ACL and the City Council announcement (16 Viewers)

rupert_bear

Well-Known Member
This may have been said already but can't be arsed to read through all these texts.

Got part of Councillor Mutton's interview on CWR this morning and he said the £14mill hadn't come from reserves didn't catch where he said it was actually from but did say CCC were credited with being a good housekeeper and therefore were able to borrow from somewhere or other at a much lower rate of interest than is paid to the Yorkshire Bank and the Council will receive a bit of income from interest on this lower rate loan taken out, seems to me to be a sensible option for all concerned.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Yes, makes sense. CCs have to be really careful how they dip into reserves.

This may have been said already but can't be arsed to read through all these texts.

Got part of Councillor Mutton's interview on CWR this morning and he said the £14mill hadn't come from reserves didn't catch where he said it was actually from but did say CCC were credited with being a good housekeeper and therefore were able to borrow from somewhere or other at a much lower rate of interest than is paid to the Yorkshire Bank and the Council will receive a bit of income from interest on this lower rate loan taken out, seems to me to be a sensible option for all concerned.
 

rupert_bear

Well-Known Member
Lets just say backed them into a tight corner ............. i doubt SISU will take this laying down
What is your gut feeling OSB on future re: SISU now. For what it is worth mine is i don't think they will be here come the close season, my concern though is what damage is done before that. I suspect the main players of last years buyout scenerio are still around, just hope their backers are.
 

ashbyjan

Well-Known Member
What is your gut feeling OSB on future re: SISU now. For what it is worth mine is i don't think they will be here come the close season, my concern though is what damage is done before that. I suspect the main players of last years buyout scenerio are still around, just hope their backers are.

My feeling for what its worth (not a Trust view but my personal view) is assuming Joy doesn't decide to act spitefully and irrationally and liquidate then they will hang on for another couple of months to see if promotion is likely - if its on then they might give it a go if it looks unlikely then they will be open to offers.

Note: council have borrowed from a fund called the Public Works Loan Board which allows councils to borrow at well below normal commercial rates
 

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
My feeling for what its worth (not a Trust view but my personal view) is assuming Joy doesn't decide to act spitefully and irrationally and liquidate then they will hang on for another couple of months to see if promotion is likely - if its on then they might give it a go if it looks unlikely then they will be open to offers.

Note: council have borrowed from a fund called the Public Works Loan Board which allows councils to borrow at well below normal commercial rates

sisu have never looked to sell before,cant see it msyelf
 

ashbyjan

Well-Known Member
sisu have never looked to sell before,cant see it msyelf

Will they get arena and be able to sell it? NO
Will they invest enough to get us to land of milk and honey (Premiership) NO ) Nor should we expect them to - clubs have to operate within their means)
Are they still losing £250k every week YES
How long do you think SISU will continue writing cheques every month to cover the loses - indefinately? NO
The only option that is open to them to recover at least a part of their investment is to sell.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
What is your gut feeling OSB on future re: SISU now. For what it is worth mine is i don't think they will be here come the close season, my concern though is what damage is done before that. I suspect the main players of last years buyout scenerio are still around, just hope their backers are.

I think it is difficult to tell which way they will jump

- right now as another poster put I would guess they are looking at the legals of what has gone on to see if they can get it set aside ..... I dont think that will work
- A new lower set rent and a scheduled debt will actually make the club more saleable so its in their interest to negotiate
- The problem they will have negotiating is that ACL wont trust them not to accept the rent then default again
- Hedge funds are rarely in something for the long haul so they are looking for an out that maximises their return (that does not mean getting 40m back they will have to accept much less)
- MR has been a success so far so if that continues they can sell on the potential of the team this year or its potential next year
- if their intention was to get hold of the site and now they cant do that why would they put more money into the club?
- Any new owner will not come from old contacts, SISU dont trust them but also I am not sure ACL and their stakeholders will either. No track record of delivering and the finance controls are far improved over what went on before, not sure could be trusted not to go back to the old ways. Might be a bit unfair but I am inclined to agree with that.

So in short I think SISU will be gone in the next 18 months, accepting a deal of some now more if success later.

Assuming Joy doesnt stamp her feet and say to hell with it ...... dont think she will because some money is better than no money.
 
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torchomatic

Well-Known Member
I keep reading people saying that SISU should go now, etc. I also keep reading that SISU should sell the club to someone else. I never actually read who this new owner would be. We can safely assume that despite all the "me big City fan" rhetoric, Hoffman has disappeared again.

And who on earth would buy a football club with a small fan base, a stadium which costs a fortune to play in and no way to tap into the revenue streams on a match day? The Council have rescued ACL yes, but also ensured that there is very little likelihood of them selling to a new owner. With what has just happened I can't see how Coventry City FC is going to attract any investor.
 

ashbyjan

Well-Known Member
I keep reading people saying that SISU should go now, etc. I also keep reading that SISU should sell the club to someone else. I never actually read who this new owner would be. We can safely assume that despite all the "me big City fan" rhetoric, Hoffman has disappeared again.

And who on earth would buy a football club with a small fan base, a stadium which costs a fortune to play in and no way to tap into the revenue streams on a match day? The Council have rescued ACL yes, but also ensured that there is very little likelihood of them selling to a new owner. With what has just happened I can't see how Coventry City FC is going to attract any investor.

The current deal from ACL is a much reduced rent and with new finances in place maybe sweetened a little further still and a 50% share of the matchday profits. A new owner coming in will be able to buy the charity's 50% share of ACL, form a real partnership with council to develop leisure land, an option that SISU have basically lost due to their actions so it could still be an interesting proposition to the right investor.

Cannot see it happening immediately but maybe in the next few months we will see some changes - hopefully for the good but being Cov................
 

Big_Ben

Active Member
Using the previously stated reasoning that the council will get a better return on its investment for the taxpayer from the council reserves than it would get in interest from the banks, perhaps ACL should borrow a bit more from the council and make SISU an offer to buy CCFC, putting the stadium and the team all under the same ownership again.
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
And who on earth would buy a football club with a small fan base, a stadium which costs a fortune to play in and no way to tap into the revenue streams on a match day? The Council have rescued ACL yes, but also ensured that there is very little likelihood of them selling to a new owner. With what has just happened I can't see how Coventry City FC is going to attract any investor.

The above could be renegotiated as a condition of a new owner taking control with a longer-term, more clear, honest and transparent vision. Exactly what SISU should of done when their Due Diligence should have shown them what a mess the finances of the club were, and why it needed restructuring from the word go.

What was it that Alki David allegedly called the club? A 'basket case', If true, never a wiser word(s) spoken
 

skyblueman

New Member
I think it is difficult to tell which way they will jump

- right now as another poster put I would guess they are looking at the legals of what has gone on to see if they can get it set aside ..... I dont think that will work
- A new lower set rent and a scheduled debt will actually make the club more saleable so its in their interest to negotiate
- The problem they will have negotiating is that ACL wont trust them not to accept the rent then default again
- Hedge funds are rarely in something for the long haul so they are looking for an out that maximises their return (that does not mean getting 40m back they will have to accept much less)
- MR has been a success so far so if that continues they can sell on the potential of the team this year or its potential next year
- if their intention was to get hold of the site and now they cant do that why would they put more money into the club?
- Any new owner will not come from old contacts, SISU dont trust them but also I am not sure ACL and their stakeholders will either. No track record of delivering and the finance controls are far improved over what went on before, not sure could be trusted not to go back to the old ways. Might be a bit unfair but I am inclined to agree with that.

So in short I think SISU will be gone in the next 18 months, accepting a deal of some now more if success later.

Assuming Joy doesnt stamp her feet and say to hell with it ...... dont think she will because some money is better than no money.

SISU have failed in spectacular fashion and they will have to conceed defeat soon - someone somewhere has been waiting on this
 

rupert_bear

Well-Known Member
Mr Hoffman keeping his head down and being very quiet doesn't mean he has dissappeared and it wasn't him looking to invest or buy anyway, he was just introducing someone who might. As a layman looking in it tells me a lot of groundwork has gone into this, legal eagles will have fine tooth combed it again and again and this is part one of a grand plan IMO.Remember it is only 12 months since the last attempt to buy out SISU failed, nothing in business time. Just touching on Mr Hoffman again one thing he hasn't done is hogged the press infact very little has been said by him, so the "me big city fan" description is a bit bizzare. He is a fan, and one who goes to most games home and away and i am certain would only act in the clubs best interest if at all. Many on here say "if only i won the 100mill" on the Euro lottery what i would do for my club is... he'll be no different
 
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torchomatic

Well-Known Member
No he's not the main investor, true. It'll be yet another set of faceless people we will never know. It makes no difference.

Mr Hoffman keeping his head down and being very quiet doesn't mean he has dissappeared and it wasn't him looking to invest or buy anyway, he was just introducing someone who might. As a layman looking in it tells me a lot of groundwork has gone into this, legal eagles will have fine tooth combed it again and again and this is part one of a grand plan IMO.Remember it is only 12 months since the last attempt to buy out SISU failed, nothing in business time. Just touching on Mr Hoffman again one thing he hasn't done is hogged the press infact very little has been said by him, so the "me big city fan" description is a bit bizzare. He is a fan, and one who goes to most games home and away and i am certain would only act in the clubs best interest if at all. Many on here say "if only i won the 100mill" on the Euro lottery what i would do for my club is... he'll be no different
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
@torchy, none of us know that, the potential owners may become known if a bid is signed sealed & delivered, meanwhile I can understand them keeping well out of the public gaze.
 

dadgad

Well-Known Member
Sisu have been and always will be bad news for the club and therefore for the city.
We still do not really know who they are.
They have bungled over and over because they have never cottoned onto the simple fact that running a football club is an entirely parochial and tribal affair and, as such, normal business practices are redundant. The speculate to accumulate concept is all about heart over head in football.
Quite why they got involved in the first place (after due diligence) is frankly mystifying.
They should cut and run and the sooner the better unless, of course, they throw whatever financial clout they have left behind the team in a bid to claw back some of the lost revenue from a dwindling fanbase.
It does seem that some of the lessons of the last five years have been learnt - this year they do seem to have finally responded - but most of the damage has already been done and most of it entirely of their own making.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
I think we do. After all weren't the last lot of talks scuppered because KD mentioned who one of them was? People are desperately hanging their hat on GH purely and simply because he happens to support CCFC. His investors aren't going to be bothered who he supports as long as he makes them some money. Be careful what you wish for.

@torchy, none of us know that, the potential owners may become known if a bid is signed sealed & delivered, meanwhile I can understand them keeping well out of the public gaze.
 
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grego_gee

New Member
Unbiased and informative or unctuous progaganda?

Sorry I apologise in advance for this. I smell a rat and I have to have a go at exposing him! my comments in red

"It has been difficult keeping quiet, having information and not being able to share it. (I'm sure he really has sky blue blood?)

We (who? Higgs or ACL?) have been working hard to do what any business (IF he says THEY ARE A BUSINESS! he must be speaking for ACL I thought he was speaking for the charity? ) should do when faced with such a serious challenge as ACL has faced with Sisu’s rent strike. (so it was a serious threat to your "already strong" business then )
I am sure that many of you will have heard the news that Coventry City Council has made an agreement with Yorkshire Bank for the Council to pay off the debt Arena Coventry Limited previously owed to the Bank. (very nice of them! why would they do that?)
The Council will now make a loan to ACL of £14.4m, which will make repayments to the Council at an interest rate much more affordable for ACL as a business. (so it's a "cheap" loan!)

You will have other questions about how much, how long, what rate of interest etc, at the moment I am unable to answer as they remain under commercial confidentiality. (Oh dear! maybe that embarrasses you?)
The agreement gives ACL’s already strong business even more stability. (If it was already strong why did you need a cheap loan? Still, if you keep telling us we might believe you!)
It means that the Board of Directors can plan for the long term with more confidence than ever (read stay afloat! and keep their fat-cat jobs!)
The people of Coventry will also benefit as the interest on the repayments made by ACL will be available to the Council to spend on goods and services. (If it's a "cheap" loan the council are getting less than if the money was invested elsewhere! and in nearly the same breath you ask us to ignor comparisons of other stadium rents!)

This is a decisive move by the Council to secure the long-term future of the Ricoh Arena as an asset for the City of Coventry (FALSE! it doesn't secure the ARENA - this just secures ACL's business)
and a decision which ought to be welcomed and applauded by everyone posting on this forum. (cringe! give me a break!)

I am already receiving calls and messages asking me what this means with regard to the situation with Coventry City Football Club. (read I just want to tell you my viewpoint)
The short answer is that nothing has changed. CCFC, under the ownership of Joy Seppala and her Sisu staff including Tim Fisher, has a legal obligation to pay its stadium rent. (If you keep pushing SISU will pay the debt and walk out - they can play at Rushden or the butts! This is horse-manure! a rental agreement is only satisfactory when both landlord and tenant are content. You are demanding a level of rent that takes money away from the club especially under FFP and it is not sustainable. It has been unsustainable since the drop from the Championship and any negotiation should be effective from then. You are demanding that the tenant pays for the time you withheld agreement to an inevitable change.)

The Board of ACL has already issued a Statutory Demand for payment, the deadline for which has long since passed, and is now looking at its legal options. These legal options include petitioning the courts to grant an order to wind up CCFC and starting off the process of placing the Club into compulsory liquidation. (go on Dare you! is that what the councils loan is all about? so they are giving you the money to put the club into admin. good move! I'm not sure that is in the best interests of the citizens)

Nobody wants this to be the outcome, but the clock is ticking and now is the time when Joy Seppala and her colleagues need finally to take responsibility for their actions, pay the rent which is lawfully owed, and come to the table with the Board of ACL to present a realistic business and financing plan which will safeguard the future of CCFC. (It really depends how you look at it - yes its legally owed but its not justifiable and its owed from a period that you took to agree a reduction that you already acknowledge should be made to an extent to be agreed)

And why wouldn’t they want to do this? there is an answer to this - they see the activity of running the arena as a function that they could fulfil themselves as part of their business and to some benefit of the football club!
The City Council has just presented them with an opportunity to build a better business relationship with an outstanding business which is in an enviable and sustainable financial position. The council have chosen their horse and put their money there - the provision of (the first) loan demonstrates that it wasn't financially stable at all. There is a view that ACL are totally superfluous and do no good to man nor beast!
Everyone at ACL is absolutely committed to seeing the Sky Blues play at the Ricoh Arena for many years to come. (read holding on to their fat-cat jobs!)


My appeal to Sisu is therefore a simple one; please come and have a sensible conversation.
(perhaps SISU would say the same?)
And please stop trying to blame all the Club’s financial problems on the stadium rent, while drawing misleading and inaccurate comparisons between the rent paid by CCFC and that paid by other Football League One clubs, none of whom enjoy the benefits of a facility comparable to the Ricoh Arena. Are you being serous? do you think they are enjoying it? They can't get into it except on match days and feel equally "at home" on away grounds! Do they really want to pay extra to play in a cavernous half-empty arena with no atmosphere?

From the Higgs Charity’s perspective as a shareholder, we are completely in support of the Council’s move today. (of course you are - it bails you out!)
I am sure there will be speculation also about the Charity’s intentions in relation to holding on to its stake holding in ACL. (hmmmmmm, are you?)
Some of you may even feel that this would be a sensible time for Sisu to make a realistic offer to assume the Charity’s share.(yes, and is your view that would be based on a premiership rent?)

Again our position is unchanged. (maybe you could be more flexible?)
The trustees are proud to be part of ACL and we’re committed to the Arena for as long as it takes. (so long as our salaries get paid!)
We won’t be bullied or harassed by anyone trying to take our share in the business for less than its true value. (that being a premiership value?)
But, if any third party makes a sensible and realistic offer, then we will of course give it the consideration it merits. (I'll offer £10.00 and a season ticket)

Once again I apologise for the length of this update. (not some sort of smokescreen then?)
I would of course have preferred to share this sooner but I am bound by the obligations of the law and of confidentiality on this hugely sensitive matter. (but non-the-less you seem to have managed to say quite a lot - that you wanted to!)
As ever, I am happy to answer questions where I am able to do so.(still tied up are you?)"

Do we really need ACL?
:pimp::eek:.....
 

The Penguin

Well-Known Member
So with what justification are Sisu not paying for using the facilities at the Alan Higgs centre?

Anyone care to defend them on that point?

Now being reported on Twitter that the rent for the Higgs Centre has been paid.

Allegedly, the club "lost" the contract and didn't know how much to pay.

.....

There are few words to describe the ridiculousness of that notion.
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
Now being reported on Twitter that the rent for the Higgs Centre has been paid.

Allegedly, the club "lost" the contract and didn't know how much to pay.

.....

There are few words to describe the ridiculousness of that notion.

Return salvo in PR war after SISU were exposed. Lost the contract, my arse! More proof of incompedence builds up.
 
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ashbyjan

Well-Known Member
Who on Twitter is saying this about losing the contract? Club or who?
Rent has been paid (PKH confirmed this to Trust just now) but the lost contract story just beggars belief
 

cloughie

Well-Known Member
Sorry I apologise in advance for this. I smell a rat and I have to have a go at exposing him! my comments in red

"It has been difficult keeping quiet, having information and not being able to share it. (I'm sure he really has sky blue blood?)

We (who? Higgs or ACL?) have been working hard to do what any business (IF he says THEY ARE A BUSINESS! he must be speaking for ACL I thought he was speaking for the charity? ) should do when faced with such a serious challenge as ACL has faced with Sisu’s rent strike. (so it was a serious threat to your "already strong" business then )
I am sure that many of you will have heard the news that Coventry City Council has made an agreement with Yorkshire Bank for the Council to pay off the debt Arena Coventry Limited previously owed to the Bank. (very nice of them! why would they do that?)
The Council will now make a loan to ACL of £14.4m, which will make repayments to the Council at an interest rate much more affordable for ACL as a business. (so it's a "cheap" loan!)

You will have other questions about how much, how long, what rate of interest etc, at the moment I am unable to answer as they remain under commercial confidentiality. (Oh dear! maybe that embarrasses you?)
The agreement gives ACL’s already strong business even more stability. (If it was already strong why did you need a cheap loan? Still, if you keep telling us we might believe you!)
It means that the Board of Directors can plan for the long term with more confidence than ever (read stay afloat! and keep their fat-cat jobs!)
The people of Coventry will also benefit as the interest on the repayments made by ACL will be available to the Council to spend on goods and services. (If it's a "cheap" loan the council are getting less than if the money was invested elsewhere! and in nearly the same breath you ask us to ignor comparisons of other stadium rents!)

This is a decisive move by the Council to secure the long-term future of the Ricoh Arena as an asset for the City of Coventry (FALSE! it doesn't secure the ARENA - this just secures ACL's business)
and a decision which ought to be welcomed and applauded by everyone posting on this forum. (cringe! give me a break!)

I am already receiving calls and messages asking me what this means with regard to the situation with Coventry City Football Club. (read I just want to tell you my viewpoint)
The short answer is that nothing has changed. CCFC, under the ownership of Joy Seppala and her Sisu staff including Tim Fisher, has a legal obligation to pay its stadium rent. (If you keep pushing SISU will pay the debt and walk out - they can play at Rushden or the butts! This is horse-manure! a rental agreement is only satisfactory when both landlord and tenant are content. You are demanding a level of rent that takes money away from the club especially under FFP and it is not sustainable. It has been unsustainable since the drop from the Championship and any negotiation should be effective from then. You are demanding that the tenant pays for the time you withheld agreement to an inevitable change.)

The Board of ACL has already issued a Statutory Demand for payment, the deadline for which has long since passed, and is now looking at its legal options. These legal options include petitioning the courts to grant an order to wind up CCFC and starting off the process of placing the Club into compulsory liquidation. (go on Dare you! is that what the councils loan is all about? so they are giving you the money to put the club into admin. good move! I'm not sure that is in the best interests of the citizens)

Nobody wants this to be the outcome, but the clock is ticking and now is the time when Joy Seppala and her colleagues need finally to take responsibility for their actions, pay the rent which is lawfully owed, and come to the table with the Board of ACL to present a realistic business and financing plan which will safeguard the future of CCFC. (It really depends how you look at it - yes its legally owed but its not justifiable and its owed from a period that you took to agree a reduction that you already acknowledge should be made to an extent to be agreed)

And why wouldn’t they want to do this? there is an answer to this - they see the activity of running the arena as a function that they could fulfil themselves as part of their business and to some benefit of the football club!
The City Council has just presented them with an opportunity to build a better business relationship with an outstanding business which is in an enviable and sustainable financial position. The council have chosen their horse and put their money there - the provision of (the first) loan demonstrates that it wasn't financially stable at all. There is a view that ACL are totally superfluous and do no good to man nor beast!
Everyone at ACL is absolutely committed to seeing the Sky Blues play at the Ricoh Arena for many years to come. (read holding on to their fat-cat jobs!)

My appeal to Sisu is therefore a simple one; please come and have a sensible conversation.
(perhaps SISU would say the same?)
And please stop trying to blame all the Club’s financial problems on the stadium rent, while drawing misleading and inaccurate comparisons between the rent paid by CCFC and that paid by other Football League One clubs, none of whom enjoy the benefits of a facility comparable to the Ricoh Arena. Are you being serous? do you think they are enjoying it? They can't get into it except on match days and feel equally "at home" on away grounds! Do they really want to pay extra to play in a cavernous half-empty arena with no atmosphere?

From the Higgs Charity’s perspective as a shareholder, we are completely in support of the Council’s move today. (of course you are - it bails you out!)
I am sure there will be speculation also about the Charity’s intentions in relation to holding on to its stake holding in ACL. (hmmmmmm, are you?)
Some of you may even feel that this would be a sensible time for Sisu to make a realistic offer to assume the Charity’s share.(yes, and is your view that would be based on a premiership rent?)

Again our position is unchanged. (maybe you could be more flexible?)
The trustees are proud to be part of ACL and we’re committed to the Arena for as long as it takes. (so long as our salaries get paid!)
We won’t be bullied or harassed by anyone trying to take our share in the business for less than its true value. (that being a premiership value?)
But, if any third party makes a sensible and realistic offer, then we will of course give it the consideration it merits. (I'll offer £10.00 and a season ticket)

Once again I apologise for the length of this update. (not some sort of smokescreen then?)
I would of course have preferred to share this sooner but I am bound by the obligations of the law and of confidentiality on this hugely sensitive matter. (but non-the-less you seem to have managed to say quite a lot - that you wanted to!)
As ever, I am happy to answer questions where I am able to do so.(still tied up are you?)"

Do we really need ACL?
:pimp::eek:.....

you sound like Tim Fisher who has just had his arse slapped....bang goes the bonus then.

A bitter pill to swallow was it?
 

Danceswithhorses

Well-Known Member
grego_gee....wow that's some ultra-paranoid conspiracy stuff going on in your head...have you stopped taking your medication again ?
 

AFCCOVENTRY

Well-Known Member
With ACL now secure and lower repayments they will be able offer a lower rent on the £400k offered.

My guess is an agreement at £250k-300k region which will be more than fair and access to revenues.
 

grego_gee

New Member
Also how come the council bail-out is over £14m when there is only £1.1m claimed missing from the rent pot?.... and match costs being paid has reduced that?
it doesn't add up!
:pimp:
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
Also how come the council bail-out is over £14m when there is only £1.1m claimed missing from the rent pot?.... and match costs being paid has reduced that?
it doesn't add up!
:pimp:

It's not a bail out. It's to release ACL from a long-term (mortgage) loan from the Yorkshire Bank. The original loan was circa. £20m, of which less than £15m now remains. All that happens now is that the repayments and interest are pad to the council, and not the bank. The council borrows the money at a very cheap rate, charges ACL more and therefore makes money. But this value is still less than the Yorkshire Bank, so it suits ACL too.

The £1m+ 'missing' from the unpaid rent is influencing cashflow and therefore ACL's ability to meet the loan to the Yorkshire. However, the totality of the loan is - of course - over several years, and the rent non-payment liability only something from the last 12 months
 

Danceswithhorses

Well-Known Member
Also how come the council bail-out is over £14m when there is only £1.1m claimed missing from the rent pot?.... and match costs being paid has reduced that?
it doesn't add up!
:pimp:
£14m pays off the Yorkshire Bank mortgage which ACL used to finance the purchase of the 50year lease on the Ricoh from Cov city council
 

blueflint

Well-Known Member
council are evil

who cares if ricoh is state of the art,we only want the football part of it so lower the damn rent

bad news.
are you in the real world here m8 the council are not evil and other people want the ricoh for concerts etc its not just for football and never was
 

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