Fisher rejects Hoffman offer (6 Viewers)

[torchomatic]

The club have made a statement on the offer. On my phone so cant link to it.



Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 2

 

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[Astute]

Please see below a response to today's offer from Gary Hoffman regarding the Ricoh Arena:“ACL's position to date has been that they don't recognise us as the Football Club's lawful owner and hence have consistently refused to talk to us so I don’t know what authority Mr Hoffman has to bind ACL into any future agreement."Besides which, there has been no detail behind these proposals which were only put to the Club by phone last night."We wouldn’t want to raise fans’ hopes given that the main source of income whilst playing at the Ricoh was ticket receipts and it certainly doesn’t make sense to describe the deal as an "offer to pay arena rent"” when actually the deal is a loan secured against ticket sales resulting in the club giving away a huge chunk of ticket revenues, our only revenue stream."Read more at*http://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/club-statement-on-hoffman-offer-909464.aspx#BMYsCXESuswVwsUl.99*

Sounds like they have been on here a lot today.

Listen Timmy. Most of us know that they are not supposed to talk directly with you whilst in admin. So of course ACL won't talk directly with you. Your bitch Appleton has offered to do it for you. He has to though. Should have been part of his job. Now the FL knows all about this. Football fans all over the country know about this. You can't just brush it under the table any more.

You have two choices. Start playing the game properly or fook off away from our club. That is unless you have many millions to waste. If your threat of building another ground is serious just build it. If it isn't in Cov we won't go.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

whats with this F@B shit maximize turnover so move to Northampton where by the way they will get little or no revenue.
At the End of the day they have decided to take our Club away from us and it just goes to show they are not interested in coming back.

Our club is dead as we know it the History that belongs to us will always be there they however have not earn t it and I for one will not give it them.



SO FUCK OFF SISU YOU ARE NOT WANTED HERE STAY IN NORTHAMPTON build your new modular ground call it what you want but GIVE US OUR CLUB BACK!!


I HOPE YOU ALL ROT IN HELL FOR WHAT YOU HAVE DONE



:blue:

Okay without looking at this offer in a biase way and slandering Tim Fisher for not keeping us in Coventry (Yet) did Hoffman mention what/if revenue's such as F&B, etc were included in the deal? (I assume not) Not that this is a huge amount I am sure per game, but we have already heard Timmy say that it's because they want to maximise there revenue (Which I understand) that they will look at somewhere else...

 

[chiefdave]

I think Tims having some sort of breakdown. Every time he's interviewed he sounds less sure what he's saying and he statements that are coming out on the website are like the rumblings of a madman. He's backed himself and SISU into a corner and people are starting to ask questions he can't answer without dropping himself in it.

 

[torchomatic]

The statement doesn't say no though, does it?

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Astute]

False on both counts.



Straw man argument.



Failed condescension.

If you are going to cry bullshit on a post, don't submit a mish-mash of nonsense.

So what deal do they want then? The ones they already could have had if they never tried sending ACL to the wall?

Name any way that Man UTD have in common with us? Oh yes we are both called football teams :facepalm:

 

[Colonel Mustard]

So what deal do they want then?

Not a deal where they get the Ricoh for free. It's a ludicrous thing to say, and symptomatic of the extreme mindset that stops us viewing the situation with any nuance.

Name any way that Man UTD have in common with us? Oh yes we are both called football teams :facepalm:

Fucking hell. The point was about the ability of fans to affect change.

 

[mattylad]

Sounds like they have been on here a lot today.

Listen Timmy. Most of us know that they are not supposed to talk directly with you whilst in admin. So of course ACL won't talk directly with you. Your bitch Appleton has offered to do it for you. He has to though. Should have been part of his job. Now the FL knows all about this. Football fans all over the country know about this. You can't just brush it under the table any more.

You have two choices. Start playing the game properly or fook off away from our club. That is unless you have many millions to waste. If your threat of building another ground is serious just build it. If it isn't in Cov we won't go.

yep not to mention the small number of tickets sold at NTFC would be eclipsed by the number sold at the Ricoh even with handing a portion over to GH to cover the rent they will pay in advance. ....holes Timmy! your whole plan has lots of gaping holes.

 

[Astute]

Not a deal where they get the Ricoh for free. It's a ludicrous thing to say, and symptomatic of the extreme mindset that stops us viewing the situation with any nuance.



Fucking hell. The point was about the ability of fans to affect change.

But where would we be if all of us just laid down for SISU and let them shaft us? Certainly not where we are now. Think about it. The Hoff is a Cov fan. SISU don't have the clout of the Glaziers. But you still choose one of the biggest club sides to compare to us ointlaugh:

 

[Colonel Mustard]

But where would we be if all of us just laid down for SISU and let them shaft us? Certainly not where we are now. Think about it.

I'm trying.

So you're saying we didn't just lie down, and that our situation could have been worse?

What?

The Hoff is a Cov fan. SISU don't have the clout of the Glaziers. But you still choose one of the biggest club sides to compare to us ointlaugh:

No. I contrasted the fan power.

Just ... stop.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

whats with this F@B shit maximize turnover so move to Northampton where by the way they will get little or no revenue.
At the End of the day they have decided to take our Club away from us and it just goes to show they are not interested in coming back.

Our club is dead as we know it the History that belongs to us will always be there they however have not earn t it and I for one will not give it them.
Stop using my quotes by the way where are the smiley thingies?


SO FUCK OFF SISU YOU ARE NOT WANTED HERE STAY IN NORTHAMPTON build your new modular ground call it what you want but GIVE US OUR CLUB BACK!!


I HOPE YOU ALL ROT IN HELL FOR WHAT YOU HAVE DONE



:blue:

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Dont use my quotes

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Shut it before you get yourself in trouble
The thingies are at the top of the post bar just click on the face and choose the one you want

:blue:

Dont use my quotes

 

[Astute]

I'm trying.

So you're saying we didn't just lie down, and that our situation could have been worse?

What?



No. I contrasted the fan power.

Just ... stop.

Yes fan power. Like you said. The Hoff is a fan of CCFC. You agree? Well he has put a cat amongst the pidgeons :claping hands: Is your Timmy so confident now? For the second time today they have put more crap on the offal. Well done Hoff imp:

Man Utd's owners didn't have a hidden agenda. SISU did. Man Utd are still one of the best club teams in the world. Under SISU we are amongst the worst. Yet you still compare them to us.

 

[duffer]

"and he's grown up enough to put the past behind him" -- that's usually the privilege of the winner, such as the political leader who brings into cabinet a rival who led a nasty campaign against him.



SISU seem satisfied enough with their arrangements. It's ACL and their backers who are fretting -- and with good reason.

What a strange interpretation on all counts. Since when was reconciliation purely in the purview of the victor? I've always considered it required intelligent action from all aggrieved parties.

However I note you seem to delight in the idea that SISU have 'won'.

So what exactly have they won?

SISU's "success" means that they have to move away from a perfectly good stadium, to a smaller, poorer ground for 3-5 years where they still won't get access to the income streams and will have alienated (conservatively) 75% of their customers and some of their main sponsors. Then, if you believe them, they'll have to pay to plan and build a smaller stadium than the one they've moved from, almost certainly outside the city from which the club draws their name.

If you can define that as a victory then I'd hate to see what you consider a defeat!

In the meantime, you're right about one thing. ACL's backers in the form of the people of Coventry who stand to lose public funds, and a local charity, probably are 'fretting'. As are most fans who don't want to move to Northampton.

That you are clearly happy about that says everything I need to know about you.

 

[James Smith]

"and he's grown up enough to put the past behind him" -- that's usually the privilege of the winner, such as the political leader who brings into cabinet a rival who led a nasty campaign against him.



SISU seem satisfied enough with their arrangements. It's ACL and their backers who are fretting -- and with good reason.

I thought ACL were the ones who had consistently filed their accounts on time and it was the SISU companies that hadn't. ACL also haven't had their accounts described as a mess by their Chief executive/chairman.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Yes fan power. Like you said. The Hoff is a fan of CCFC. You agree? Well he has put a cat amongst the pidgeons :claping hands: Is your Timmy so confident now? For the second time today they have put more crap on the offal. Well done Hoff imp:

There is nothing coherent there. You are just rambling.

Man Utd's owners didn't have a hidden agenda. SISU did. Man Utd are still one of the best club teams in the world. Under SISU we are amongst the worst. Yet you still compare them to us.

Are you really this thick?

 

[Colonel Mustard]

What a strange interpretation on all counts. Since when was reconciliation purely in the purview of the victor? I've always considered it required intelligent action from all aggrieved parties.

You talk as if Hoffman has something to offer. He doesn't. That's the point.

However I note you seem to delight in the idea that SISU have 'won'.

I have no such delight. If you'd asked me how I felt instead of making assumptions, you could have spared yourself the next couple of paragraphs.

If you can define that as a victory then I'd hate to see what you consider a defeat!

Blah. Out of ACL, Hoffman & co, the fans, and SISU, which one do you think is the least pissed off with recent events? Putting the rhetoric aside, it's a much easier way to determine a 'victor'.

In the meantime, you're right about one thing. ACL's backers in the form of the people of Coventry who stand to lose public funds, and a local charity, probably are 'fretting'. As are most fans who don't want to move to Northampton.

And will CCC and ACL's power players be held accountable for that by the likes of yourself?

That you are clearly happy about that says everything I need to know about you.

That you make wildly wrong assumptions tells me everything I need to know about you.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

I think Tims having some sort of breakdown. Every time he's interviewed he sounds less sure what he's saying and he statements that are coming out on the website are like the rumblings of a madman. He's backed himself and SISU into a corner and people are starting to ask questions he can't answer without dropping himself in it.

Excellent, I got to link his soundtrack again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrVdskE2GS4

 

[James Smith]

SISU seem satisfied enough with their arrangements.

Shame their customers or the fans as we're often called aren't.

It's ACL and their backers who are fretting -- and with good reason.

Just re read a couple of quotes from one of the backers of ACL who posts on here and posted yesterday, he didn't appear to be fretting. Is it the fact that Ms Lucas isn't renewing here season ticket the fretting to which you refer?

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I thought ACL were the ones who had consistently filed their accounts on time and it was the SISU companies that hadn't. ACL also haven't had their accounts described as a mess by their Chief executive/chairman.

It's not so much to do with that. More along the lines of having a big stadium and hefty mortgage with no footie club and, likely, growing annoyance from the people of the city.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Shut it before you get yourself in trouble
The thingies are at the top of the post bar just click on the face and choose the one you want

:blue:
Oh, that's where they are? That's a really, really shit un-user-friendly interface you've chosen, Nick! :facepalm:

There's a lot less smileys, too..

 

[Nick]

Shut it before you get yourself in trouble
The thingies are at the top of the post bar just click on the face and choose the one you want

:blue:

Oh, that's where they are? That's a really, really shit un-user-friendly interface you've chosen, Nick! :facepalm:

There's a lot less smileys, too..

Yep, it is being looked into as it was showing the site down and there were compatibility issues so when it can be fixed I'll have it back

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Yep, it is being looked into as it was showing the site down and there were compatibility issues so when it can be fixed I'll have it back

Can't say fairer than that.


Is that a phrase? Sounds wrong...ah well, doesn't normally stop me..

 

[James Smith]

It's not so much to do with that. More along the lines of having a big stadium and hefty mortgage with no footie club and, likely, growing annoyance from the people of the city.

I may not live in the environs of Coventry any more but it seems to me that the annoyance is with SISU and their decisions, it is in my case.

 

[wingy]

Can't say fairer than that.


Is that a phrase? Sounds wrong...ah well, doesn't normally stop me..

see this Is what happens when someone in control/Power takes an Autocratic stance expecting The Sheep to blindly follow,sorry nick Lol:facepalm:

 

[cloughie]

You talk as if Hoffman has something to offer. He doesn't. That's the point.



I have no such delight. If you'd asked me how I felt instead of making assumptions, you could have spared yourself the next couple of paragraphs.



Blah. Out of ACL, Hoffman & co, the fans, and SISU, which one do you think is the least pissed off with recent events? Putting the rhetoric aside, it's a much easier way to determine a 'victor'.

You do glory in your sisu 'victory'

Oh well counting your chickens etc spings to mind

And will CCC and ACL's power players be held accountable for that by the likes of yourself?



That you make wildly wrong assumptions tells me everything I need to know about you.

You gloat in your sisu 'victory'

counting your chickens springs to mind

 

[duffer]

You talk as if Hoffman has something to offer. He doesn't. That's the point.

I have no such delight. If you'd asked me how I felt instead of making assumptions, you could have spared yourself the next couple of paragraphs.

Blah. Out of ACL, Hoffman & co, the fans, and SISU, which one do you think is the least pissed off with recent events? Putting the rhetoric aside, it's a much easier way to determine a 'victor'.

And will CCC and ACL's power players be held accountable for that by the likes of yourself?

That you make wildly wrong assumptions tells me everything I need to know about you.

Last I saw, Hoffman had a way of allowing SISU to stay at the Ricoh rent-free. That looks like 'something to offer' to me.

I would've thought anyone with a brain would be pissed off by recent events. If you're determining victory by smugness quotient, then Fisher's a nailed on winner. Leaving the rhetoric aside, if you want to define it more objectively in purely financial terms, then this is an absolute disaster for SISU too. They are going to lose money hand-over-fist for the next 3-5 years, and then have to build a new stadium on top of those losses. ACL will lose money too, but at least they can crystallise their losses to £1.2m (or even £400k) a season, and have the potential to recoup those by redeveloping or reselling part or all of the real estate they're currently sitting on. As an investor, I know which of the two companies I'd rather have my money in.

And I can't see much to hold ACL to account for in this. They tried to negotiate, SISU clearly had an agenda other than just the rent. That should be even clearer given recent events.

I'm glad that I've misunderstood though, because I hadn't read anything from you that implied that you thought SISU had done anything other than played a blinder here, and that you were somehow tremendously satisified about that. Happy to be corrected.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I may not live in the environs of Coventry any more but it seems to me that the annoyance is with SISU and their decisions, it is in my case.

Oh it is. That's why I'm speculating about "in time". Maybe it will come to nothing, but I know that if I was a councillor who had a hand in this saga, I'd be pretty worried about the prospect of team-less stadium and that mortgage at a time of cuts.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

You gloat in your sisu 'victory'

counting your chickens springs to mind

What are you taking?

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Last I saw, Hoffman had a way of allowing SISU to stay at the Ricoh rent-free. That looks like 'something to offer' to me.

Offering a loan and the burden of an external creditor for money that SISU themselves can afford? It is no kind of an offer.

I would've thought anyone with a brain would be pissed off by recent events. If you're determining victory by smugness quotient, then Fisher's a nailed on winner.

Redundant comments.

Leaving the rhetoric aside, if you want to define it in more objectively in purely financial terms, then this is an absolute disaster for SISU too. They are going to lose money hand-over-fist for the next 3-5 years, and then have to build a new stadium on top of those losses.

You think so? I'd bet on SISU having a plan to make their money. They are currently doing everything on their terms, including moving the club out of the city. We should be fearful and, yes, respect what they are capable of. To fail to do so would be criminally negligent.

ACL will lose money too, but at least they can crystallise their losses to £1.2m (or even £400k) a season, and have the potential to recoup those by redeveloping or reselling part or all of the real estate they're currently sitting on. As an investor, I know which of the two companies I'd rather have my money in.

Perhaps. We'll see.

And I can't see much to hold ACL to account for in this. They tried to negotiate, SISU clearly had an agenda other than just the rent. That should be even clearer given recent events.

The council bought up the stadium's mortgage. People were celebrating the move at the time. Now it looks like the stadium could be without the club and the taxpayer could be left with a hefty bill. Again, we will see.

I'm glad that I've misunderstood though, because I hadn't read anything from you that implied that you thought SISU had done anything other than played a blinder here, and that you were somehow tremendously satisified about that. Happy to be corrected.

Good.

 

[duffer]

Oh it is. That's why I'm speculating about "in time". Maybe it will come to nothing, but I know that if I was a councillor who had a hand in this saga, I'd be pretty worried about the prospect of team-less stadium and that mortgage at a time of cuts.

I'm speculating too - but I think there would have been a far bigger outcry if they let SISU distress ACL into handing the Arena over for peanuts.

However if I was the director of a company that had managed to blow £30-60m of my investors' funds, alienated the vast majority of my remaining customers, have no prospect of returning to profit in the short to medium term, and had people using words like 'fraud' in parliament, then I'd be genuinely nervous.

 

[James Smith]

Oh it is. That's why I'm speculating about "in time". Maybe it will come to nothing, but I know that if I was a councillor who had a hand in this saga, I'd be pretty worried about the prospect of team-less stadium and that mortgage at a time of cuts.

But ACL isn't £70M in debt last time I saw someone walk us through their accounts, they've got cash in the bank and better than average loan rates on the mortgage. Now the SISU companies involved in this on the other hand have got vast debts (from somewhere) and are currently taking ACL/the council to court over their loan deal, calling it illegal state aid.

Now it doesn't strike me as a clever thing to do to annoy one set of landlords with a rent boycott so much so that you piss of one of the shareholders and they vow never to sell you the lease. And then to potentially piss off the second landlords (NTFC) by going after the first calling the council loan state aid when the second landlords are getting a similar deal from their council.

Also under FFP we need all the revenue we can get which is why it is particularly odd that we're moving 30 odd miles outside of our home in Coventry to a smaller stadium. In the process alienating a lot of the fans who just so happen to be customers, vital to the revenue we need under FFP.

 

[duffer]

Offering a loan and the burden of an external creditor for money that SISU themselves can afford? It is no kind of an offer.

How is it a loan. The offer is to play for free, and returns money to SISU. If they can afford it then why don't they pay?

Redundant comments.

About as redundant as your 'who's the most pissed off' measure.

You think so? I'd bet on SISU having a plan to make their money. They are currently doing everything on their terms, including moving the club out of the city. We should be fearful and, yes, respect what they are capable of. To fail to do so would be criminally negligent.

I don't think they're doing it on their terms at all. They were pushed into admin, and seemingly have failed to distress ACL into a fire sale of the arena. They've managed to avoid handing the club over for now, certainly, but if you can see any way they're making money in the next five years then you're doing better than me. I am nervous about what they are capable of, but not respectful. In every measurable way, their running of this club has been a disaster for both them and us. They clearly are not that clever.

The council bought up the stadium's mortgage. People were celebrating the move at the time. Now it looks like the stadium could be without the club and the taxpayer could be left with a hefty bill. Again, we will see.

Made the point here already, ultimately the mortgage is tied to the property, and the property has value with or without the club. The taxpayer has a better chance of getting their money back with council control of the asset, than it would had it ended up in SISU's hands for bugger all.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

But ACL isn't £70M in debt last time I saw someone walk us through their accounts, they've got cash in the bank and better than average loan rates on the mortgage. Now the SISU companies involved in this on the other hand have got vast debts (from somewhere) and are currently taking ACL/the council to court over their loan deal, calling it illegal state aid.

In which case the council has nothing to worry about and SISU will fold.

We'll see.

Now it doesn't strike me as a clever thing to do to annoy one set of landlords with a rent boycott so much so that you piss of one of the shareholders and they vow never to sell you the lease. And then to potentially piss off the second landlords (NTFC) by going after the first calling the council loan state aid when the second landlords are getting a similar deal from their council.

Meh. The deal has been agreed.

Also under FFP we need all the revenue we can get which is why it is particularly odd that we're moving 30 odd miles outside of our home in Coventry to a smaller stadium. In the process alienating a lot of the fans who just so happen to be customers, vital to the revenue we need under FFP.

I'll bet on SISU's accountants figuring out a way around that.