Defence (3 Viewers)

[Terry_dactyl]

BTA is 4th choice striker for me ….. no idea why Carr thought he would be a better option than Simms when replacing Bassette

I put this decision down to thinking BTA’s pace and trickiness might be a better option, given that Sheffield were likely to get everyone back behind the ball.

 

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[fernandopartridge]

I put this decision down to thinking BTA’s pace and trickiness might be a better option, given that Sheffield were likely to get everyone back behind the ball.

What trickiness? His first touch usually tricks himself more than anybody else

 

[Terry_dactyl]

What trickiness? His first touch usually tricks himself more than anybody else

Yeah, I wondered about that as I typed it. I’m sure I’ve seen him previously going past people at at speed…regardless I think my point was that the Sheff Utd defence may have preferred the aerial challenge that Simms offers and that this was my thinking as to why BTA was brought on instead. I too was surprised it wasn’t Simms coming on.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yeah, I wondered about that as I typed it. I’m sure I’ve seen him previously going past people at at speed…regardless I think my point was that the Sheff Utd defence may have preferred the aerial challenge that Simms offers and that this was my thinking as to why BTA was brought on instead. I too was surprised it wasn’t Simms coming on.

I agree to be honest and to be fair Simms when he did eventually get on didn't show much anyway

 

[Deity]

I put this decision down to thinking BTA’s pace and trickiness might be a better option, given that Sheffield were likely to get everyone back behind the ball.

There s no opportunity to run behind when the opposition defence is sat deep.

We needed an instinctive finisher and Ariel threat rather than BTA

 

[Terry_dactyl]

There s no opportunity to run behind when the opposition defence is sat deep.

We needed an instinctive finisher and Ariel threat rather than BTA

Well, some on here might say that he won a penalty by doing just that?

 

[quinn1971]

clearly We need some help at the back and they knew it before the season started, boddy said in the summer in an interview we needed a centre half and a midfielder, doesn’t help that we’ve had a different back 3/4/5 or whatever and 3 keepers so far this season, hard to build an understanding doing that, wer‘e 6th in goals scored, if we can sort out the defence problem we wont be far off, new coach is coming in with really not that much to do, we look ok

 

[The watchmaker]

Averaging conceding 2 goals per match .

We won’t progress without fixing that.

What is to blame ?

Formation, players, or how they are being coached ?

For me it’s a combination of the quality of our defensive players and how they are being coached.

Positional sense of our defensive players is awful.

Either way a key factor that our new manager and coaching set up had to fix.

Do kinda feel this question is above my pay grade and necessitates more evaluation than you can reasonably put in a forum but I will have a go.

I think getting in a proper specialist defensive coach is an easy win and we should obviously do that - I'm not convinced that immediately solves the problem.

Wilder said a lot yesterday which meh but one throw away - he knew we would be vulnerable on the turnover - was quite telling. A small part of the issue over the last 2 seasons imo is the way we set up and us transitioning from a being a team content to hit others on the break to a team that really takes it to the opposition. We score more goals, we conceded more goals. But 2 a game is obvs extreme and switching to a 3 hasn't really improved things that much.

Obviously we are conceding above our xG so there have been some really good strikes in there but what is really noticeable is that often we are playing a defensive formation, have numbers back but no one is even remotely close when the striker shoots. Look at the goals yesterday - players back, no one throwing themselves in for a last ditch tackle. Acres of space.

A bit more pace might help, positional play and also concentration are clearly things to work on. Robins made a lot over the last year about wanting an experienced head back there and he would know better than me but there was a time last season when Kitching and Thomas looked capable, which raises the question where has Kitching gone? Not even close to making it into a back 3 by the looks of it.

Which brings me to 'the deck'. Look at the back 5 yesterday - Dasilva - Binks - Thomas - Lati - MvE. I like them all individually. MvE might be in iffy form but he is a top player at this level. Thomas - I rate. Lati is a really useful utility player. Dasilva is real useful when you are chasing a game but is suspect at the back. Binks has massive potential but is he one of the top defenders in the division at this point? We are not a massive outlier in the league for goals conceded - we are very mid table and tbh that set of defenders looks a bit 'mid table' to me. Kitching and MvE are the only two we really spent money on and if Kitching isn't the answer we probably need to bring in someone who is.

TL;DR - Not convinced it is formation. Bringing in a coach seems a no brainer but with Kitching frozen out I'm not convinced the defence is particularly good on paper.

 

[COVKIDSNEVERQUIT]

I did wonder if Collins could have done better for the 2nd but thought maybe it was just me being over critical

My thoughts too, should have closed the angle down, left the far post to exposed.

 

[We'll_live_and_die]

There's a player in Binks but the rest of them are a shambles. Any constructive attack by the opposition looks like a goal these days. We got lucky with the sending off yesterday

Disagree Bobby T will be quality with more experience, he just gets caught in the wrong position or ok the back foot at times.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Poor coaching is definitely a cause as there's no actual framework and we seriously struggle to cope in transitions. If you look at most of the goals we concede they're largely due to players making rudimentary errors rather than actual moments of quality by the opposition.

Also, as mentioned on a previous thread one of the biggest issues is we struggle to anticipate danger and far too easily fall into pretty traps.

We either break shape far too easily or we're far too flat and easily let attackers in behind. As a unit they're woefully poor at reading potential threats.

There's also very little communication between the back line, which is a stark contrast to the backline of the PO final season where McFadz essentially directed everything.

Players can't be expected to see everything so as a collective they need to speak to each other on the field.

Agree on this.

Both of Sheffield’s goals yesterday felt a bit too easy. You could see 2 passes before the matter because of how all over the place we were.

The issue is two fold in my view. As you rightly point out there’s something not right with the tactics and/or coaching of the team. Secondly, the naivety this ‘deck’ displays on a weekly basis strongly suggests we need 1 or 2 experienced bodies in the line up. We chased and were unsuccessful getting in Browne and Worrall (supposedly) so that ought to remain a focus of the recruitment in Jan and in the summer. McFadz and Kelly have been a big miss as you point out.

 

[shmmeee]

It was the most vulnerable part of the deck last season and we didn’t do a single thing to improve it in the summer. People spent the whole time bleating about signing more keepers and spare Ben Sheafs.

Wasn’t an experienced CB near the top of everyone’s list?

 

[Skyblue Bangkok]

Agree on this.

Both of Sheffield’s goals yesterday felt a bit too easy. You could see 2 passes before the matter because of how all over the place we were.

The issue is two fold in my view. As you rightly point out there’s something not right with the tactics and/or coaching of the team. Secondly, the naivety this ‘deck’ displays on a weekly basis strongly suggests we need 1 or 2 experienced bodies in the line up. We chased and were unsuccessful getting in Browne and Worrall (supposedly) so that ought to remain a focus of the recruitment in Jan and in the summer. McFadz and Kelly have been a big miss as you point out.

How many games has McFazdean played this season and Kelly isn't exactly pulling Rotherham up the league.

 

[clint van damme]

How many games has McFazdean played this season and Kelly isn't exactly pulling Rotherham up the league.

We miss those type of players though. They needed replacing.

 

[Monty]

We miss those type of players though. They needed replacing.

Just this it's the experience and leadership in training as well. Kelly and McFafzean 4 years ago were fantastic and it is what we need 29 30 year old who have seen it and can calmly lead

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

How many games has McFazdean played this season and Kelly isn't exactly pulling Rotherham up the league.

The point wasn’t that we shouldn’t have kept them. It time for them to move on, the issue is that there’s been no experienced players to replace them.

Thomas and Kitching had spoken on how well they got on with McFadz and his influence on them in training (iirc). Coincidentally, the initial defensive successes we had when we switched to 4-2-3-1 seemed to slowly disintegrate after McFadz left the club. It may not be related but the impact of having strong leader around a young group of players could only be a positive in my view.

 

[wingy]

So what’s the go with the keeper situation currently?

What is the reason Collins is starting? Is it cause he is preferred by Carr? Are Wilson or Dovin injured?

Agree with Saddlebrains, we need to bin Aled Williams off.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh god, I can see it now,Cooper Carr and Aled, it's happening!

 

[Macca1987]

To me there was a lot of fault for the two goals. We left Hamer with wide open space to receive the ball for both goals. We know what he can do, so Eccles of Sheaf should have been tight on him
Goal no 1 after Hamer gets it, DaSilva is ball watching, he does this a lot and let's the man get round the back of him, I thought from where I sat that Thomas could have played it behind, but seeing it back on the TV, he was too far away from it, Lati again let his man get in front of him
Goal 2, Dasilva wins the ball well but then with about 5 or 6 players all together within 10 yards of him decides to play a little ball into one of our players who is already marked, clear the bloody thing up the pitch and no goal results, instead their player wins it and it goes straight to Hamer again, he plays the ball through and Lati is left wanting for speed again, why he didn't try and slide and block the shot I don't know
All in all we are giving away silly goals, but the defence and defence midfield need to step up and take account of what is going on

 

[mmttww]

I'm convinced we've got a back four within the 'deck' that's good enough to be where we want with decent coaching and tactics.

We were pretty stingy for a chunk of last season with dumb mistakes from fairly young inexperienced players as the issue.

I get we need better at LB eventually but I'd rather we sort a solid no. 6 in Jan with someone that can cover RB properly first.

 

[Hobo]

The give away from Dasilva and the speed (lack of) at which Lati closed down the shot was criminal.

Yes Dasilva poor pass, then United shifted the ball first time to Hamer whose pass was superb and wrong footed our defence. Their striker hits it first time and it's a great finish. If he had taken a touch he doesn't score.

 

[JSL]

Aled Williams

Hes Incompetent as a keeper coach let alone defence

Hopefully Lamps can bring Cole with him and Aleds told he can move on

I agree. How he got the job in the first place is beyond me. He should stick to singing the snowman song

 

[junglej13]

Bar Van Ewijk I don't rate one of our defenders in the slightest. Playing Dasilva is like giving the opposition a one goal advantage. He literally should not play for the club again. Collins the same. Thomas is also so poor. He can head a ball and that is it - can't pass or concentrate for 90mins. Lati is committed but he's so limited. Whoever comes in needs to completely overhaul defence.

 

[Incognitocov]

Bar Van Ewijk I don't rate one of our defenders in the slightest. Playing Dasilva is like giving the opposition a one goal advantage. He literally should not play for the club again. Collins the same. Thomas is also so poor. He can head a ball and that is it - can't pass or concentrate for 90mins. Lati is committed but he's so limited. Whoever comes in needs to completely overhaul defence.

JDS not at fault for either goal tonight. Tats let his man run and inexplicably went to mark JDS’ already marked man. The second goal was just a freak event.

 

[SeaSeeEffCee]

I don’t think we have a single good defender at the club.

 

[Cally Fedora]

It’s a total rebuild job for me.
Dasilva and Binks just can’t defend, enough said.
Thomas is a last gasp out of position lunger who gives the ball away with 50% of his passes.
Lati is just an old fashioned hoofer that we try and play through.
MVE is positionally awful but has pace and Kitching seems to be desperate to lose his head at every possible opportunity

 

[Nick]

We need a left back for starters. Maybe a decent full back will shore up the left side a bit

 

[Mcbean]

New goalie required for me

 

[junglej13]

JDS not at fault for either goal tonight. Tats let his man run and inexplicably went to mark JDS’ already marked man. The second goal was just a freak event.

I'm not sure we have ever kept a clean sheet when he has started. I genuinely don't think we have.

 

[hinckley cov]

I did wonder if Collins could have done better for the 2nd but thought maybe it was just me being over critical

The second was just a fluke

 

[hinckley cov]

Disagree Bobby T will be quality with more experience, he just gets caught in the wrong position or ok the back foot at times.

Thomas loses the ball far to often for me and that was the worst game I have seen Binks have .

 

[AFCCOVENTRY]

I’m answer to the title thread…. Has anyone seen where our defence is this season?

 

[SBT]

New goalie required for me

What a joke

 

[Cally Fedora]

JDS not at fault for either goal tonight. Tats let his man run and inexplicably went to mark JDS’ already marked man. The second goal was just a freak event.

A freak event after we’d had the normal “after you Claude” debacle in our own danger zone. Hitting row Z is a horrendously underused tactic from us in those situations.

 

[Shannerz]

I don’t think we have a single good defender at the club.

MvE is a quality right back, but not particularly effective as a wingback.

I like Thomas, he's raw and learning, but has great potential. But you need an experienced player to bring a player like that on, and he doesn't have it.

 

[speedie87]

Our goal keeper performances last few seasons have been horrific