The Forums (2 Viewers)

SLOnAir

New Member
As people have asked me for my opinions on the Forums, etc..., I just wanted to set a few things down in writing and, maybe, deal with one or two issues along the way.

I think the Forums have been useful in that they have provided an opportunity for many people to make it crystal clear what they think about the club's current plight. There have also been one or two new facts emerge. Not everyone will agree with what's been said and, I have to say, it's clear that a number of people do not properly understand what it going on. I don't blame anyone for that confusion and lack of understanding. It is all extremely complicated and it is easy for any of us to lose track.

It is also true that many questions that were asked were not answered fully for one reason or another. I know, for example, there are those who claim to have made a forensic examination of the club's accounts and it's articles, etc..., and believe that there are questions arising from them that should be answered. Those issues were never going to be dealt with appropriately or thoroughly in the environment of a forum such as these. I am not sure in what scenario, other than in a court room, they would be addressed. However, in the forum format, with many people wanting and entitled to have their say, it was always going to be difficult, if not impossible to deal with those matters to anyone's satisfaction.

As for Monday's Forum not being broadcast, BBC Coventry & Warwickshire wanted and intended to broadcast all three, but unfortunately there was another - quite separate (so far as I know) - event in that room on Monday afternoon and it was not scheduled to finish early enough for the engineers to move in and get things set up for either a live broadcast or a recording.

So, what next? Your guess is as good - probably better - than mine, but consider carefully the language used by the various parties when they issue statements. Does the Football League definitively regard the Golden Share as having been in "Ltd"? They have never put it quite like that.

Is ACL really offering a rent free 12 months to any owner, or is that only available to everyone apart from Sisu, and did I read it's only while we are in administration or did I misunderstand that? Surely, who ever the owner is they will want to exit administration as quickly as possible.

And has Michael Byng's Chinese backed group submitted a bid or not? He tells me he has.

Michael says his backers have nearly pulled out twice because they regard the whole things as a complete mess. On that point, I am sure there is something we can all agree with.
 

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_brian_

Well-Known Member
As people have asked me for my opinions on the Forums, etc..., I just wanted to set a few things down in writing and, maybe, deal with one or two issues along the way.

I think the Forums have been useful in that they have provided an opportunity for many people to make it crystal clear what they think about the club's current plight. There have also been one or two new facts emerge. Not everyone will agree with what's been said and, I have to say, it's clear that a number of people do not properly understand what it going on. I don't blame anyone for that confusion and lack of understanding. It is all extremely complicated and it is easy for any of us to lose track.

It is also true that many questions that were asked were not answered fully for one reason or another. I know, for example, that are those who claim to have made a forensic examination of the club's accounts and it's articles, etc..., and believe that there are questions arising from them that should be answered. Those issues were never going to be dealt with appropriately or thoroughly in the environment of a forum such as these. I am not sure in what scenario, other than in a court room, they would be addressed. However, in the forum format, with many people wanting and entitled to have their say

Have you been shot by Fisher whilst writing that?!?! LOL!!!
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
I think the Forums have been useful in that they have provided an opportunity for many people to make it crystal clear what they think about the club's current plight.

Hasn't that been obvious anyway?

There have also been one or two new facts emerge.

The only one I can think of is pre SISU they struggled to pay the rent.

Not everyone will agree with what's been said

Has anything actually been said?

and, I have to say, it's clear that a number of people do not properly understand what it going on.

Which people and in what way?

Those issues were never going to be dealt with appropriately or thoroughly in the environment of a forum such as these.

I tend to agree.

To be clear, I thought you yourself did your job well, I can only think they've been useful for those wanting to shout at Fisher though, I'm not sure we're any further on!
 

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
Stuart, Today ACL have kindly offered CCFC a Rent free Ricoh Arena while in Adminstration, (The Question) How do you perceive this move, Surely there is not much difference between what ACL have offered and what SISU did during last season financially?
 

SLOnAir

New Member
Stuart, Today ACL have kindly offered CCFC a Rent free Ricoh Arena while in Adminstration, (The Question) How do you perceive this move, Surely there is not much difference between what ACL have offered and what SISU did during last season financially?

As I said above (after pressing the send button too soon - sorry) I find the words "while in administration" very odd. Surely whoever the successful bidder is they will want to exit administration ASAP. One wonders what football knowledge, if any, went into the framing of this "offer", and - indeed - what it's intended to achieve.
 

luwalla

Well-Known Member
As people have asked me for my opinions on the Forums, etc..., I just wanted to set a few things down in writing and, maybe, deal with one or two issues along the way.

I think the Forums have been useful in that they have provided an opportunity for many people to make it crystal clear what they think about the club's current plight. There have also been one or two new facts emerge. Not everyone will agree with what's been said and, I have to say, it's clear that a number of people do not properly understand what it going on. I don't blame anyone for that confusion and lack of understanding. It is all extremely complicated and it is easy for any of us to lose track.

It is also true that many questions that were asked were not answered fully for one reason or another. I know, for example, that are those who claim to have made a forensic examination of the club's accounts and it's articles, etc..., and believe that there are questions arising from them that should be answered. Those issues were never going to be dealt with appropriately or thoroughly in the environment of a forum such as these. I am not sure in what scenario, other than in a court room, they would be addressed. However, in the forum format, with many people wanting and entitled to have their say, it was always going to be difficult, if not impossible to deal with those matters to anyone's satisfaction.

As for Monday's Forum not being broadcast, BBC Coventry & Warwickshire wanted and intended to broadcast all three, but unfortunately there was another - quite separate (so far as I know) - event in that room on Monday afternoon and it was not scheduled to finish early enough for the engineers to move in and get things set up for either a live broadcast or a recording.

So, what next? Your guess is as good - probably better - than mine, but consider carefully the language used by the various parties when they issue statements. Does the Football League definitively regard the Golden Share as having been in "Ltd"? They have never put it quite like that.

Is ACL really offering a rent free 12 months to any owner, or is that only available to everyone apart from Sisu, and did I read it's only while we are in administration or did I misunderstand that? Surely, who ever the owner is they will want to exit administration as quickly as possible.

And has Michael Byng's Chinese backed group submitted a bid or not? He tells me he has.

Michael says his backers have nearly pulled out twice because they regard the whole things as a complete mess. On that point, I am sure there is something we can all agree with.

again thanks for coming on stuart.. i think most people will make their own minds up regarding the answers to the financial questions, and i dont think its too hard to come to a reasonable conclusion as to what has gone on in the lead up to the club going into administration... and the club have done themselves no favors by skirting round these issues.

They came into these forums saying the fans could ask what they liked, and with the intent of winning back some trust.. but they answered very little , skirted round most pertinent issues, and because of this they walked away with most fans that ive talked with trusting them even less.

I would add to that , that they may have even damaged themselves further! TF & the clubs accountant seemed smug at times, condescending & contradicting at times, and gave the impression that they were trying to cover over or steer financial questions in a different direction.. or give answers that suited what they wanted to say, rather than be the actual answer to the actual question being asked

i went into this with an open mind ( believe it or not ) and i have walked away thinking i wouldn't even trust them to lock the doors on the way out..
 
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RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
As I said above (after pressing the send button too soon - sorry) I find the words "while in administration" very odd. Surely whoever the successful bidder is they will want to exit administration ASAP. One wonders what football knowledge, if any, went into the framing of this "offer", and - indeed - what it's intended to achieve.

Thank you Stuart my initial reaction to this offer from ACL was that the offer itself was intended of putting pressure on Paul Appleton to ensure Coventry playing their home games at the Ricoh Arena next season, to what means and ends this was intended remains to be seen..
 

fleebagfisher

New Member
its a empty offer surely made to sweeten any deal with new owners? not sure but im sure of one thing none of these so called professionals are acting very professionally .. more like spoilt children. they just need to get together and act like grown-up men and women for the sake of the club and fans and for themselves. its so embarrassing.
 

SLOnAir

New Member
Thank you Stuart my initial reaction to this offer from ACL was that the offer itself was intended of putting pressure on Paul Appleton to ensure Coventry playing their home games at the Ricoh Arena next season, to what means and ends this was intended remains to be seen..

You may be right, but it doesn't make a lot sense to me. Whoever owns the club next season, they will surely want to exit administration immediately their acquisition is complete, or very soon thereafter. So, an offer to play rent free "while in administration" does not appear to offer very much, if anything.
 

Senior Vick from Alicante

Well-Known Member
Hi Stuart, thanks for coming on. Do you not think that Tim muddied the waters even more with his and the accountants answers as they will only give their opinion from their side. He now knows how the fans feel about moving away from a top class facility, that is a good outcome at least as he and maybe SISU will be aware of how much they will loose over the next 3 years. Also in the light of the ACL bid and todays offer of a period of rent free games, the ball is firmly back in Tims court, has any one contacted ACL to suggest that they have a forum so we can all have a balanced view?
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
As people have asked me for my opinions on the Forums, etc..., I just wanted to set a few things down in writing and, maybe, deal with one or two issues along the way.

I think the Forums have been useful in that they have provided an opportunity for many people to make it crystal clear what they think about the club's current plight. There have also been one or two new facts emerge. Not everyone will agree with what's been said and, I have to say, it's clear that a number of people do not properly understand what it going on. I don't blame anyone for that confusion and lack of understanding. It is all extremely complicated and it is easy for any of us to lose track.

It is also true that many questions that were asked were not answered fully for one reason or another. I know, for example, there are those who claim to have made a forensic examination of the club's accounts and it's articles, etc..., and believe that there are questions arising from them that should be answered. Those issues were never going to be dealt with appropriately or thoroughly in the environment of a forum such as these. I am not sure in what scenario, other than in a court room, they would be addressed. However, in the forum format, with many people wanting and entitled to have their say, it was always going to be difficult, if not impossible to deal with those matters to anyone's satisfaction.

As for Monday's Forum not being broadcast, BBC Coventry & Warwickshire wanted and intended to broadcast all three, but unfortunately there was another - quite separate (so far as I know) - event in that room on Monday afternoon and it was not scheduled to finish early enough for the engineers to move in and get things set up for either a live broadcast or a recording.

So, what next? Your guess is as good - probably better - than mine, but consider carefully the language used by the various parties when they issue statements. Does the Football League definitively regard the Golden Share as having been in "Ltd"? They have never put it quite like that.

Is ACL really offering a rent free 12 months to any owner, or is that only available to everyone apart from Sisu, and did I read it's only while we are in administration or did I misunderstand that? Surely, who ever the owner is they will want to exit administration as quickly as possible.

And has Michael Byng's Chinese backed group submitted a bid or not? He tells me he has.

Michael says his backers have nearly pulled out twice because they regard the whole things as a complete mess. On that point, I am sure there is something we can all agree with.

Your colleagues at CWR are making it sound for a whole season and Phil Upton is going to be speaking to someone during his show.
 

SuttonSkyBlue

New Member
Hi Stuart

Having listened to both forums that were broadcast, it appears to be clearer than ever that new owners are needed to unify the club, its fans, and its principal stakeholders. SISU's plan to build a new stadium makes absolutely no business sense given that there is only minimal support from the club's paying customers. I'd go as far as to say that SISU are now clinging onto ownership of the club against the fans wishes, especially if they go through with their plan.

SISU are clearly in an unenviable position and I expect that they will be more than willing to listen to offers if they are made Mr Appleton's preferred bidder. I dont understand why they will continue to commit so much time and money for so little reward and an awful lot of grief. We are all aware that there are other parties willing to take the club off their hands. Therefore, I'm very much hopeful that Tim Fisher's claim that SISU wont sell 'at the bottom of the business cycle' (or similar) is simply a public position, and that instead they will be pragmatic and look to recoup whatever they can get before incurring further losses.

This is only my personal take on these increasingly complicated events.
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
PWKH says once admin is over to sit down and sort a ten yr deal as that is what the FL require ,whoever owns after coming out of admin.
 

intercity

New Member
hi stuart,now we have had the forums and are approaching pre season for the club,are you confident we will be playing somewhere next season?cheers
 

Lord_Nampil

Well-Known Member
Hi Stuart, do you think Tim is putting across, a plan, for example could be plan c or d, when he talks about the ground share etc. Or do think its the plan, ie plan a, once sisu get ltd back this is what they are going to do.... I find it hard to believe this is plan a, would like to know your thoughts. Cheers
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
PWKH says once admin is over to sit down and sort a ten yr deal as that is what the FL require ,whoever owns after coming out of admin.

I'd prefer a long term deal, can't be doing with it all kicking off again in 10 years time!
 

Skybluesquirrel

New Member
I know, for example, there are those who claim to have made a forensic examination of the club's accounts and it's articles, etc..., and believe that there are questions arising from them that should be answered. Those issues were never going to be dealt with appropriately or thoroughly in the environment of a forum such as these. I am not sure in what scenario, other than in a court room, they would be addressed. However, in the forum format, with many people wanting and entitled to have their say, it was always going to be difficult, if not impossible to deal with those matters to anyone's satisfaction.

Why does it need a court room? Its fairly simple stuff and can be answered in a forum quite quickly in my opinion. Are you and TF suggesting City fans are not up to following simple lines of argument?

CCFC Ltd has acted like a football club. It has historically been paying players wages, listing their contracts as assets and showing profit and losses on the sale of players registrations in CCFC Ltd accounts. These do NOT appear in CCFC Holdings Ltd. Yet TF claims that Holdings is and always was the Football club, since CCFC Ltd was incorporated.

CCFC Ltd accounts of May 2011 states, clearly on page 1 of the financial statements, that the principle activity as:

'The company is principally engaged in the playing activities of a professional football club'

Why can't you ask TF why he thinks this is incorrect, particularly when he signed them off? Why does it need a court?

This part is hardly a forensic investigation (but thanks for the compliment) - its on the first page of publicly available material.
 
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wingy

Well-Known Member
I'd prefer a long term deal, can't be doing with it all kicking off again in 10 years time!

maybe like a rollover ,an increase of 1 with each passing yr.

Have listened to PWKH .It is as clear as mud .
The offer is for the term of Admin I think and if that was a season that would be the offer.

regards ACL purchase of CCFC didn't sound equivocal on that .inferring that the money could come from elsewhere other than ACL /council

Sounds like Higgs will bow out if all comes to pass and whoever takes their share is likely to fund this possible bid..

Timmy on in the morning with Shane.:facepalm:
 

luwalla

Well-Known Member
Why does it need a court room? Its fairly simple stuff and can be answered in a forum quite quickly in my opinion. Are you and TF suggesting City fans are not up to following simple lines of argument?

CCFC Ltd has acted like a football club. It has historically been paying players wages, listing their contracts as assets and showing profit and losses on the sale of players registrations in CCFC Ltd accounts. These do NOT appear in CCFC Holdings Ltd. Yet TF claims that Holdings is and always was the Football club, since the CCFC Ltd was incorporated.

CCFC Ltd accounts of May 2011 states, clearly on page 1 of the financial statements, that the principle activity as:

'The company is principally engaged in the playing activities of a professional football club'

Why can't you ask TF why he thinks this is incorrect, particularly when he signed them off? Why does it need a court?

This part is hardly a forensic investigation (but thanks for the compliment) - its on the first page of publicly available material.

spot on.. i guess the answer is plain to see, and a lot of people will already have come to their own conclusion.

But for the club to come out and say they want to be honest with the fans, and hold these forums, while this 'financial question' was floating around, was either very naive of the club, or very stupid.. because im not sure it is possible.
 

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
You may be right, but it doesn't make a lot sense to me. Whoever owns the club next season, they will surely want to exit administration immediately their acquisition is complete, or very soon thereafter. So, an offer to play rent free "while in administration" does not appear to offer very much, if anything.

I think the intention of this offer is to narrow SISU's wiggle room so to speak as many of us have said on the Forum surely if this offer isn't accepted by Paul Appleton the FL's view on this will be that the situation was made quite clear and that the chance to stay in Coventry was avaliable and not taken. This might then go in ACL's hands but is unsure for what gain.
 

SLOnAir

New Member
Why does it need a court room? Its fairly simple stuff and can be answered in a forum quite quickly in my opinion. Are you and TF suggesting City fans are not up to following simple lines of argument?

CCFC Ltd has acted like a football club. It has historically been paying players wages, listing their contracts as assets and showing profit and losses on the sale of players registrations in CCFC Ltd accounts. These do NOT appear in CCFC Holdings Ltd. Yet TF claims that Holdings is and always was the Football club, since CCFC Ltd was incorporated.

CCFC Ltd accounts of May 2011 states, clearly on page 1 of the financial statements, that the principle activity as:

'The company is principally engaged in the playing activities of a professional football club'

Why can't you ask TF why he thinks this is incorrect, particularly when he signed them off? Why does it need a court?

This part is hardly a forensic investigation (but thanks for the compliment) - its on the first page of publicly available material.

Sorry - been busy elsewhere.

The answer to your question lies in the responses to the variations of this question that have been asked over the three forums - admittedly asked more precisely on Monday. What you will hear by way of reply is that (a) it is all wrapped up in the way the group's business has been conducted over a number of years, (b) it is a mess that needs sorting out, (c) the way the business has been conducted in recent years should leave no one in any doubt which company did what.

I am not saying that any of these answers are disingenuous or untrue, nor would I claim that they in any way satisfactorily answer your questions, but when I say "court" I suppose what I mean is an environment with an indisputable degree of expertise, qualification and unbiased perspective that would allow for appropriate clear, concise questions and appropriate clear, concise answers.

With the best will in the world, that is not possible in the forum format, and - like it or not - there are many supporters who would either not easily follow the arguments or fully understand them if they tried. That is really not intended to be a criticism, it is a fact of life.
 

SLOnAir

New Member
Your colleagues at CWR are making it sound for a whole season and Phil Upton is going to be speaking to someone during his show.

Good. I hope they pursue the "while in administration" phrase, if that is what ACL is saying
 

olderskyblue

Well-Known Member
Whoever wins this bid, you can be sure it will be contested, and therefore we could be in admin for quite some time. In the meantime, it enables the administrator (or someone) to make plans for the new season knowing there is a ground to play in.

Or is that too simple?
 

SLOnAir

New Member
PWKH says once admin is over to sit down and sort a ten yr deal as that is what the FL require ,whoever owns after coming out of admin.

I would be very interested to hear that stated as clearly as that directly from the Football League.
 

olderskyblue

Well-Known Member
I hope they press the financial questions with Tim as well....
 

SLOnAir

New Member
hi stuart,now we have had the forums and are approaching pre season for the club,are you confident we will be playing somewhere next season?cheers

I am no more confident about the future of the club than anyone else, but I would be surprised if Coventry City was not playing "somewhere" next season.
 

SLOnAir

New Member
Hi Stuart, do you think Tim is putting across, a plan, for example could be plan c or d, when he talks about the ground share etc. Or do think its the plan, ie plan a, once sisu get ltd back this is what they are going to do.... I find it hard to believe this is plan a, would like to know your thoughts. Cheers

As I have said before, anyone who fails to take the ground-share and 'new build' plan seriously is making a very big mistake.
 

SLOnAir

New Member
maybe like a rollover ,an increase of 1 with each passing yr.

Have listened to PWKH .It is as clear as mud .
The offer is for the term of Admin I think and if that was a season that would be the offer.

regards ACL purchase of CCFC didn't sound equivocal on that .inferring that the money could come from elsewhere other than ACL /council
E
Sounds like Higgs will bow out if all comes to pass and whoever takes their share is likely to fund this possible bid..

Timmy on in the morning with Shane.:facepalm:[/QUOTE

I have not heard PWKH. Does he say he is speaking for ACL?]
 

SLOnAir

New Member
I think the intention of this offer is to narrow SISU's wiggle room so to speak as many of us have said on the Forum surely if this offer isn't accepted by Paul Appleton the FL's view on this will be that the situation was made quite clear and that the chance to stay in Coventry was avaliable and not taken. This might then go in ACL's hands but is unsure for what gain.

(a) I don't think the situation has been made "quite clear" by this offer, and (b) nor am I at all sure what notice the Football League would take of this anyway.
 

Voice_of_Reason

Well-Known Member
I was at the forum last night and it is quite clear to me that SISU is pressing ahead of its plans regardless of public opinion. Even the most probing questions would be dismissed... SISU has little, or no, respect for the clubs supporters (in my opinion). SISU as expected are looking at this purely from a business aspect and its mind is made up.
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
maybe like a rollover ,an increase of 1 with each passing yr.

Have listened to PWKH .It is as clear as mud .
The offer is for the term of Admin I think and if that was a season that would be the offer.

regards ACL purchase of CCFC didn't sound equivocal on that .inferring that the money could come from elsewhere other than ACL /council
E
Sounds like Higgs will bow out if all comes to pass and whoever takes their share is likely to fund this possible bid..

Timmy on in the morning with Shane.:facepalm:[/QUOTE

I have not heard PWKH. Does he say he is speaking for ACL?]

He's the head of Higgs but obviously on the board of ACL and I guess informed to speak for them.
 

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