Mark Labovitch re administration (13 Viewers)

[theferret]

Understanding is
1. The naming rights deal was very much front loaded and whilst significant is not crucial to ACL survival.
2. Ricoh have no intention of pulling out as they are happy with the exposure their brand gets amongst their target market ie businesses that attend exhibitions, conferences etc, they like the fact that there is a plethora of road signs with their name on, not the usual football symbol, how much positive coverage have they received from association with a third tier football club? Got quite a lot of mentions everytime the dispute gets in the news, probably more mentions than directly because of the football!

Jan, seriously RICOH have every intention of pulling out.

Almost all the exposure they get is via the football club. Target market has nothing to do with it; it is simply about name/brand awareness, and for that it is the exposure they get via the football club that is the most important aspect of the deal. 'Positive' coverage is also irrelevant, it is simply about getting the name out there. Ricoh's maket share of the UK copier market has grown substantially in the last 10 years and the naming rights deal has had a good deal to do with that.

Stop and think for one minute of all the exposure it gets in newspaper articles, match reports, on TV news bulletins, in football related publications such as matchday programmes, on internet sites and message boards (not just ours but amongst fans of all clubs that have visited us), on Sky Sports, on radio stations such as TalkSport and Five Live, on all those local stations that cover their teams when they play at 'The Ricoh', in general conversations amongst football supporters and so on and so on. Just think about how many times the words "The Ricoh Arena" are spoken on television and radio throughout the course of a year in reference to our football club or in relation to other clubs who have played a fixture there. Then think about all the times it is mentioned on TV and radio in relation to conferences, business meeting and exhibitions?

 

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[Bluegloucester]

The reason ACL may feel are confident that a plan exists without the club are becuase of the less demanding and more fragile repayments back to CCC then perhaps Yorkshire Bank's loan agreement. Although I am sure that any future that involved CCFC would benefit ACL greatly.

Agreed there will be sponsorship always at the Arena, but I read a rumour somewhere that Ricoh UK Ltd would immeadiately pull out of sponsoring the Arena if CCFC were to leave as an example, but this is a pure rumour.

Yes the LG is a perfect example and unfortunately the LG will always attract a higher standard of events compared to the Ricoh if CCFC were to leave especially after the currently debacle as this Limelight cannot be good for ACL as well as CCFC, looking at past events the biggest names to grace both Arena's..

LG
Rhianna, Cheryl Cole, Spice Girls, Jay Z, Nicky Minaj, One Direction, etc. (Superstars)

Ricoh
Coldplay, Bruce Springstein, James Morrison

This would also have an affect on sponsoring while ACL can't attract to bring in huge names (I know everything isn't based on concerts, but it's an example I am using) the Arena would doom to fail, but if CCFC were to continue using the Arena and get promoted back to Championship and then in the future to the Preimer League, I would bet that bigger names attend the Arena for Concerts and Events.

Are you forgetting Oasis and Take That? Both were sellout events that the LG could not put on due to capacity.

 

[Sky Blues]

Jan, seriously RICOH have every intention of pulling out.

Almost all the exposure they get is via the football club. Target market has nothing to do with it; it is simply about name/brand awareness, and for that it is the exposure they get via the football club that is the most important aspect of the deal. 'Positive' coverage is also irrelevant, it is simply about getting the name out there. Ricoh's maket share of the UK copier market has grown substantially in the last 10 years and the naming rights deal has had a good deal to do with that.

Stop and think for one minute of all the exposure it gets in newspaper articles, match reports, on TV news bulletins, in football related publications such as matchday programmes, on internet sites and message boards (not just ours but amongst fans of all clubs that have visited us), on Sky Sports, on radio stations such as TalkSport and Five Live, on all those local stations that cover their teams when they play at 'The Ricoh', in general conversations amongst football supporters and so on and so on. Just think about how many times the words "The Ricoh Arena" are spoken on television and radio throughout the course of a year in reference to our football club or in relation to other clubs who have played a fixture there. Then think about all the times it is mentioned on TV and radio in relation to conferences, business meeting and exhibitions?

Didn't PWKH tell us the other week that Ricoh would not pull out?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Are you forgetting Oasis and Take That? Both were sellout events that the LG could not put on due to capacity.

No I am not fogettng those two events but Take That and Oasis are hardly as big as the names I quoted at the LG who will bring in more revenue..

 

[Pete in Portugal]

The timing of admin is not SISU's to decide - the moment a company is trading insolvently which CCFC Ltd is, as no negotiations are taking place, the Directors are personally liable as they would be deemed to be knowingly running an insolvent company.

Yes Ashbyjan - that's a correct interpretation of the legal position SISU are in, BUT I think you will find that in real world, things are not quite so clear cut. I practice, many businesses continue to trade while 'technically' insolvent - for example many new start-ups are technically insolvent until they commence significant trading. It's often a very fine judgement and nowhere near as obvious as you suggest.

The timing of making a decision to declare insolvency depends mostly on whether the directors can reasonably believe they can honour the debts of their Company going forwards. So in practice the CCFC board do have control over the timing, or at least to some degree. However, if they receive advice from their lawyers that they are trading insolvently and without any reasonable prospect of a recovery, then if they ignore that advice, the directors would almost certainly be held to be personally liable.

The situation with CCFC appears to be that the board have received legal advice that they are sailing close to the wind on insolvency and that time is running out. I say this 'appears' to be the situation, because with all the posturing going on, it's hard to know what the reality is. Having said that, we know that ACL have effectively 'sequestrated' the main CCFC income streams to pay the rent arrears. It therefore seems likely that this will have brought them close to insolvency and that they will have sought legal advice. No firm of lawyers is going to advise them to continue trading for very long in that situation, otherwise they could be held liable for giving wrong advice.

 

[Bluegloucester]

No I am not fogettng those two events but Take That and Oasis are hardly as big as the names I quoted at the LG who will bring in more revenue..

LG Arena holds 14k, Ricoh 40k+ for concerts. You are not comparing like for like. The reason the acts play the LG is because they would not fill the Ricoh.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

LG Arena holds 14k, Ricoh 40k+ for concerts. You are not comparing like for like. The reason the acts play the LG is because they would not fill the Ricoh.

As you have eluded too in a prevous post, Take That and Oasis filled the Ricoh, I am sure 100% that the likes of Rhianna and Jay Z would sell the Ricoh out.. The reason they would have chose to play there events at the LG over the Ricoh is down to a couple of things, Location, Prestige, Revenue Streams, something they though the Ricoh is not adequate for.

 

[skybluesam66]

Didn't PWKH tell us the other week that Ricoh would not pull out?

i also think we need to be careful re PWKH - it is clear he also has his own agenda

 

[theferret]

As you have eluded too in a prevous concert Take That and Oasis filled the Ricoh, I am sure 100% that the likes of Rhianna and Jay Z would sell the Ricoh out.. The reason they would have chose to play there events at the LG over the Ricoh is down to a couple of things, Location, Prestige, Revenue Streams, something they though the Ricoh is not adequate for.

Not true. Has nothing to do with prestige, and everything to do with logistics and timing. Open air concerts are no good in Britain in the winter - so you have a very limited window of opportunity with summer gigs. Many big international stars tend to tour Europe in the winter so they will use indoor venues. They also tend to do more venues/dates on arena tours (ie some acts prefer to do lots of gigs to smaller audiences rather than 4 or 5 stadium dates).

Stadium concert tours are very expensive to put on and you have to pretty much guarantee to sell out the venues to make a decent return. Very few acts will do a UK stadium tour in the summer, there might only be 4 or 5 acts doing stadium tours in any given year, and the Ricoh tends to get the best of them. Muse and Springsteen are the big tours this year, and the Ricoh has both.

But that's the point, 2 or 3 stadium gigs a year is about the most you are ever going to get, and the indoor venue cannot compete with the LG or NIA, or even the Nottingham Ice Centre, and so will only ever be a very occasional concert venue. All this begs the question, what else can the stadium be used for?

 

[Bluegloucester]

As you have eluded too in a prevous post, Take That and Oasis filled the Ricoh, I am sure 100% that the likes of Rhianna and Jay Z would sell the Ricoh out.. The reason they would have chose to play there events at the LG over the Ricoh is down to a couple of things, Location, Prestige, Revenue Streams, something they though the Ricoh is not adequate for.

I work in the entertainment industry, both Rihanna and Jay Z would prefer to play at the Ricoh, it was already booked.

Take That are one of the highest grossing live acts worldwide. They broke box office records at Wembley in 2011, hardly a small act.

 

[ashbyjan]

Whilst PWKH may have his own agenda (as everyone in this putrid dispute has) he is the Trustee and Clerk of a registered charity and bound by the rules of the Charity Commission. For him to be lying would have serious professional consequences for him and the charity.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

I have always believed acl and sisu are both best served by having a successful ccfc so sense would prevail and there would be a compromise, however late in the day. For the first time, and I hope I am completely wrong on this, I am beginning to worry that there won't be a settlement.
To focus on facts not opinion, what do we know? The acl accounts have been published and (unless they are in some way incorrect) showed that for the first time acl made a profit net of ccfc rent - I have previously wondered why acl hadn't made a profit net of ccfc rent but one outcome of the curent situation seems to be that acl have stepped up their game both on the revenue side and securing the shift in mortgage from yorkshire bank to the council. There is clearly a lot of personal animosity between key individuals. acl show no sign of backing down and appear to be hardening their stance. There is no evidence of sisu having a plan B. If the two sides wanted to reach a settlement they could have done so ages ago. Even now thery could agree to binding arbitration but neither side seems to be willing to so that. As I say, I always thought a compromise would be reached but the situation that has now been reached is deeply worrying.

 

[mattylad]

Both sides are as bad as each other - ACL believe they can survive without CCFC but would be happy for them to stay but on their terms CCFC believe they can have all the revenue etc and if not then move away, build a new stadium and ground share for 3 years. ACL dont want to work with SISU and SISU dont want to work with ACL - hardly the recipe for a harmonious future.

It all so pathetic and needs sorting - its become too personal, too many egos and too much animosity - needs a third party to come in and make them all see sense.

I said on here six months ago that it had got so bad they couldn't even pass each other in a Ricoh corridor without a squabble breaking out. :slap:

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Not true. Has nothing to do with prestige, and everything to do with logistics and timing. Open air concerts are no good in Britain in the winter - so you have a very limited window of opportunity with summer gigs. Many big international stars tend to tour Europe in the winter so they will use indoor venues. They also tend to do more venues/dates on arena tours (ie some acts prefer to do lots of gigs to smaller audiences rather than 4 or 5 stadium dates).

Stadium concert tours are very expensive to put on and you have to pretty much guarantee to sell out the venues to make a decent return. Very few acts will do a UK stadium tour in the summer, there might only be 4 or 5 acts doing stadium tours in any given year, and the Ricoh tends to get the best of them. Muse and Springsteen are the big tours this year, and the Ricoh has both.

But that's the point, 2 or 3 stadium gigs a year is about the most you are ever going to get, and the indoor venue cannot compete with the LG or NIA, or even the Nottingham Ice Centre, and so will only ever be a very occasional concert venue. All this begs the question, what else can the stadium be used for?

Maybe Bernie Ecclestone will have a grand idea to turn the Ricoh and the surronding area into an F1 track

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Fair enough but as the Kind Gentleman Ferret has eluded too, the LG is making more money on concerts than the Ricoh and that was the reason I eluded into the LG in the first place if CCFC were to leave the Arena and seek a new home I am not sure its viable for ACL to have a sustainable business model, despite there claims.

 

[coundonskyblue]

Current business model would struggle without ccfc, however acl has proven itself to be a brilliantly adaptable business so I believe they could adapt to a life without ccfc.

 

[sky blue john]

Jan, seriously RICOH have every intention of pulling out.

Almost all the exposure they get is via the football club. Target market has nothing to do with it; it is simply about name/brand awareness, and for that it is the exposure they get via the football club that is the most important aspect of the deal. 'Positive' coverage is also irrelevant, it is simply about getting the name out there. Ricoh's maket share of the UK copier market has grown substantially in the last 10 years and the naming rights deal has had a good deal to do with that.

Stop and think for one minute of all the exposure it gets in newspaper articles, match reports, on TV news bulletins, in football related publications such as matchday programmes, on internet sites and message boards (not just ours but amongst fans of all clubs that have visited us), on Sky Sports, on radio stations such as TalkSport and Five Live, on all those local stations that cover their teams when they play at 'The Ricoh', in general conversations amongst football supporters and so on and so on. Just think about how many times the words "The Ricoh Arena" are spoken on television and radio throughout the course of a year in reference to our football club or in relation to other clubs who have played a fixture there. Then think about all the times it is mentioned on TV and radio in relation to conferences, business meeting and exhibitions?

Yes they get advertising through being mentioned with the football club which Jan has pointed out especially with the turmoil going on.
But your talking out your of your arse in terms of the Ricoh pulling out if the club isn't there !!
How many supporters that come through the turnstiles have personally bought a Ricoh product ? Not many i should imagine !!
How many potential Ricoh customers exhibit and visit the Ricoh " Thousands " this is Ricoh's target market Not Tom, Dick or Harry that comes to watch football or see's it on the TV or even hears the name mentioned on the radio !!!

 

[MichaelCCFC]

Fair enough but as the Kind Gentleman Ferret has eluded too, the LG is making more money on concerts than the Ricoh and that was the reason I eluded into the LG in the first place if CCFC were to leave the Arena and seek a new home I am not sure its viable for ACL to have a sustainable business model, despite there claims.

I alwaysthought the stadium was dependent on ccfc both for direct income (rent) andwider 'brand recognition'. But the evidence e.g. their accounts seems to be stacking up that ACLhave got their act together, can survive without ccfc. What took me abacklooking at the Ricoh company website is they refer to the stadium as being inBrum not Cov. ccfc being at the ricoh no doubt helped get the stadium nameestablished but that purpose has now been served. A successful ccfc wouldbenefit the stadium and associated businesses eg the casino but it doesn't seem it is critical to the stadium's survival. If you look at http://www.ricoh.com/about/company/a...etc/index.html you willthe section on the Ricoh is headed 'Ricoh Arena (Birmingham, UK). The quote from Ricoh that CCFC's "future performance wouldplay a small part in whether we renewed our contract but the key benefits arefrom concerts and other events" is hugely telling.

 

[theferret]

Yes they get advertising through being mentioned with the football club which Jan has pointed out especially with the turmoil going on.
But your talking out your of your arse in terms of the Ricoh pulling out if the club isn't there !!
How many supporters that come through the turnstiles have personally bought a Ricoh product ? Not many i should imagine !!
How many potential Ricoh customers exhibit and visit the Ricoh " Thousands " this is Ricoh's target market Not Tom, Dick or Harry that comes to watch football or see's it on the TV or even hears the name mentioned on the radio !!!

Absolute tosh.

Is isn't about "how many supporters that come through the turnstiles have personally bought a Ricoh product", what makes you think that has got anything to do with the reasoning behind a deal like this? That is utterly absurd.

You clearly have zero understanding about advertising/marketing and the importance of brand awareness.

Do you have any idea how much it costs to have the name of the your company mentioned on radio or TV via paid advertising? Ricoh have their name mentioned on TV, radio and in print countless thousands of times every year FOR FREE in reference to CCFC and their opponents. That was what Ricoh were paying for - brand awareness. Yes, hosting corporate events and having signs at the side of the road is all good too, but it is the brand exposure they get from having the name above the door of a league football club which is what that deal is all about.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Fair enough but as the Kind Gentleman Ferret has eluded too, the LG is making more money on concerts than the Ricoh and that was the reason I eluded into the LG in the first place if CCFC were to leave the Arena and seek a new home I am not sure its viable for ACL to have a sustainable business model, despite there claims.

Again, conjecture. Every time ACL assert that have a future without the club; or their auditors sanction that belief by signing off accounts - the standard response is 'I don't believe it'.

ACL are often scoffed at for being an inefficient council-spiced gaggle of the deft and inept. Yet they've run rings around SISU in recent months. If they state they have a plan, I'm inclinedto believe it.

And look at their last two years accounts - decent profits. Look before that if you care to do so. If they needed to invest to change their model; I think they could do so.

Again; and let's be quite clear, I prey they don't and that CCFC continue to play there for many years to come. But Fisher has gambled with that, and frankly speaking - it just hasn't paid off. Has it?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Do you have any idea how much it costs to have the name of the your company mentioned on radio or TV via paid advertising? Ricoh have their name mentioned on TV, radio and in print countless thousands of times every year FOR FREE in reference to CCFC and their opponents. That was what Ricoh were paying for - brand awareness. Yes, hosting corporate events and having signs at the side of the road is all good too, but it is the brand exposure they get from having the name above the door of a league football club which is what that deal is all about.

Which - according to LG sponsoring the Arena at over three times the rate we get from Ricoh - isn't the Holy Grail of sponsorship agreementss. Or why do Barclaycard sponsor the NIA? Where's the league football there then?

 

[theferret]

Again, conjecture. Every time ACL assert that have a future without the club; or their auditors sanction that belief by signing off accounts - the standard response is 'I don't believe it'.

ACL are often scoffed at for being an inefficient council-spiced gaggle of the deft and inept. Yet they've run rings around SISU in recent months. If they state they have a plan, I'm inclinedto believe it.

And look at their last two years accounts - decent profits. Look before that if you care to do so. If they needed to invest to change their model; I think they could do so.

Again; and let's be quite clear, I prey they don't and that CCFC continue to play there for many years to come. But Fisher has gambled with that, and frankly speaking - it just hasn't paid off. Has it?

I'll concede that it is conjecture, and nobody can know for sure how ACL will cope with the loss of the football club. It's a huge gamble on their part also, let's not pretend it isn't.

What we know for certain is that a short time ago there were serious concerns about the viability of ACL and that the vultures from Yorkshire Bank were circling. Don't underestimate the significance of the council having to step in when they did.

 

[sky blue john]

One of the problems is that the Sisu have made mistake after mistake they have left everything to late and this mistake could be fatal !!!
When Sisu bought CCFC the Ricoh wasn't established yet and ACL were dependent on CCFC. Had Sisu followed through there early intentions and did what they said in the beginning and buy the half share none of this mess would have happened.
Now ACL have got themselves established with other revenues beyond CCFC which has made them stronger and less dependent.
So Sisu have only themselves to blame and the worst thing is they are dragging our club down with them !!

I can't even see a way back through mediation arbitration for our club to survive Sisu have to go !!!
But also the counsel have to share some responsibility for approving them in the beginning !!!
What they need to do is work together to find a buyer for the combined club and stadium !!!

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I'll concede that it is conjecture, and nobody can know for sure how ACL will cope with the loss of the football club. It's a huge gamble on their part also, let's not pretend it isn't.

What we know for certain is that a short time ago there were serious concerns about the viability of ACL and that the vultures from Yorkshire Bank were circling. Don't underestimate the significance of the council having to step in when they did.

It is a huge gamble, but given SISU's stance there are many who might suggest they had no choice. I think there's sufficient evidence thta ACL have 'tried' to be sufficiently flexible as to show they would be prepared, if not happy, to see CCFC continue at the Ricoh. But they've equally shown they won't be bullied into accepting another party's terms as a fait accompli. In this regard, in my view, Fisher has misjudged them and seriously over-played his hand. And the most valuable chip in that hand being the very future of our club. Which is my primary objection.

With regards your second point; I believe the Yorkshire's actions were a function of SISU's rent-stance, and what appeared to be a classical case of distressing a business with word and deed. Would you not agree with that?

 

[theferret]

Which - according to LG sponsoring the Arena at over three times the rate we get from Ricoh - isn't the Holy Grail of sponsorship agreementss. Or why do Barclaycard sponsor the NIA? Where's the league football there then?

No, I made the point that the primary reason behind the Ricoh deal was the exposure it would get from the football club, and remember the exhibition hall at the time was subject to a completely separate naming rights deal with Jaguar.

The LG is a major venue which has two or three big events every WEEK, so of course will be attractive to sponsors. The Ricoh doesn't have that or anything like it, because it is first and foremost a football stadium, and that is what Ricoh were sponsoring.

Major events at the LG in April:

One Direction 22 - 23 Mar 201317 Apr 2013
Bollywood Showstoppers05 Apr 2013
Gurdas Maan06 Apr 2013
CBeebies Live! presents Justin & Friends11 Apr 2013
Meat Loaf12 Apr 2013
Il Divo & Katherine Jenkins13 Apr 2013
Russell Peters14 Apr 2013
WWE Wrestlemania Revenge Smackdown20 Apr 2013
P!nk21 - 22 Apr 2013
BEYONCÉ26 - 27 Apr 2013

Major events at the Ricoh Arena in April

Davis Cup Tennis
Med-Tech Innovation Expo 2013

 

[oldskyblue58]

None of us really know but the serious concerns for ACL seem to have receded though havent they when despite the dispute they could sign off as a going concern. Yes the Council backed loan was significant, but not just to ACL.

If you look at the accounts then projections have been made for ACL till 2017 to demonstrate viability. Given the circumstances then any auditor worth his salt has to factor in to his considerations the real possibility of no football club income for ACL and that the arrears will not be collectable. They have to consider other actions ACL may have taken and other cost savings. Then they have to reach a conclusion as to whether it is a going concen.

I doubt we would find any one at ACL that (a) wants rid of the club and (b) thinks making money without the club will be easy. But they have to set their business up on a basis excluding the club so that ACL will not be dependent on the "volatility of the football industry"

Can they do it only time will tell. Can some agreement reached I damn well hope so. Can CCFC survive at all - above all I damn well hope so !

 

[theferret]

With regards your second point; I believe the Yorkshire's actions were a function of SISU's rent-stance, and what appeared to be a classical case of distressing a business with word and deed. Would you not agree with that?

Of course, but that surely leads to the inevitable conclusion that Yorkshire Bank had serious doubts about the ability of ACL to meet its mortgage payments without that rental income and/or a football club in place. Coventry City FC is after all the Ricoh Arena's raison d'etre.

 

[sky blue john]

Absolute tosh.

Is isn't about "how many supporters that come through the turnstiles have personally bought a Ricoh product", what makes you think that has got anything to do with the reasoning behind a deal like this? That is utterly absurd.

You clearly have zero understanding about advertising/marketing and the importance of brand awareness.

Do you have any idea how much it costs to have the name of the your company mentioned on radio or TV via paid advertising? Ricoh have their name mentioned on TV, radio and in print countless thousands of times every year FOR FREE in reference to CCFC and their opponents. That was what Ricoh were paying for - brand awareness. Yes, hosting corporate events and having signs at the side of the road is all good too, but it is the brand exposure they get from having the name above the door of a league football club which is what that deal is all about.

So your saying a Coldplay concert won't add as much value as a league one football match to the Ricoh sponsor ?
I would say a concert is going to recieve global interest not just england !!!

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

No, I made the point that the primary reason behind the Ricoh deal was the exposure it would get from the football club, and remember the exhibition hall at the time was subject to a completely separate naming rights deal with Jaguar.

The LG is a major venue which has two or three big events every WEEK, so of course will be attractive to sponsors. The Ricoh doesn't have that or anything like it, because it is first and foremost a football stadium, and that is what Ricoh were sponsoring.

Major events at the LG in April:

One Direction 22 - 23 Mar 201317 Apr 2013
Bollywood Showstoppers05 Apr 2013
Gurdas Maan06 Apr 2013
CBeebies Live! presents Justin & Friends11 Apr 2013
Meat Loaf12 Apr 2013
Il Divo & Katherine Jenkins13 Apr 2013
Russell Peters14 Apr 2013
WWE Wrestlemania Revenge Smackdown20 Apr 2013
P!nk21 - 22 Apr 2013
BEYONCÉ26 - 27 Apr 2013

Major events at the Ricoh Arena in April

Davis Cup Tennis
Med-Tech Innovation Expo 2013

But I am discussing a post-CCFC-less new business model; with The Arena reconfiguring itself with a new profile. As has been posted earlier, it's capacity over the summer for larger concerts overshadows the LG's haul by some factor (how much do Virgin spend on sponsoring the V-Festival, which is a total one-off event?).

And let's not forget it's directly adjacent the motorway, and I'm sure I've read visible to 54 million passers-by a year.

Again, I am not saying we would get the same sponsorship as the LG - as their is over 3 times greater than that we currently achieve. All I am saying is that it isn't thruthful to state it would get 'nothing' without football - as I clearly don't think that's the case.

But again - and perhaps most importantly the auditors seem to think it has life post-CCFC, as that would have been a consideration before signing accounts off given the current status bewteen the parties

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Of course, but that surely leads to the inevitable conclusion that Yorkshire Bank had serious doubts about the ability of ACL to meet its mortgage payments without that rental income and/or a football club in place. Coventry City FC is after all the Ricoh Arena's raison d'etre.

Given it's current model, yes.

But two points. Firstly, I'm glad you concede ACL were being classically distressed. And therefore the council, stepping in to counter the influence of abnormal business practices with an abnormal intervention seems justified. Especially if it's of financial benefit to both the council and ACL - in which it holds a material interest, of course.

And any bank will be worried about a whole year's worth of profitability being withheld from it's client and therefore it's ability to service it's obligations. That's understandable.

CCFC were the Arena's raison d'etre back in 2005. It's now evevidently clear that this becomes a borderline statement. And moving forward, ir may not be so at all

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Again, conjecture. Every time ACL assert that have a future without the club; or their auditors sanction that belief by signing off accounts - the standard response is 'I don't believe it'.

ACL are often scoffed at for being an inefficient council-spiced gaggle of the deft and inept. Yet they've run rings around SISU in recent months. If they state they have a plan, I'm inclinedto believe it.

And look at their last two years accounts - decent profits. Look before that if you care to do so. If they needed to invest to change their model; I think they could do so.

Again; and let's be quite clear, I prey they don't and that CCFC continue to play there for many years to come. But Fisher has gambled with that, and frankly speaking - it just hasn't paid off. Has it?

Of course it's conjecture I have never said once that any of what I have said is fact, it is my opinion and my opinion is that ACL will find it difficult to cope without CCFC, maybe not impossible, but very difficult.

"Yet they've run rings around SISU in recent months" So being bailed out by £14,000,000 is running rings round SISU? ACL have stood there ground admirably, but both sides (ACL & SISU) are playing games and the games need to stop for people that will be affected by this the most, that's the City of Coventry and people who have followed CCFC all there life. I for one will lose total respect for ACL/CCC if this situation isn't resolved just as much as I would for SISU.

You can look at those accounts all you like MMM, but that was when CCFC were stupid enough to keep paying the rent which is basically been throwing money down a bottomless pit, which has signifciant impact on ACL's accounts, Take this figure away and what are you left with?

I would like to think that CCFC will stay there, I hold the Arena in high regard, I have said before that is easily the best ground outside the Preimer League, it has massive potential this has been highlighted in our recent JPT tie with Crewe and suited in an ideal location for the people of Coventry, but Fisher/SISU have dug there feet into the sand in something they believe is wrong and I agree with that and commend them for it, but the deal was made before they were on the scene so if they want the Revenue Right's then should have to re-emburst the figure that ACL paid for it 2006, but they won't do that wrongly or rightly andthere is the issue. This situation is like a very tactical game of chess, each party is thinking three or four moves ahead and no Checkmate has yet been played, but currently its neck and neck and the outcome doesn't look good for all those involved.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Of course it's conjecture I have never said once that any of what I have said is fact, it is my opinion and my opinion is that ACL will find it difficult to cope without CCFC, maybe not impossible, but very difficult.

"Yet they've run rings around SISU in recent months" So being bailed out by £14,000,000 is running rings round SISU? ACL have stood there ground admirably, but both sides (ACL & SISU) are playing games and the games need to stop for people that will be affected by this the most, that's the City of Coventry and people who have followed CCFC all there life. I for one will lose total respect for ACL/CCC if this situation isn't resolved just as much as I would for SISU.

You can look at those accounts all you like MMM, but that was when CCFC were stupid enough to keep paying the rent which is basically been throwing money down a bottomless pit, which has signifciant impact on ACL's accounts, Take this figure away and what are you left with?

I would like to think that CCFC will stay there, I hold the Arena in high regard, I have said before that is easily the best ground outside the Preimer League, it has massive potential this has been highlighted in our recent JPT tie with Crewe and suited in an ideal location for the people of Coventry, but Fisher/SISU have dug there feet into the sand in something they believe is wrong and I agree with that and commend them for it, but the deal was made before they were on the scene so if they want the Revenue Right's then should have to re-emburst the figure that ACL paid for it 2006, but they won't do that wrongly or rightly andthere is the issue. This situation is like a very tactical game of chess, each party is thinking three or four moves ahead and no Checkmate has yet been played, but currently its neck and neck and the outcome doesn't look good for all those involved.

And in so doing taken our club to the edge of extinction. You're happy to 'commend' them for that? I'm afraid that's where you and I are in complete disagreement

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

"Yet they've run rings around SISU in recent months" So being bailed out by £14,000,000 is running rings round SISU? ACL have stood there ground admirably, but both sides (ACL & SISU) are playing games and the games need to stop for people that will be affected by this the most, that's the City of Coventry and people who have followed CCFC all there life. I for one will lose total respect for ACL/CCC if this situation isn't resolved just as much as I would for SISU.

Like it or not, the £14m agreement with the council took the wind out of Fisher's sails in a way he couldn't possibly have expected. To supplement this with the debt order, coming into play at the end of the season gave him nowhere to go. He either negotiates - openly, honestly and with intent - or he's left with no alternative other than to show his true colours. That's 'running rings' my friend. Surely you want him at the table, negotiating what's best for our club? Or are you happy with all these whimsical notions about new stadia just outside of Rugby somewhere? What sort of distraction is this, when negotiations are there to be had, and rentals accruing day-by-day?

Let me ask you a simple question. We signed, what, 9 players in the summer? Fisher now admits that we will enter transfer embargo next season due to FFP rules without movement. Not now, that's into next season too.

How did this happen? He gambled on us either getting promoted, or pulling revenue streams from ACL we currently have no lawful right to in order to make sure we didn't enter automatic transfer embargo. How is that to run a business? How confident can you be in this business and those steering it?

 

[theferret]

So your saying a Coldplay concert won't add as much value as a league one football match to the Ricoh sponsor ?
I would say a concert is going to recieve global interest not just england !!!

Why would you compare one football match with one concert?

It is the overall brand awareness that you get from sponsoring a football stadium. The collective exposure you get across all media platforms across an entire season from having your name bolted to a football stadium is worth a huge amount.

When Ricoh signed up, they were naming a football stadium, and the deal didn't even include the rest of the complex like the exhibition hall which were subject to separate naming rights deals.

Take the football club away and that deal becomes worthless. Yes, things evolve, and 'Ricoh Arena' is used now as a blanket term for the entire complex, but it is not enough to justify Ricoh staying in under the current terms, because a huge amount of exposure would be lost. What I have been told, and I work a lot with people from Ricoh, is that they would bail out. Just what I have been told.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

And in so doing taken our club to the edge of extinction. You're happy to 'commend' them for that? I'm afraid that's where you and I are in complete disagreement

I commend them standing there ground with the rent, of course I am not happy wth the situation that we may even go out of business..