chiefdave
Well-Known Member
People singing the Doug King song
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
- Start date
Nick
Administrator
Hope they are trained in Waterboarding.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
There isn't really anything credible on a national level, that is my point. There have been a few inquiries, such as The Jay Report (which has 20 listed recommended actions, of which none have been implemented) - this largely looked at Rotherham and claimed: “The issue of race should be tackled as an absolute priority if it is a significant factor in the criminal activity of organised child sexual abuse”. It also demonstrated the authorities failed to act because they were scared to be called racist.
Since this time, it has become much clearer that this issue is not confined to Rotherham, but on a much wider scale. The police forces have submitted their reports, all 43 of them, which point out the issues from certain demographics and repeating patterns. The government has done nothing about it. After some pressure, they decided to launch 5 small scale investigations (which wasn't anywhere near enough anyway), but have since shelved these - and they tried to do this quietly. It looks like they might u-turn on that again following further pressure, but let's see.
Pakistanis up to four times more likely to be behind grooming
National police scheme shares data on ‘group-based’ child sexual abuse that includes ethnic background of perpetrators
www.telegraph.co.uk
Given that so many of the population (nearly 80%) think a national enquiry done properly is necessary, why aren't they doing it? Why aren't the recommendations from such things as The Jay Report being implemented? Given the constant pandering to certain communities (see again recently the sentencing guidelines, which thankfully got overturned for now), it seems to me like they are scared of the results of doing a wider investigation, and are also scared to then have to tackle it.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Its a think a fair point that when a Labour MP referred to grooming gangs from the Muslim community she was shut down.
I dont think public inquiries are a lot of use but I think the point he is making is that handing it to Councils is rather pointless. We only have to look at Roger "one of our own" Ellis for that
Drummers
mmttww
Well-Known Member
According to Jay themselves, part of the reason why is because people keep crowing for more inquiries. I think you'd do yourself a favour if you didn't lean so heavily on the Telegraph for your news btw. Billionaire tax exiles aren't gonna tend to have your interests at heart when giving editorial direction.
Victims want action, child abuse inquiry chair Alexis Jay says
"People need to step up to the mark" to tackle child abuse grooming gangs, Prof Alexis Jay tells BBC.
www.bbc.co.uk
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
According to Jay themselves, part of the reason why is because people keep crowing for more inquiries. I think you'd do yourself a favour if you didn't lean so heavily on the Telegraph for your news btw. Billionaire tax exiles aren't gonna tend to have your interests at heart when giving editorial direction.
Victims want action, child abuse inquiry chair Alexis Jay says
"People need to step up to the mark" to tackle child abuse grooming gangs, Prof Alexis Jay tells BBC.
You see, you have not really done yourself any favours there other than largely confirm what I am saying. You haven't tackled the issue whatsoever again, and your two comments only dodge basically all of it. One being the source, which contains factual information anyway - as we know, the left media as stated isn't really that keen on talking about these issues as much. The Jay Report recommendations (which you have glossed over) have not been tackled. It may be the case that the calls for inquiry have an impact in the roll out, but the fact of the matter is that neither are being done anyway. This also has nothing to do with the recommendations themselves.
Either implement them, or do a national inquiry. Perhaps they could even do the latter first and then use the findings of that along with the first report to help get solutions working. At the moment they are doing next to nothing.
The facts are all there to see.
- Pakistani men are hugely overrepresented in the crime statistics
- The government are not doing enough to tackle it, and are even covering it up
I don't really need to say anything else on this thread. If you cannot acknowledge that there is a problem, and that not enough is being done about it, then it doesn't matter what sources I post and how much evidence there is. You simply don't want to hear it, which unfortunately does make you an apologist for these kind of grooming gangs.
mmttww
Well-Known Member
You can get in the f*cking sea with that last comment, you patronising piece of sh*t. Your argument so far amounts to 'if you don't see things the way I do then you're an apologist for sex offenders'. D*ckhead.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
And there the mask slips...
Unfortunately this is very easy to explain. You, like many others, feel uncomfortable with the reality of what's going on. You don't want to discuss it, or tackle it.
The facts are the facts. I've made my points and provided evidence. Like I said, if you can't work with that then this debate has no way of going forward.
mmttww
Well-Known Member
You think discussing something involves branding people as apologists for sex offenders and paedophiles if they ask questions or point out inconsistencies with your argument. You're a joke.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Well, you are apologists.
Not one of you wants to talk about the overrepresentation of Pakistani muslims in sexual offences
Not one of you wants to have another inquiry
Not one of you has any solutions that you want to put forward
All you do is make comments about things that aren't relevant, and rather than trying to be practical, mud the waters as best you can, and then think you are winning by doing so. All it has done is expose you as people that are uncomfortable with the issue, and will do everything possibly in your power to deflect. It is extremely transparent, and in several pages now, not one of you has added anything credible to this whatsoever. This is why you are correctly branded as apologists. You prove more or less exactly what the reports say which have been done, have found. It is better not to risk being called racist, than to say or do anything about it. Anyone that does speak out is classified as a problem, and when the attempts to shut them up doesn't work, cry the victim and make out that you are outraged.
I am not the one that is pathetic. It is you. You are cowards, and it doesn't matter how many of you pile in - the same applies. Speaking of outrage, you are more bothered about my comments than you are of these crimes themselves, which just about comes round full circle.
mmttww
Well-Known Member
If you think you have credibility when you weaponise this subject to insult people it proves you couldn't argue your way out a paper bag. I've not heard you talk about the victims once which says everything.
Jay's response to the calls for a new inquiry talked first and foremost about how victims want previous recommendations put in place, not more politicising of the crimes that took place or more inquiries.
You went from talking about the subject to telling me I endorse sex offenders in the space of one post where I questioned the Telegraph's motives. You couldn't have summed yourself up better if you tried.
This. It's fucking pitiful.
Yet he's quite happy to leap to the defence of a serial sex offender.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Well, I can argue my way out of a paper bag because I have posted two pieces of evidence which have sent you to Narnia and back in order to try avoid talking about them. You have then since got very outraged because I didn't match your newspaper of choice, even though the thing we are talking about are facts from both police forces, Jay Report, and public polls. None of it is relevant, and you cannot get upset about being labelled an apologist when in several pages of conversation about them you have not sought to speak about the issue even one time.
Still absolutely nothing helpful in this reply either. No acknowledgement of the overrepresentation in the crime statistics, and no method for trying to find a solution.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
As others have said, you're impossible to debate with.
It's either your way, or you love grooming gangs. No in between.
mmttww
Well-Known Member
Insults don't constitute an argument.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
It isn't an insult. It is an appropriate label to use at this stage. If we weren't here several pages later arguing about things like choice of newspaper, then I might take a different viewpoint. The fact of the matter is, not a single person wants to talk about or acknowledge the overrepresentation of the crime statistics, and not a single person has any serious suggestions in how we deal with it.
mmttww
Well-Known Member
or some people are so poor at hiding their racism that it's impossible for them to discuss a subject without being sh*theads to anyone who doesn't see things the way they do.
mmttww
Well-Known Member
Weird that people don't want to talk to you calmly after you brand them an apologist for sex crimes against children. I'm done. Total waste of time and I'm annoyed at myself for bothering.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that was pretty predictable. Call someone a racist when they've called you out, and then close the door.
There is one thing I agree with you though. This is a waste of time, and it is a lovely day. Have a good one.
LarryGrayson
Member
lol
mmttww
Well-Known Member
as predictable as someone who can't debate for sh*t resorting to insults the minute someone challenges them.
You've talked over and over about the race of the scumbags that were investigated. You've not talked about victims. If you'd talked about both, fine. You didn't. To me, that speaks volumes. Sounds more like anger and bloodlust than empathy or wanting justice.
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
For reference, I understand it’s an emotive subject on multiple grounds. Will take the “over-representation of Pakistani men” at face value given I don’t have the data (nor, to be honest, can I be fussed to study it too deeply) - what is the policymaking solution? Are all Pakistani men to be rounded up and imprisoned because they may have a tendency for this shit? How generational do you go down that route?
Yes, I’m being churlish with that and taking it to an extreme (much like accusing people of being child grooming apologists) but practically there isn’t a solution as far as I can tell outside the current recommendations from the Jay report.
Yes, I’m being churlish with that and taking it to an extreme (much like accusing people of being child grooming apologists) but practically there isn’t a solution as far as I can tell outside the current recommendations from the Jay report.
In all the global madness and creaking financial system, some better news…
UK economy rebounds with 0.5% growth in February
www.thetimes.com
Ps just hoping this is based on accurate figures from ONS. Either way it’s positive news which won’t do us any harm. Shame bond markets are such a mess otherwise I reckon government borrowing costs would be improving a bit more on the back of this. Let’s hope sanity prevails in coming days
UK economy rebounds with 0.5% growth in February
UK economy rebounds with 0.5% growth in February
GDP expands faster than expected from a contraction of 0.1% in January
www.thetimes.com
Ps just hoping this is based on accurate figures from ONS. Either way it’s positive news which won’t do us any harm. Shame bond markets are such a mess otherwise I reckon government borrowing costs would be improving a bit more on the back of this. Let’s hope sanity prevails in coming days
Last edited:
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
In all the global madness and creaking financial system, some better news…
UK economy rebounds with 0.5% growth in February
UK economy rebounds with 0.5% growth in February
GDP expands faster than expected from a contraction of 0.1% in January
Ps just hoping this is based on accurate figures from ONS. Either way it’s positive news which won’t do us any harm. Shame bond markets are such a mess otherwise I reckon government borrowing costs would be improving a bit more on the back of this. Let’s hope sanity prevails in coming days
All just noise around 0% isn’t it? Up 0.5 we are all happy down 0.5 and we have to sacrifice a few disabled people to the market gods. All seems so arbitrary.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
That is the essence of it
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Also it’s a question of growth compared to what. Comparisons to last year matter less to me than comparisons to 2010 and before.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Seems to me you’ve decided that most Muslim men are nonces and unless people agree with that then they’re apologists or avoiding the issue.
They aren’t. Nobody wants child groomers free to continue their crimes.
To be fair 0.5% for the month would 6% pa if annualised. The problem at the moment is it’s the bond yields increasing cost of borrowing meaning less money to spend (unless you tax more….or print more/debase currency)….and these are being impacted by tariff/global mess
I agree though it doesn’t make too much sense making important decisions based on shit short term data from ONS. Still good news at face value though
Last edited:
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
There’s the nub which is why a confident government makes sure the recommendations are enacted and gets on with governing.
Any in power for 15 years telling those not in power anything should be met with a solid you did fuck all when in power we are doing are jobs. We will review the impact and get on with making things better
The actions of those in authority to the girls and families of the girls in question from what I’ve read and seen was awful. But then no one gives a shit about children in care anyway do they
A lot of the outrage at groups is because many peoples lives are shit and instead of taking responsibility for making them less shit they take the easy option and blame others for why their life is shit
Anyway
Those responsible need to be locked up
Those that facilitated it need to be locked up
Those that turned a blind eye need to be locked up
Anyone in power using their position for personal gain needs to be locked up too
No national inquiry should happen until we’ve put in place all the recommendations from the last one
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Well that’s my point really. Govt should be looking at 5-10 year trends and making decisions and budgets based on that, not chopping and changing with the wind. Though I accept a major event like Covid or Trump changes things.