you’d pay by destroying the economy and that would make other things much worse.

I’d support a Denmark style policy to assuage people’s fears about integration, tough deportation rules for criminals and those denied asylum, and generally a focus on making the basics like housing and the economy work to a level that most people aren’t bothered what’s everyone else is doing.

One thing I will say that isn’t numbers related: I don’t like seeing religion appearing so much more in public life. As a committed atheist I actually respect the CofE style British take on religion which is to not take it too seriously. I’d like to see it out of schools and politics entirely TBH. Some of the pro Gaza campaign videos with not a single women in them worried me as a progressive far more than anything Farage put out. And I’m generally pro Gaza.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Immigration does boost economy as we have a shortage of available working age people. Surely if the hard right wing get into power in France there will be greater immigration coming to the UK?

The thing with Reform was none of their immigration policy made any sense as a joined up coherent strategy.

Even if we ignore the fact they were going to exclude the biggest reason for immigration (health and social care workers) and basically 'stop the boats;, which accounts for something like 0.2% of immigrants.

Economically their plan was basically what you'd expect from a bunch of self-important businessmen - huge cost cutting measures because they believe everyone but themselves is lazy and inefficient. A big part of that is always job losses, meaning loads more people out of work and needing welfare, which they want to slash as well. If it's not job cuts it's wage cuts, which again pushes more people into poverty and needing welfare. (I will point out that one place they didn't want to do this was directors and bankers bonuses, where they want caps removed.

Plus if you're cutting wages in things like the health and social care then even less people from the UK want to do them and you therefore need even more immigration to cover the shortfall. Or just leave the elderly to suffer.

It's so massively nonsensical it's laughable. It's possibly even worse than using austerity to get out of a economic downturn. It only makes things massively worse because you're not actually thinking about all of the things that are affected.

 

[TomRad85]

I’ve got no issues with numbers in theory, but what I don’t like is ghettoisation that comes from large numbers from one community coming in in a short period of time. I think if you move here you should be British and I think like when you go to uni and they say don’t go home for a term so you move on, the same should apply moving to a new country.

I think it’s all exacerbated by nothing working so it’s easy to think if there were fewer people in A&E or whatever things would be better or houses would be cheaper and in some ways they would. But you’d pay by destroying the economy and that would make other things much worse.

I’d support a Denmark style policy to assuage people’s fears about integration, tough deportation rules for criminals and those denied asylum, and generally a focus on making the basics like housing and the economy work to a level that most people aren’t bothered what’s everyone else is doing.

One thing I will say that isn’t numbers related: I don’t like seeing religion appearing so much more in public life. As a committed atheist I actually respect the CofE style British take on religion which is to not take it too seriously. I’d like to see it out of schools and politics entirely TBH. Some of the pro Gaza campaign videos with not a single women in them worried me as a progressive far more than anything Farage put out. And I’m generally pro Gaza.

Pretty well put tbf. I completely agree.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[Ian1779]

It's wonderful isn't it. Mind you it's pretty much the same in here!

A large majority is actually the worst result possible
If you add the results of two parties together then Labour actually lost the election
Winning lots of large swing seats is the sign of a poor campaign
Winning 400+ seats and a big majority is actually a sign that Corbyn is more popular


Not sure which one is my favourite

Now your boy is in power, you’ve gone full Fathers4Justice tribute act

 

[MalcSB]

I've worked in banking and finance for most of my adult life, and would like to consider myself "young", but I think your perception is maybe a tad limited. Whilst it's true that work is considered maybe "less important" by certain cohorts in the UK, but there is a balance to be struck between those who consider work to be "important" but "life is for living".

At the minute, we're stuck in a situation where many are questioning, and quite rightly, what the true benefits are to working. We need to incentivise working, and at the minute, with cost of living etc... we as a country are failing. I highly doubt, speaking to actual people on the ground for the last two decades, they wouldn't want to work harder if it actually paid dividends.

Your argument is probably more lazy than those you claim to cite.

So people would work harder if there was a benefit to them, For example didn’t have to pay as much tax.

 

[MalcSB]

She also went on to say they were looking for private investment to fill the gap instead of raising taxes.

You probably shouldn't believe half quotes on a forum.

So if that isn’t forthcoming, Labour’s plans will be shelved? It will be interesting to see what incentives are available to encourage the required private investment.

I guess what gets me is how they make out it’s a surprise when they will have had discussions with civil servants weeks ago and will have known exactly what the challenges would be. Why not share them before the election? Same for all parties .

 

[MalcSB]

I've worked in banking and finance for most of my adult life, and would like to consider myself "young", but I think your perception is maybe a tad limited. Whilst it's true that work is considered maybe "less important" by certain cohorts in the UK, but there is a balance to be struck between those who consider work to be "important" but "life is for living".

At the minute, we're stuck in a situation where many are questioning, and quite rightly, what the true benefits are to working. We need to incentivise working, and at the minute, with cost of living etc... we as a country are failing. I highly doubt, speaking to actual people on the ground for the last two decades, they wouldn't want to work harder if it actually paid dividends.

Your argument is probably more lazy than those you claim to cite.

• Over eight in 10 hybrid employees have admitted watching TV on company time
• Gen Z employees and men were among the worst at staying on the job at hand
• Those who do watch TV at work clock up a whopping two hours of screen time

Over eight in 10 UK employees who work from home have admitted to watching TV on company time, according to a survey.

Amongst more than 2,000 hybrid workers took part in the study, which looked into Brits' working from home confessions, Gen Z workers - age 18 to 24 - were the most likely to switch on the television while working.
Furthermore, if found that those who do take the opportunity to watch television at work clock up a whopping two hours of screen time on average.
The vast majority - 82 per cent - of respondents admitted to dual screening, or giving up on work altogether, to watch television as they work from home.
And for Gen Z only, less than one in 10 hybrid employees get through a whole shift without getting distracted, as 91 per cent said they tune into something at some point.

 

[robbiekeane]

• Over eight in 10 hybrid employees have admitted watching TV on company time
• Gen Z employees and men were among the worst at staying on the job at hand
• Those who do watch TV at work clock up a whopping two hours of screen time

Over eight in 10 UK employees who work from home have admitted to watching TV on company time, according to a survey.

Amongst more than 2,000 hybrid workers took part in the study, which looked into Brits' working from home confessions, Gen Z workers - age 18 to 24 - were the most likely to switch on the television while working.
Furthermore, if found that those who do take the opportunity to watch television at work clock up a whopping two hours of screen time on average.
The vast majority - 82 per cent - of respondents admitted to dual screening, or giving up on work altogether, to watch television as they work from home.
And for Gen Z only, less than one in 10 hybrid employees get through a whole shift without getting distracted, as 91 per cent said they tune into something at some point.

Yeh - I work remote and I have watched TV before. I’ve also worked fully in the office and scrolled TikTok while having a poo?

I have also worked late into the night and got up in the early hours of the morning for global calls.

The concept of going somewhere and then doing nothing but 8 hours of work and then clocking out and being done for the day is obsolete in many sectors and it’s five and take.

Not really sure these stats tell us anything meaningful

 

[Liquid Gold]

I always have the tv on in the background when WFH. A sitcom I've seen before or something. It's just background noise and it allows me to concentrate more than silence.

Also far less distracting than joining in random conversations in the office.

 

[skybluetony176]

Talks with junior doctors regarding pay to start next week. Always had to be the first thing Streeting did. Let’s see what happens.

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

It’s obscene what I’m paying for my mortgage and utilities, and who do they benefit? A bank manager and a CEO? At least taxes will in theory end up helping someone at the other end.

So you want free mortgages & utilities because you work. Is your post a total typo, or are you as thick as most people think you are after a post like that

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

We’ve are all paying extreme mortgages and utilities, it’s not just you my friend. Onto reality

 

[shmmeee]

• Over eight in 10 hybrid employees have admitted watching TV on company time
• Gen Z employees and men were among the worst at staying on the job at hand
• Those who do watch TV at work clock up a whopping two hours of screen time

Over eight in 10 UK employees who work from home have admitted to watching TV on company time, according to a survey.

Amongst more than 2,000 hybrid workers took part in the study, which looked into Brits' working from home confessions, Gen Z workers - age 18 to 24 - were the most likely to switch on the television while working.
Furthermore, if found that those who do take the opportunity to watch television at work clock up a whopping two hours of screen time on average.
The vast majority - 82 per cent - of respondents admitted to dual screening, or giving up on work altogether, to watch television as they work from home.
And for Gen Z only, less than one in 10 hybrid employees get through a whole shift without getting distracted, as 91 per cent said they tune into something at some point.

What has this got to do with politics? Do you want people forced in the office by law? Always been weird to me how much politicians chime in on stuff that’s nothing to do with them.

 

[shmmeee]

We’ve are all paying extreme mortgages and utilities, it’s not just you my friend. Onto reality

I think the point is to who’s benefit you are paying them.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

What has this got to do with politics? Do you want people forced in the office by law? Always been weird to me how much politicians chime in on stuff that’s nothing to do with them.

Always struck me that really, the only judgement should be if you're doing your job to the standard required. If you are, how you go about that is to an extent irrelevant (unless you feel shagging donkeys or something increases your productivity).

 

[hill83]

I spent more time on here when I worked in the office to be honest

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So you want free mortgages & utilities because you work. Is your post a total typo, or are you as thick as most people think you are after a post like that

I have nothing against you Rev. My mortgage payments are going up thanks to the madness of the last few governments and the extra payments won’t benefit anyone except bank executives.

Taxes do at least fund things that help people.

 

[Ian1779]

• Over eight in 10 hybrid employees have admitted watching TV on company time
• Gen Z employees and men were among the worst at staying on the job at hand
• Those who do watch TV at work clock up a whopping two hours of screen time

Over eight in 10 UK employees who work from home have admitted to watching TV on company time, according to a survey.

Amongst more than 2,000 hybrid workers took part in the study, which looked into Brits' working from home confessions, Gen Z workers - age 18 to 24 - were the most likely to switch on the television while working.
Furthermore, if found that those who do take the opportunity to watch television at work clock up a whopping two hours of screen time on average.
The vast majority - 82 per cent - of respondents admitted to dual screening, or giving up on work altogether, to watch television as they work from home.
And for Gen Z only, less than one in 10 hybrid employees get through a whole shift without getting distracted, as 91 per cent said they tune into something at some point.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

What has this got to do with politics? Do you want people forced in the office by law? Always been weird to me how much politicians chime in on stuff that’s nothing to do with them.

Especially as politicians seem to spend loads of time in their subsidised bars.

On a similar note I once had a boss who went golfing pretty much every day. But hey, that's fine. He's 'networking'.

 

[Otis]

Am I the only one only just finding out Sunaks gone?!

Well he's not very tall. Easy to miss him

 

[SBAndy]

Always struck me that really, the only judgement should be if you're doing your job to the standard required. If you are, how you go about that is to an extent irrelevant (unless you feel shagging donkeys or something increases your productivity).

It’s a performance management issue. If someone is underperforming then crack down on it/them, but if they’re still fulfilling their duties I don’t really see the issue.

 

[MalcSB]

I have nothing against you Rev. My mortgage payments are going up thanks to the madness of the last few governments and the extra payments won’t benefit anyone except bank executives.

Taxes do at least fund things that help people.

The interest rates benefits the savers who are providing the funds for you to borrow to buy your home.

 

[MalcSB]

What has this got to do with politics? Do you want people forced in the office by law? Always been weird to me how much politicians chime in on stuff that’s nothing to do with them.

It was a post responding to posts about people not wanting to work. I have learnt something from this though, that general opinion is that the productivity of an 8 hour shift is improved by spending 2 hours of it watching TV.

 

[shmmeee]

It was a post responding to posts about people not wanting to work. I have learnt something from this though, that general opinion is that the productivity of an 8 hour shift is improved by spending 2 hours of it watching TV.

The govt gets an opinion on how hard you’re working when the government pays your paycheque and not before.

 

[shmmeee]

You are of course correct, and the strategy team at Labour HQ have done an excellent job on this aspect. It’s a shame we didn’t have that in place in 2017 and we might have been rid of the Tories sooner.
It will however stoke the proportional representation debate when you have numbers of votes returning seats in the way they have.

And Corbyn still got more votes… both times

Getting lots of votes means nothing if they’re in safe seats. Corbyn ran the sort of campaign Reform or the Greens would run and got the same results. If he wanted to win he’d have had to try and appeal to people outside young urban voters and he flat out refuses to do that on principle.

 

[shmmeee]

Some really interesting cabinet appointments



This will probably trigger a couple on here:

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The interest rates benefits the savers who are providing the funds for you to borrow to buy your home.

I put £3000 away in savings over the past year and received a grand total of £100 in interest, hardly worth bothering. Who benefits from paying absurd utilities prices?

 

[shmmeee]