How do you solve a problem like Ben Sheaf (7 Viewers)

Bigelvesy

Well-Known Member
I've been reading alot of criticism of Sheaf on the forum this season, and i hear alot at the games too, mainly from the two lads sat in front of me to be honest but there we go. Cards on the table up front, I'm a huge fan of Sheaf although I can also see clearly that he hasnt been at his best this season.
I think the vast majority of criticism of him however, is unjustified and the notion that he has drastically dropped in value and we should sell him asap for whatever price we can still get is frankly absurd.

For the last two seasons, he has consistently been a top performer for the club, and drawn the attention of premier league teams. These are the types of players we should be trying to hold onto for as long as possible, they are the players that will take us where we want to be, but we also need to be set up, and have the players around them, to bring out the best in them and keep them performing at that high level.

Right now, with Sheaf, we havent done that and i believe that is why his performances havent been easy on the eye this season so far.

Firstly, He is clearly still carrying a knock, playing through injury and on other occasions has been rushed back. Why? Because we rely on him. When he didnt start the season through injury, we were all waiting for his return and essentially saying 'When Sheaf is back, we'll be better'. I think Saddle even mentioned that he was aware of this and was feeling the weight of this expectation (up to you if you choose to believe that particular ITK leak)

Secondly, we're currently asking and expecting him to be a do it all midfielder, covering the roles he is used to and also taking on some responsibility previously given to Hamer and O'hare. IMO Sheaf operates best when he doesnt pass the middle of the opponents half, he sweeps and breaks up attacks and threads the ball from the defenders to the more attacking midfielder, this used to be Hamer, we havent got anyone in this mould now. With the lack of a real 10 (I like Rudoni, but he's not an out and out 10 like O'hare) this is even more stark as the task of trying to play cutting risky forward passes that get the team moving is now also on him and honestly, thats not his skillset.

Thirdly, Eccles is the same player. Sheaf doesnt need a carbon copy of himself beside him, he needs something different, and i believe the Sheaf/Eccles axis is our current problem in the slow sideways build up play when they both drop into the defensive line. In the summer, we all spoke of a need to get someone in alongside Sheaf, it was never about having someone next to eccles/torp or rudoni.

I really hope we're able to get someone in to work alongside Sheaf and allow him to get back to doing his primary role as i would really hate to see his time here tarnished in the way i feel its looked at currently.
 

Bigelvesy

Well-Known Member
Sell up and move on at this point TBH. Love the guy but he’s not on it at all this season and I want a much more dynamic midfield.
Personally think its mental to want to sell on a player thats attracted interest from clubs in higher divisions after consistently high performances for 2/3 seasons because of less than 24 games of a season whilst he's been playing with an injury. The class is permanent just needs the right dynamic midfield ,as you put it, around him. We'll ship way more goals when he's gone than we do now
 

djr8369

Well-Known Member
Struggling with old injury and has some changing personal circumstances which could be a distraction, along with the captaincy.

Real quality though so I think don’t write him off.
 

Gint11

Well-Known Member
1. Is he fit
2. Has he downed tools
3. If 2, is it because he wants out or because we stopped a move
4. Zero confidence like the rest.

BUT for me:

He’s injury prone and not a leader.
Last year of his contract, let him go in the summer.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Personally think its mental to want to sell on a player thats attracted interest from clubs in higher divisions after consistently high performances for 2/3 seasons because of less than 24 games of a season whilst he's been playing with an injury. The class is permanent just needs the right dynamic midfield ,as you put it, around him. We'll ship way more goals when he's gone than we do now

The only interest he attracted was Luton wasn’t it?
 

SkyBlueSteve81

Active Member
Personally I think Frank should be having an honest conversation with Sheaf about his intentions. If his intention is to leave then hand it over to Doug to get the best deal possible, if there is an appealing deal to be had now and we can bring in a replacement then do it this month. If not certainly the summer.

If he's interested in staying then Doug needs to be extending his contract by a year or 2 and building the midfield around him.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Personally think its mental to want to sell on a player thats attracted interest from clubs in higher divisions after consistently high performances for 2/3 seasons because of less than 24 games of a season whilst he's been playing with an injury. The class is permanent just needs the right dynamic midfield ,as you put it, around him. We'll ship way more goals when he's gone than we do now

im fairly certain he’s only here cos he likes robins and was giving us one more year. I think he’ll be gone in the summer regardless. And as hell only have a year left best to sell asap.
 

The watchmaker

Well-Known Member
Hasn't looked fit since he came back in and you wonder whether his new injury is a consequence of that
Go right back to the first game against Stoke when we started with Allen and Torp (who had barely played preseason), then threw Eccles on second half even though he was clearly not fit... in fact go back to the beginning of last season when we sold Hamer, Sheaf was injured and Eccles ran himself out playing every single minute it has been quite clear that the midfield is short both in numbers and potentially first 11. Questionable judgement from King implying otherwise.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
46 league games a season. This is how many games a season he's played:

23/24 - 31
22/23 - 37
21/22 - 35
20/21 - 30

Spends too much time out injured. Combined with his poor form and total lack of leadership, I would get rid.
 
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JSL

Well-Known Member
One issue is we want a tough tackling midfielder with the skills of Pele but in this day and age, if players go around trying that, and at the pace of the modern game, they are bound to get injured. We cant have it all unless they are an exceptional individual.

But passing to your one of your own teammates cant be that strenuous :ROFLMAO:
 

oscillatewildly

Well-Known Member
I've been reading alot of criticism of Sheaf on the forum this season, and i hear alot at the games too, mainly from the two lads sat in front of me to be honest but there we go. Cards on the table up front, I'm a huge fan of Sheaf although I can also see clearly that he hasnt been at his best this season.
I think the vast majority of criticism of him however, is unjustified and the notion that he has drastically dropped in value and we should sell him asap for whatever price we can still get is frankly absurd.

For the last two seasons, he has consistently been a top performer for the club, and drawn the attention of premier league teams. These are the types of players we should be trying to hold onto for as long as possible, they are the players that will take us where we want to be, but we also need to be set up, and have the players around them, to bring out the best in them and keep them performing at that high level.

Right now, with Sheaf, we havent done that and i believe that is why his performances havent been easy on the eye this season so far.

Firstly, He is clearly still carrying a knock, playing through injury and on other occasions has been rushed back. Why? Because we rely on him. When he didnt start the season through injury, we were all waiting for his return and essentially saying 'When Sheaf is back, we'll be better'. I think Saddle even mentioned that he was aware of this and was feeling the weight of this expectation (up to you if you choose to believe that particular ITK leak)

Secondly, we're currently asking and expecting him to be a do it all midfielder, covering the roles he is used to and also taking on some responsibility previously given to Hamer and O'hare. IMO Sheaf operates best when he doesnt pass the middle of the opponents half, he sweeps and breaks up attacks and threads the ball from the defenders to the more attacking midfielder, this used to be Hamer, we havent got anyone in this mould now. With the lack of a real 10 (I like Rudoni, but he's not an out and out 10 like O'hare) this is even more stark as the task of trying to play cutting risky forward passes that get the team moving is now also on him and honestly, thats not his skillset.

Thirdly, Eccles is the same player. Sheaf doesnt need a carbon copy of himself beside him, he needs something different, and i believe the Sheaf/Eccles axis is our current problem in the slow sideways build up play when they both drop into the defensive line. In the summer, we all spoke of a need to get someone in alongside Sheaf, it was never about having someone next to eccles/torp or rudoni.

I really hope we're able to get someone in to work alongside Sheaf and allow him to get back to doing his primary role as i would really hate to see his time here tarnished in the way i feel its looked at currently.
Big difference between 'attention' and 'intention' re Prem clubs interest.
For me, Sheaf flatters to deceive far too often.
 

Sky Blue Goblin

Well-Known Member
This is a difficult question. Hurt us a lot this year with his injuries. I do wonder if he has been playing injured all year or is simply snatching too much with his passes.

Either way, since he’s out of contract next summer would look to sell.

Would be tempted to bring in Lewis now and use funds from the summer to fund him or now if there is concrete interest. Another good option to pick up in the summer would be Lewis Bate (League one but read a post recommended him and his stats look brilliant).
 

AOM

Well-Known Member
Fitness and injuries aside, I'd take the captaincy off him for a start.
Don't think he's really a leader and would prefer he just focuses on his own role in the team without the extra responsibility.

Think his head might have been turned though at some point, or he's got his eye on being elsewhere in the near future
 

Bigelvesy

Well-Known Member
46 league games a season. This is how many games a season he's played:

23/24 - 31
22/23 - 37
21/22 - 35
20/21 - 30

Spends too much time out injured. Combined with his poor formula and total lack of leadership, I would get rid.
I think looking at those stats thats mental to think he’s out alot. Sometimes we play 3 games a week…so he missed 2 weeks and thats 4 games there. 2 weeks over the course of a season…

i think we should be looking at those stats and seeing “fuck me we depend on him week in week out what are we going go to do when he moves on”
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
I think looking at those stats thats mental to think he’s out alot. Sometimes we play 3 games a week…so he missed 2 weeks and thats 4 games there. 2 weeks over the course of a season…

i think we should be looking at those stats and seeing “fuck me we depend on him week in week out what are we going go to do when he moves on”

Missing a third of a season, year after year isn't something to be celebrated.
 

shepardo01

Well-Known Member
I've been reading alot of criticism of Sheaf on the forum this season, and i hear alot at the games too, mainly from the two lads sat in front of me to be honest but there we go. Cards on the table up front, I'm a huge fan of Sheaf although I can also see clearly that he hasnt been at his best this season.
I think the vast majority of criticism of him however, is unjustified and the notion that he has drastically dropped in value and we should sell him asap for whatever price we can still get is frankly absurd.

For the last two seasons, he has consistently been a top performer for the club, and drawn the attention of premier league teams. These are the types of players we should be trying to hold onto for as long as possible, they are the players that will take us where we want to be, but we also need to be set up, and have the players around them, to bring out the best in them and keep them performing at that high level.

Right now, with Sheaf, we havent done that and i believe that is why his performances havent been easy on the eye this season so far.

Firstly, He is clearly still carrying a knock, playing through injury and on other occasions has been rushed back. Why? Because we rely on him. When he didnt start the season through injury, we were all waiting for his return and essentially saying 'When Sheaf is back, we'll be better'. I think Saddle even mentioned that he was aware of this and was feeling the weight of this expectation (up to you if you choose to believe that particular ITK leak)

Secondly, we're currently asking and expecting him to be a do it all midfielder, covering the roles he is used to and also taking on some responsibility previously given to Hamer and O'hare. IMO Sheaf operates best when he doesnt pass the middle of the opponents half, he sweeps and breaks up attacks and threads the ball from the defenders to the more attacking midfielder, this used to be Hamer, we havent got anyone in this mould now. With the lack of a real 10 (I like Rudoni, but he's not an out and out 10 like O'hare) this is even more stark as the task of trying to play cutting risky forward passes that get the team moving is now also on him and honestly, thats not his skillset.

Thirdly, Eccles is the same player. Sheaf doesnt need a carbon copy of himself beside him, he needs something different, and i believe the Sheaf/Eccles axis is our current problem in the slow sideways build up play when they both drop into the defensive line. In the summer, we all spoke of a need to get someone in alongside Sheaf, it was never about having someone next to eccles/torp or rudoni.

I really hope we're able to get someone in to work alongside Sheaf and allow him to get back to doing his primary role as i would really hate to see his time here tarnished in the way i feel its looked at currently.
Great post. Absolutely the same view that I have.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Firstly, we need to assess whether his injury is healed. If not, then we need to focus on getting that right rather than rushing him into the team not fully fit. As has been said Eccles is a similar player so give him that role.

I also think about whether he's feeling the burden of the captaincy, but at the same time to take it off him at this point of the season would almost certainly affect his morale and TBH he doesn't seem quite as committed now anyway, though again that may be due to injury. If we signed an experienced player with captain experience maybe we could get away with it.

Selling him now would be disruptive to the squad but as always depends on the fee we could get and who we could use that to replace him. Maybe we'd bring in a loan for the rest of the season to cover for him if we can't get the right player now (though we seemed to make a hash of the midfield recruitment this summer and it would be Austin recruiting who I have little faith in.

I'm pretty sure he'll leave in the summer regardless.
 

Skyblue Bangkok

Well-Known Member
Firstly, we need to assess whether his injury is healed. If not, then we need to focus on getting that right rather than rushing him into the team not fully fit. As has been said Eccles is a similar player so give him that role.

I also think about whether he's feeling the burden of the captaincy, but at the same time to take it off him at this point of the season would almost certainly affect his morale and TBH he doesn't seem quite as committed now anyway, though again that may be due to injury. If we signed an experienced player with captain experience maybe we could get away with it.

Selling him now would be disruptive to the squad but as always depends on the fee we could get and who we could use that to replace him. Maybe we'd bring in a loan for the rest of the season to cover for him if we can't get the right player now (though we seemed to make a hash of the midfield recruitment this summer and it would be Austin recruiting who I have little faith in.

I'm pretty sure he'll leave in the summer regardless.
In football being captain is a just a symbolic role , it's not like in cricket where the captain is involved in tactics and helping the selectors decide on a squad for a game. I hardly see any football player being burdened by being a " captain". God help us though if Eccles and Allen and Torp are the midfield choice, 2 of those are players who are about League 1 level.
 

eyesee

Well-Known Member
this is easily solved. we need hamer 2.0. irrespective of what happens to sheaf.
sort that out and a lot of our problems are solved, or at least reduced.
 

Adge

Well-Known Member
I've been reading alot of criticism of Sheaf on the forum this season, and i hear alot at the games too, mainly from the two lads sat in front of me to be honest but there we go. Cards on the table up front, I'm a huge fan of Sheaf although I can also see clearly that he hasnt been at his best this season.
I think the vast majority of criticism of him however, is unjustified and the notion that he has drastically dropped in value and we should sell him asap for whatever price we can still get is frankly absurd.

For the last two seasons, he has consistently been a top performer for the club, and drawn the attention of premier league teams. These are the types of players we should be trying to hold onto for as long as possible, they are the players that will take us where we want to be, but we also need to be set up, and have the players around them, to bring out the best in them and keep them performing at that high level.

Right now, with Sheaf, we havent done that and i believe that is why his performances havent been easy on the eye this season so far.

Firstly, He is clearly still carrying a knock, playing through injury and on other occasions has been rushed back. Why? Because we rely on him. When he didnt start the season through injury, we were all waiting for his return and essentially saying 'When Sheaf is back, we'll be better'. I think Saddle even mentioned that he was aware of this and was feeling the weight of this expectation (up to you if you choose to believe that particular ITK leak)

Secondly, we're currently asking and expecting him to be a do it all midfielder, covering the roles he is used to and also taking on some responsibility previously given to Hamer and O'hare. IMO Sheaf operates best when he doesnt pass the middle of the opponents half, he sweeps and breaks up attacks and threads the ball from the defenders to the more attacking midfielder, this used to be Hamer, we havent got anyone in this mould now. With the lack of a real 10 (I like Rudoni, but he's not an out and out 10 like O'hare) this is even more stark as the task of trying to play cutting risky forward passes that get the team moving is now also on him and honestly, thats not his skillset.

Thirdly, Eccles is the same player. Sheaf doesnt need a carbon copy of himself beside him, he needs something different, and i believe the Sheaf/Eccles axis is our current problem in the slow sideways build up play when they both drop into the defensive line. In the summer, we all spoke of a need to get someone in alongside Sheaf, it was never about having someone next to eccles/torp or rudoni.

I really hope we're able to get someone in to work alongside Sheaf and allow him to get back to doing his primary role as i would really hate to see his time here tarnished in the way i feel its looked at currently.
Keep Sheaf and get rid of Eccles.
 

Senior Vick from Alicante

Well-Known Member
The issue is he's been having to do it all on his own this season. He was at his best when he sits deep, breaks up play and finds out attacking midfielders. Due to their poor return he's tried to take on a more forward roll as well and it's not his game but he has tried as he feels a responsibility to as captain. We need a Hamer or Ohare type player to get the best out of him.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
I've been reading alot of criticism of Sheaf on the forum this season, and i hear alot at the games too, mainly from the two lads sat in front of me to be honest but there we go. Cards on the table up front, I'm a huge fan of Sheaf although I can also see clearly that he hasnt been at his best this season.
I think the vast majority of criticism of him however, is unjustified and the notion that he has drastically dropped in value and we should sell him asap for whatever price we can still get is frankly absurd.

For the last two seasons, he has consistently been a top performer for the club, and drawn the attention of premier league teams. These are the types of players we should be trying to hold onto for as long as possible, they are the players that will take us where we want to be, but we also need to be set up, and have the players around them, to bring out the best in them and keep them performing at that high level.

Right now, with Sheaf, we havent done that and i believe that is why his performances havent been easy on the eye this season so far.

Firstly, He is clearly still carrying a knock, playing through injury and on other occasions has been rushed back. Why? Because we rely on him. When he didnt start the season through injury, we were all waiting for his return and essentially saying 'When Sheaf is back, we'll be better'. I think Saddle even mentioned that he was aware of this and was feeling the weight of this expectation (up to you if you choose to believe that particular ITK leak)

Secondly, we're currently asking and expecting him to be a do it all midfielder, covering the roles he is used to and also taking on some responsibility previously given to Hamer and O'hare. IMO Sheaf operates best when he doesnt pass the middle of the opponents half, he sweeps and breaks up attacks and threads the ball from the defenders to the more attacking midfielder, this used to be Hamer, we havent got anyone in this mould now. With the lack of a real 10 (I like Rudoni, but he's not an out and out 10 like O'hare) this is even more stark as the task of trying to play cutting risky forward passes that get the team moving is now also on him and honestly, thats not his skillset.

Thirdly, Eccles is the same player. Sheaf doesnt need a carbon copy of himself beside him, he needs something different, and i believe the Sheaf/Eccles axis is our current problem in the slow sideways build up play when they both drop into the defensive line. In the summer, we all spoke of a need to get someone in alongside Sheaf, it was never about having someone next to eccles/torp or rudoni.

I really hope we're able to get someone in to work alongside Sheaf and allow him to get back to doing his primary role as i would really hate to see his time here tarnished in the way i feel its looked at currently.

Has he been fully fit?

Also yes he can pick a pass but he is not a natural player maker. We need to stop trying to make him one. Buy a play maker.

Let him do what he does best and just be a DM who can pick some passes.

I still don't think he is good enough for the Premier League
 

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