Chaps hearing the ricoh deal is done.. (14 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Yes they sold the ground and didn't we sell our ground and effectively sell our share of the ricoh

All other stadiums owned by local authorities don't have mortgages on them that need to be paid

lets screw the higgs trust into oblivion and they only saved the building of the ricoh otherwise we would have been homeless years ago

Stoke had a mortgage. The club were allowed to buy at a preferential rate. They paid £6 million. If our owners buy the mortgage they still do not have technical rights to own the ground. Is that fair.

Doncaster and hull i think do have mortgages. I will check.

 

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[crowsnest]

Yes they sold the ground and didn't we sell our ground and effectively sell our share of the ricoh

All other stadiums owned by local authorities don't have mortgages on them that need to be paid

lets screw the higgs trust into oblivion and they only saved the building of the ricoh otherwise we would have been homeless years ago

The mortgage is getting lower because of the amount of money Acl makes

The Higgs trust did not save the building of the Ricoh , they bought the clubs share of Acl from the club when the building
was already being built .

 

[Grendel]

The mortgage is getting lower because of the amount of money Acl makes

The Higgs trust did not save the building of the Ricoh , they bought the clubs share of Acl from the club when the building
was already being built .

They paid £6 million and can refuse to sell to the tenants. It's a joke of an arrangement.

 

[cloughie]

The mortgage is getting lower because of the amount of money Acl makes

The Higgs trust did not save the building of the Ricoh , they bought the clubs share of Acl from the club when the building
was already being built .

And if they had not bought the clubs share we would not have had a club and then possibly the stadium build could have become stalled half built

How good would have that been

 

[Astute]

They paid £6 million and can refuse to sell to the tenants. It's a joke of an arrangement.

The Council has the right to veto any sale. If I was the council and not a Cov fan I would veto the sale as I don't trust them.

 

[Grendel]

And if they had not bought the clubs share we would not have had a club and then possibly the stadium build could have become stalled half built

How good would have that been

So what? Ever heard the expression charity begins at home? We have had a very unfair deal for a decade. It's time for a fair deal.

 

[cloughie]

They paid £6 million and can refuse to sell to the tenants. It's a joke of an arrangement.

Sorry but whatever you pay for anything even in a distressed state is the price that is going.

what right does any previous owner have to buy anything back

If the owner of my house demands that i sell them back he house that i own at a knock down price then it's a no from me and it would be a no from you also

 

[Grendel]

Sorry but whatever you pay for anything even in a distressed state is the price that is going.

what right does any previous owner have to buy anything back

If the owner of my house demands that i sell them back he house that i own at a knock down price then it's a no from me and it would be a no from you also

So it's a hard nosed commercial decision? Fair enough but then let's not feel to sorry for the charity shall we?

At least the regeneration company that helped fund the Brittania offered the club a fair price. I guess they were just less profit focused.

 

[Astute]

Or could trust who owned the club.

 

[cloughie]

So it's a hard nosed commercial decision? Fair enough but then let's not feel to sorry for the charity shall we?

At least the regeneration company that helped fund the Brittania offered the club a fair price. I guess they were just less profit focused.

But Grendel ACL make little profit and The higgs make nothing, it goes to paying off the mortgage quicker and just maybe they can then sell to an owner who they can trust at a similar price they paid plus interest.

Biggest problem can anyone trust sisu?

 

[crowsnest]

And if they had not bought the clubs share we would not have had a club and then possibly the stadium build could have become stalled half built

How good would have that been

So they helped the club when we needed money by getting a share in a business at a knock down price.

They did not save the building of the stadium

 

[cloughie]

So they helped the club when we needed money by getting a share in a business at a knock down price.

They did not save the building of the stadium

You maybe right i can't remember the time scale of if the stadium was built or half built or not started etc

 

[Grendel]

But Grendel ACL make little profit and The higgs make nothing, it goes to paying off the mortgage quicker and just maybe they can then sell to an owner who they can trust at a similar price they paid plus interest.

Biggest problem can anyone trust sisu?

We are though told the ground is a gold mine. ACL could make loads of money without the football club. Truth is they can't. The only reason we have any sponsors is the football club. The only reason there is a catering contract is the football club.

The club provides a major portion of revenue and I suspect a higher proportion of profit.

We are being ripped off.

 

[crowsnest]

But Grendel ACL make little profit and The higgs make nothing, it goes to paying off the mortgage quicker and just maybe they can then sell to an owner who they can trust at a similar price they paid plus interest.

Biggest problem can anyone trust sisu?

They make huge profits for the amount of turnover.

Where do you think they get the money to make £3m improvements to the exhibition halls and another £3m to improve the hotel and add extra rooms and other money to reduce the loan to the bank.

 

[cloughie]

We are though told the ground is a gold mine. ACL could make loads of money without the football club. Truth is they can't. The only reason we have any sponsors is the football club. The only reason there is a catering contract is the football club.

The club provides a major portion of revenue and I suspect a higher proportion of profit.

We are being ripped off.

I doubt anyone thinks the rent is fair but that was agreed and will obviously be lowered but the boot is on the other foot at the moment as we are not paying the rent

 

[Grendel]

I doubt anyone thinks the rent is fair but that was agreed and will obviously be lowered but the boot is on the other foot at the moment as we are not paying the rent

Well I think they've already made plenty -- all in the name of charity of course.

 

[crowsnest]

I doubt anyone thinks the rent is fair but that was agreed and will obviously be lowered but the boot is on the other foot at the moment as we are not paying the rent

Acl think the rent is fair as the reduce rent is only available for the next 3 years

Cllr mutton thinks the rent is fair (before elections) "the rent is not negotiable"

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well I think they've already made plenty -- all in the name of charity of course.

Guess Mike shouldn't have sold out then.

 

[thegameaintstraight]

And their 67% rent reduction was dismissed as being wholly untrue. Both sides are playing games with the future of CCFC.

You are bang on there, not often I can say that, but, thegameaintstraight.

 

[CJparker]

CCFC is not a charity, why shouldn't ACL make a profit when renting the ground to us?

To listen to some on here, you'd think we are entitled to a rent-free ground, as well as the council having paid millions for it to be built in the first place.

To repeat, there is no evidence that ACL are/were overcharging for the Ricoh. Don't listen to any of the spurious assertions on here that state otherwise.

 

[deanocity3]

do we pay rent may-july?
did they get money from the Olympics?
The Council aren't losing out as they are now getting rent from 300 properties on the HR site.
CCFC are the losers all round

 

[PhilWasn'tBabb]

Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it so, the fact that ACL has dropped do far, so fast would suggest your wrong.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

yes there are other teams that rent you did not include Leeds in your averages , why is it to high for your averages and well if joy said or for that matter tim said then it is fact

I didn't know Leeds paid rent, and I did say I only know Hull and Ipswich paid rent in the championship and said that was the average from those two. And no, when I want to, and have time, I'll research the average champ rent, think you, and as you can't find figures to refute this claims, you can't bleat 'SISU propaganda', and do your own research before accusing me of buying facts, when I have facts that match Joy's facts.

Also, don't you think someone on here or ACL would've come out and said, no TF, no Joy, no SISU, your figures are wrong? :thinking about:

 

[CJparker]

Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it so, the fact that ACL has dropped do far, so fast would suggest your wrong.

That is not evidence of the rent being too high.

If people claim that "the rent is too high", then the burden of proof is upon them to prove it with evidence. I repeatedly say that there is no evidence to prove this - how can I produce evidence to show there is no evidence? Other than point to the deafening silence and name-calling directed at me every time I point out that ACL is not obliged to give us a ground for free.

 

[PhilWasn'tBabb]

Your argument is self defeating, I agree we don't have all the facts. But I'm sure the ACL do, they have offered to drop the rent by 65 ish % so they clearly accept that given the current circumstances the rent they are charging is too high.

 

[Sky Blues]

Also, don't you think someone on here or ACL would've come out and said, no TF, no Joy, no SISU, your figures are wrong? :thinking about:

1. I've asked for a link to the Football League study JS quoted as I couldn't find it anywhere. No one has provided it as far as I can recall.
2. It's immaterial anyway, the amount paid by each club will depend on the particular circumstances at each club.
3. ACL don't have to engage in the PR guff from JS and TF. They'll know their incomings, outgoings and what they would need from CCFC to make its presence worthwhile. Average rent won't matter to them - just the figure they need the club to pay to make its residency feasible.
4. As Grendel accepts, the rent argument may just be a smokescreen for trying to force ACL into distress.

 

[PhilWasn'tBabb]

I think your point 4 is key, if the issue is just about the rent, then I would think it'll be settled early in the new year. If SISU are trying to force the ACL into admin it'll drag on.

If that's the cases you have to admire the Gordon Gekko size balls of SISU. Not that I want them to ever have there hands on any part of the ground, then we truly would be fecked.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

1. I've asked for a link to the Football League study JS quoted as I couldn't find it anywhere. No one has provided it as far as I can recall.
2. It's immaterial anyway, the amount paid by each club will depend on the particular circumstances at each club.
3. ACL don't have to engage in the PR guff from JS and TF. They'll know their incomings, outgoings and what they would need from CCFC to make its presence worthwhile. Average rent won't matter to them - just the figure they need the club to pay to make its residency feasible.
4. As Grendel accepts, the rent argument may just be a smokescreen for trying to force ACL into distress.

I've found the average is 213k with all rents confirmed, with links, bar Colchester United, hence why I dedicated a thread to it.
Different circumstances, yes, but it doesn't mean the landlord, in our case, the council and a charity (who should look to protect CCFC's best interest) can rip off the tenant and charge over market value.
They don't have to engage in a PR war, but they can disprove figures that are being made to make them look bad
It could be.

It says a lot that the majority of outsiders support CCFC in this saga, whereas the only people who oppose CCFC are... CCFC fans!!! :facepalm:

 

[CJparker]

Why a league 1 average SBT? The Ricoh is not a league one ground in size or cost. Why not run a study of comparably sized grounds like Leicester, Southampton etc?

 

[wingy]

It was beauty of a ground down there today ,I'd say not a lot better than Borough or Hinkley,With all the associated pitfalls such as 2 inches of urine swilling around on the floor,burger van affairs for refreshments.Quality.

 

[CJparker]

If that's the cases you have to admire the Gordon Gekko size balls of SISU. Not that I want them to ever have there hands on any part of the ground, then we truly would be fecked.

You right in your description but I in no way admire it. I would not trust these people to take my rubbish out, never mind run CCFC, but trust is key to running a club alongside otherstakeholders.

As per your other comment about the 67% reduction offer "proving" the rent is too high, this just shows that SISU know they have ACL over a barrel with no other potential tenant to replace CCFC, so Joy "Gekko" Seppala is threatening them with leaving, knowing they have to agree.

 

[PhilWasn'tBabb]

Why a league 1 average SBT? The Ricoh is not a league one ground in size or cost. Why not run a study of comparably sized grounds like Leicester, Southampton etc?

Come on CJ you can answer that one yourself surely. A league one comparison is more likely to support an argument that the rent is too high. If you want to support your argument you should do your own study

 

[PhilWasn'tBabb]

You right in your description but I in no way admire it. I would not trust these people to take my rubbish out, never mind run CCFC, but trust is key to running a club alongside otherstakeholders.

As per your other comment about the 67% reduction offer "proving" the rent is too high, this just shows that SISU know they have ACL over a barrel with no other potential tenant to replace CCFC, so Joy "Gekko" Seppala is threatening them with leaving, knowing they have to agree.

No, don't put words in the ACLs mouth, lets deal just in the facts.. They have dropped the rent figure, therefore they agree it was too high.

 

[Sky Blues]

Different circumstances, yes, but it doesn't mean the landlord, in our case, the council and a charity (who should look to protect CCFC's best interest) can rip off the tenant and charge over market value.

Ah, yes, the "rip-off" argument. If you'd be so kind, walk me through ACLs incomings and outgoings (before and after any renegotiation of their loan terms with the bank) to show me how much more Arena anchor tenant CCFC pay than ACL need them to pay to keep going. Maybe CCFC have been paying significantly over the odds (before they stopped paying at all), but I have yet to see anyone prove it.

 

[Grendel]

You right in your description but I in no way admire it. I would not trust these people to take my rubbish out, never mind run CCFC, but trust is key to running a club alongside otherstakeholders.

As per your other comment about the 67% reduction offer "proving" the rent is too high, this just shows that SISU know they have ACL over a barrel with no other potential tenant to replace CCFC, so Joy "Gekko" Seppala is threatening them with leaving, knowing they have to agree.

See Santa didn't buy you a brain for Christmas C J.