Trump is my favourite comedian of the year already (23 Viewers)

[MalcSB]

Backfired though as they all want to vote for reform

They haven’t bought it in yet. I would be besides myself with laughter if they do bring it in and the new electorate support reform.

For avoidance of doubt, and for consistency, I think giving 16 - 18 year olds the vote would be totally barmy.

 

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[The Philosopher]

In the same way giving votes to 16 year olds isn’t cheating but is clearly being looked at for political advantage

The overarching aim of having ID is to prevent rule breaking. Eg, a passport for travel, a driving licence to make sure that the person driving can actually drive / isn’t banned (for breaking rules), other ID to buy alcohol, fireworks or even paracetamol.

Here is the debate water cannon:

To claim benefits, you will require a bank account - which requires ID. It may be that in super exceptional circumstances benefits can be claimed over a post office counter, requiring ID.

THIS IS THE SAME IN THE USA BTW

To say that voter ID discriminates against to poorest in society is for the birds and is akin to saying poor people are stupid.

There is no sane argument that I’ve heard to justify voting without ID.

It is of course a pure coincidence that the Democrats won every state without voter ID (it is genuinely a coincidence but it will be at least interesting to see what happens if voter ID is brought in. Will the numbers change? It might shut up the conspiracy theorists, equally, it might encourage some people to vote who previously thought it a waste of time. )

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

In the same way giving votes to 16 year olds isn’t cheating but is clearly being looked at for political advantage

As a general principle, we should be making it easier to vote, not harder.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That’s his opinion. When did you start believing everything Tory toff’s say?

When the stupid ones say the quiet part out loud like he did there

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The overarching aim of having ID is to prevent rule breaking. Eg, a passport for travel, a driving licence to make sure that the person driving can actually drive / isn’t banned (for breaking rules), other ID to buy alcohol, fireworks or even paracetamol.

Here is the debate water cannon:

To claim benefits, you will require a bank account - which requires ID. It may be that in super exceptional circumstances benefits can be claimed over a post office counter, requiring ID.

THIS IS THE SAME IN THE USA BTW

To say that voter ID discriminates against to poorest in society is for the birds and is akin to saying poor people are stupid.

There is no sane argument that I’ve heard to justify voting without ID.

It is of course a pure coincidence that the Democrats won every state without voter ID (it is genuinely a coincidence but it will be at least interesting to see what happens if voter ID is brought in. Will the numbers change? It might shut up the conspiracy theorists, equally, it might encourage some people to vote who previously thought it a waste of time. )

It’s a voter suppression tactic, nothing else.

 

[MalcSB]

TBH I’m personally all for ID cards, to be used when accessing the NHS, voting, etc. I don’t get what the objection has been, no one objects to the concept of having a driver licence, bus pass, passport or library card. Everything could be rolled on to one smart card.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

TBH I’m personally all for ID cards, to be used when accessing the NHS, voting, etc. I don’t get what the objection has been, no one objects to the concept of having a driver licence, bus pass, passport or library card. Everything could be rolled on to one smart card.

Explain to me why people shouldn’t be automatically registered to vote when they turn 18.

 

[MalcSB]

Explain to me why people shouldn’t be automatically registered to vote when they turn 18.

Explain to me why we shouldn’t have ID cards to access public services to show we are entitled to them.

 

[SBT]

Explain to me why we shouldn’t have ID cards to access public services to show we are entitled to them.

Because it may dissuade people who are entitled to basic services and rights from making use of them.

If the number of people incorrectly dissuaded is greater than the number of people correctly prevented from using them, you have to question the wisdom of such a scheme.

 

[Como]

None of the Above would have been a clear winner

 

[The Philosopher]

Because it may dissuade people who are entitled to basic services and rights from making use of them.

If the number of people incorrectly dissuaded is greater than the number of people correctly prevented from using them, you have to question the wisdom of such a scheme.

Such as….?

 

[Como]

 

[MalcSB]

Because it may dissuade people who are entitled to basic services and rights from making use of them.

If the number of people incorrectly dissuaded is greater than the number of people correctly prevented from using them, you have to question the wisdom of such a scheme.

Who is going to be dissuaded from using NHS services to which they are entitled, for example?

Some health tourists cost a fortune, for example women with complicated pregnancies who have been advised to come here from overseas. Soon run up a fortune in bills in a London hospital and then leave without paying.

Loads of people are entitled to things which they don’t automatically get by just turning up and saying, for example, I would like some pension credit, please. The government already has all the financial information required to enable payment of that automatically.

Im not dissuaded from using free bus travel because I have to show a form of ID to prove entitlement, I.e. a bus pass. When I lived in France, I had to show my carte vitale if I needed healthcare. It wouldn’t have dissuaded me from accessing a health service there if I had needed it.

 

[SBT]

Who is going to be dissuaded from using NHS services to which they are entitled, for example?

Some health tourists cost a fortune, for example women with complicated pregnancies who have been advised to come here from overseas. Soon run up a fortune in bills in a London hospital and then leave without paying.

Loads of people are entitled to things which they don’t automatically get by just turning up and saying, for example, I would like some pension credit, please. The government already has all the financial information required to enable payment of that automatically.

Im not dissuaded from using free bus travel because I have to show a form of ID to prove entitlement, I.e. a bus pass. When I lived in France, I had to show my carte vitale if I needed healthcare. It wouldn’t have dissuaded me from accessing a health service there if I had needed it.

They tested an ID scheme out in Peterborough a few years ago and found that some NHS-eligible patients would likely struggle to get the necessary ID: NHS ID scheme could deter eligible patients, say MPs

 

[MalcSB]

They tested an ID scheme out in Peterborough a few years ago and found that some NHS-eligible patients would likely struggle to get the necessary ID: NHS ID scheme could deter eligible patients, say MPs

Perhaps if they had actually piloted a proper ID card scheme the outcome may have been entirely different. What they did sounds like the proverbial dog’s breakfast of a scheme. I know I have a card with my NHS number on it somewhere, that could quite easily be developed in to a suitable entitlement card. FFS we all carry store loyalty cards around with us, why not an ID or NHS card?

 

[SBT]

Perhaps if they had actually piloted a proper ID card scheme the outcome may have been entirely different. What they did sounds like the proverbial dog’s breakfast of a scheme.

Didn't have you down as a Francophile turbo-bureaucrat, but vive la difference

 

[MalcSB]

Didn't have you down as a Francophile turbo-bureaucrat, but vive la difference

Not necessarily a Francophile, we have been back in the UK since 2016 (pre referendum).

Their health system is pretty good, and of course the bureaucracy keeps loads of people employed. You do need to show proof of entitlement or means to pay though, and it is a bit of a hybrid state / personal health insurance set up.

I really liked their income tax system as well. Paid a hell of a lot less than here. Food prices were lower, as were beer and wine.

Loads of locals where we lived would have liked a Frexit, but then it was Brittany and lots of Bretons would like independence from France.

 

[Sick Boy]

TBH I’m personally all for ID cards, to be used when accessing the NHS, voting, etc. I don’t get what the objection has been, no one objects to the concept of having a driver licence, bus pass, passport or library card. Everything could be rolled on to one smart card.

I’ve got one and don’t see the issue; I’ve also got a card to access anything healthcare related.

 

[The Philosopher]

I’ve got one and don’t see the issue; I’ve also got a card to access anything healthcare related.

We are all given a number at 16 which records all our details until we die.

We are all just a number.

Most of us have phones or banking apps that required facial or thumbprint technology.

It’s not a question of if, but when, facial recognition or dna profiling becomes part of a government database. We can all be tracked by our IP addresses, soon all transactions will be cashless and everything we spend money on will be logged forever, many of us have an NHS App with vaccine history - it goes on. It’s inevitable and whilst I don’t like it, I don’t really care since I have nothing to hide.

Yet there are some that think that Voter ID infringes rights?

 

[shmmeee]

lose aura.

I didn’t realise you were 12, TBF gives me a whole new perspective.

 

[shmmeee]

Instances of voter fraud in the US or here occur at a minuscule rate that does not justify voter ID laws. In the US they are the preserve of Republican states trying to suppress the votes of groups likely to vote Democrat. In one notorious example Texan attorney general Ken Paxton openly bragged about rejecting huge numbers of postal ballots in 2020 in order to secure the state for Trump.

The Conservatives passed ID laws here and even admitted that gerrymandering was the thinking behind it.

Even Tower Hamlets the actual voter fraud allegations were a tiny part and unlikely to have changed the election result from what I can tell. We aren’t talking thousands of ballots but maybe a handful of people voting twice or whatever. The intimidation and the like was far worse in TH.

 

[The Philosopher]

I didn’t realise you were 12, TBF gives me a whole new perspective.

If I were 12 I’d be calling you a “liberal”, which is, ironically a huge insult amongst kids today.

 

[shmmeee]

If I were 12 I’d be calling you a “liberal”, which is, ironically a huge insult amongst kids today.

I have teenage kids. I’ve literally never heard that but OK.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Pretty astonishing levels of cluelessness here, and some parallels with Labour strategists.

 

[MalcSB]

If Trump pardons himself then he will lose aura. Not sure his ego will allow him that. Let’s see. In the meantime it’s irrelevant conjecture to obfuscate clear Democrat dishonesty. That’s that.

WRT getting to the moon, the US beat the USSR using technology and flight log data they’ve since lost, and returned via a lander made from incredible looking advanced materials. There are mirrors planted on the moon before they went that proved they went (in America)there. Some idiots believe that the USA didn’t go. Those people are morons for even questioning it.

Of course they got a man on the moon.

WRT to Hunter Biden’s laptop, it was all false information, 51 intelligence officials signed a letter.

The US government always tells the truth.

I wasn't denying the truth of the moon landings, I was just wondering how they found sufficient intelligent life forms in the USA to actually pull it off, given the level of thickness they seem to demonstrate every election.

 

[shmmeee]

I wasn't denying the truth of the moon landings, I was just wondering how they found sufficient intelligent life forms in the USA to actually pull it off, given the level of thickness they seem to demonstrate every election.

Operation Paperclip - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[CovValleyBoy]

I wasn't denying the truth of the moon landings, I was just wondering how they found sufficient intelligent life forms in the USA to actually pull it off, given the level of thickness they seem to demonstrate every election.

Well our lot didn't make a bad job of it either in the summer

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I wasn't denying the truth of the moon landings, I was just wondering how they found sufficient intelligent life forms in the USA to actually pull it off, given the level of thickness they seem to demonstrate every election.

It’s still the home of NASA and MIT to be fair.

 

[tisza]

I’ve got one and don’t see the issue; I’ve also got a card to access anything healthcare related.

same here. Id card, healthcard, address card , residency etc. Plus a govt id that enables me to a host of official things online rather than attending/queueing in person. Also had to give biometric fingerprints. I do have to carry some kind of offical id with a picture on it. Think nearly all of these document are compulsory across EU.
Don't get the resistance to id cards etc.

 

[shmmeee]

same here. Id card, healthcard, address card , residency etc. Plus a govt id that enables me to a host of official things online rather than attending/queueing in person. Also had to give biometric fingerprints. I do have to carry some kind of offical id with a picture on it. Think nearly all of these document are compulsory across EU.
Don't get the resistance to id cards etc.

Mostly this:

 

[Nuskyblue]

​

Stop the boats!

 

[Nuskyblue]

Stop the boats. Send them back.

Beat me to it you rouge!

 

[SBT]

Not Trump-related, but the CEO of America’s biggest private insurance company being assassinated in Midtown on the day of their investor conference is truly insane.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Looking for the cheat bit. Looking hard. Nope.

Gain an advantage using legal means is not cheating.

You know, like choosing which end to kick off from if the sun is low when winning the toss. Is that cheating?

Try again, please stop me thinking you are absolutely absurd….

Please…

The CHEATING bit….? (waiting)

If you looked carefully I said 'cheat'.

It was deliberately put forward to suppress voting in those less likely to vote Tory, under a pretense that it was solving a big issue in voter fraud which was in reality virtually non existent. This is what was being referred to when JRM was mentioned. It may have stopped a handful of voter fraud incidences, but if that stops thousands, or more likely tens of thousands, from voting legitimately then it's a bad policy.

So it was 'cheating' in that the reasons being put forward for it were dishonest and has ulterior motives.

 

[Como]

If you looked carefully I said 'cheat'.

It was deliberately put forward to suppress voting in those less likely to vote Tory, under a pretense that it was solving a big issue in voter fraud which was in reality virtually non existent. This is what was being referred to when JRM was mentioned. It may have stopped a handful of voter fraud incidences, but if that stops thousands, or more likely tens of thousands, from voting legitimately then it's a bad policy.

So it was 'cheating' in that the reasons being put forward for it were dishonest and has ulterior motives.

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