ACL Statement (8 Viewers)

[simple_simon]

OSB58
What do you think will happen now?

 

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[CarpyCov84]

Great post oldskyblue

 

[deanocity3]

As I said earlier Sisu knew exactly what they were doing when they moved every thing from LTD to holdings and never told FL

 

[CarpyCov84]

Surely this is fraud ??? Creditors will have lost out on a lot of money and the football league couldn't of known about this as their administrator hasn't done his job property as this would of came up ??? Old sky blue do you think the football league will now have to take action of this it's gonna end up a mess on their hands also now ???

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Just to spell it out as to the point ACL are making

130 years ago the football club was born.It was incorporated in one single company known as "The Coventry City Football Club Ltd"

In 1995 that company was split in to two CCFC Ltd and CCFCH Ltd. CCFC Ltd acquired the trade of being the football club known as CCFC. That included player registrations and the golden share in CCFC Ltd not CCFC H. That is confirmed in the company Memorandum & Articles

19/02/08 SISU took over the club following due diligence by their accountants BDO. The structure and purpose of CCFC Ltd and CCFC H Ltd remained as set up in 1995

The minutes disclosed on 200% blog show that the directors and representatives of SISU reviewed that basis, seemingly agreed to keep that basis and were aware of what assets were where (ie player contracts and golden share in CCFC Ltd), In fact one of the documents clearly states exactly that and not only that indicates that such a set up was how they would continue to operate from 2008 onwards.

Clearly accounts audited by BDO were prepared on exactly that basis until 31/05/11 signed off June 2012. The administrator even indicated that basis in his first report for 2012 figures. In deed if the share or player registrations or contracts were to be in any other company or entity it would require a formal request from the company to and written authority from the Football League (per their regulations). It also implicitly confirms that the directors and owners knew that those items were in CCFC Ltd from 2008 onwards

fast forward to 2013 apparently the contracts are no longer in CCFC Ltd and the golden share is nowhere to be found. Yet the directors and owners knew exactly where they were in 2008, knew that the golden share required the registrations and contracts to rest with it.

the details in 2008 have relevance to to 2013 because unless there was written authority from the FL then the players, trade and golden share should be in CCFC Ltd.

some questions
- is there authority from FL at any time since 2008 to transfer the players to CCFC H ?
- If there was no authority who was complicit intentionally or not in the splitting of the players contracts from golden share (a key to the success of the SISU plan) ?
- if no authority then the Football League could be seen to being part of a scheme that prejudices the rights of the creditors of CCFC so did they know?
- could all this be viewed as a scheme by the owners to remove assets to the detriment of creditors?
- Is the administrator aware of these directors minutes and what was the reasoning of any actions he took or did not take in relation to them?

there are many other questions

In Summary
the 2008 minutes may well be important if they prove the directors of the SBS&L group companies knew in 2008 that the football share, players and trade were in CCFC Ltd and that there was no authority from the FL to trade the Club by another entity since that time. Which could mean that assets have been transferred out and not included in the administration and the administration process is therefore flawed. So yes the minutes could well relate to the events in 2013.

Have SISU relied on a flawed registration system at the Football League? - which could leave the Football League open to some serious questions about their governance and some hefty financial liabilities.
Did the people involved know what they were doing?
Did the administrator follow any of this information through?
If that was the case is the decision to give Otium the share valid?

It could lead to some very serious consequences if the ACL view is correct. Would guess this will need to be decided in court

Just to be clear this is what I understand is the ACL thinking in this. I am not making any allegations against any party involved

Thanks very interesting.
The question is how to get a response from any of these parties.
Who would be taken to court?

Why can't The Telegraph put these questions to Appleton. Alun Thorne, Les Reid are you out here?

 

[oldskyblue58]

OSB58
What do you think will happen now?

Think there will be more legal cases on both sides...... I wouldn't want to be the auditors signing off accounts on that basis..... The Football League could be under intense scrutiny of their governance...... if accounts not filed for the SBS&L group of companies then embargo stays (can the auditors sign off if share ownership disputed ? )

The team will struggle ...... they are good young lads but they need depth in the squad and some experience..... CCFC will play at Sixfields it is not certain they will come back to the Ricoh despite what some say

The lawyers will make thousands ....... the media will continue to put out mistake ridden articles..... folk here will continue to bicker and spin (some with ridiculous claims of knowing).....

The fans continue to suffer..

( I hate writing all that but I do not see much that is positive in all this )

 

[CarpyCov84]

I would say les Reid etc would be onto this come Mondays papers

 

[cloughie]

What a thick boring person you are.

Thick beyond belief

 

[lordsummerisle]

Page 5 of that document talks about an intention to shut the academy down altogether in the medium term-was Ranson really that incompetent?

Yes.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Surely this is fraud ??? Creditors will have lost out on a lot of money and the football league couldn't of known about this as their administrator hasn't done his job property as this would of came up ??? Old sky blue do you think the football league will now have to take action of this it's gonna end up a mess on their hands also now ???

cant and wont make such allegations because i have no evidence, but you could look at it that way. Only a court can judge however. The Football League could end up with bigger problems than CCFC

 

[skybluehugh]

Skybluerevolution (Pt2) ACL DID NOT put CCFCltd into Administration.

Kid, don't bite. No matter what statement was put out the fans of our owners would slag it off. they do not want true debate because when their arguments are challenged they just do not stand up and so they resort to name calling just to stifle any threads that show they are wrong rather than try and win the debate with proof of why their views are right.

 

[CarpyCov84]

I think had administrator Paul Appleton done his job properly this would of came up sooner and we would of had a different outcome it's obvious what's gone on and who's done what...the football league employs Paul Appleton...

I think his days are numbered !!!

 

[Snozz_is_god]

Great write up osb58, about sums it all up.

I believe when ACL applied to the High Court to put CCFC Ltd into administration in March, 2013, they did so fully believing the players a registrations, golden share and lease were all in CCFCLtd.

The shifting of the players assets for me is the key piece of information we have never been told about, the football league don't want to answer this question, neither do the football club or the administrator. What are they hiding?

I think this it's the key bringing SISU down and I think the football leagues silence suggest to me negligence.

 

[skybluehugh]

after a statement like this it seems apaprent ACL dont want city at ricoh anytime soon

Could you please expand on this because that is not how I read it. And no I'm not reading it through ACL tinted glasses

 

[oldskyblue58]

Thanks very interesting.
The question is how to get a response from any of these parties.
Who would be taken to court?

Why can't The Telegraph put these questions to Appleton. Alun Thorne, Les Reid are you out here?

Could be the companies in the SBS&L group, its directors or shadow directors, the owners, the football league to name a few that could end up in court facing ACL

This whole thing is not going away ..... hopefully the football season will distract us fans

 

[skybluehugh]

Kid, don't bite. No matter what statement was put out the fans of our owners would slag it off. they do not want true debate because when their arguments are challenged they just do not stand up and so they resort to name calling just to stifle any threads that show they are wrong rather than try and win the debate with proof of why their views are right.

Revaluation, this was NOT aimed at you but at all the other people who try to sniffle people's views on our owners that do not agree with them. And I think SBK would accept that he can have a tendency to allow them to get o him. As I do no certain days.

 

[TrakiaPlovdiv]

Hang on a minute........Why is Joy there at the meeting.........She is neither a Director of CCFC Ltd or CCFC (Holdings Ltd) so should have no right to make any type of threat or contribution at any meeting!

I must be missing something because I thought it was a breach of Football League Rules for any 'Third Party Ownership'.

???????????????????????????????????????

 

[Snozz_is_god]

[h=1]http://www.sfo.gov.uk/fraud/what-is-fraud/corporate-fraud/asset-stripping.aspx

Asset stripping[/h] What is asset stripping?
Asset stripping is taking company funds or assets of value while leaving behind the debts.
Company directors transfer only the assets of one company to another and not the liabilities. The result is a dormant company with large liabilities that cannot be met and it has to be put into liquidation
Stripping of company assets is normally done for two main reasons:

• The fraudsters deliberately target a company or companies to take ownership, move the assets and then put the stripped entity into liquidation
• "Phoenixing" - directors move assets from one limited company to another to 'secure' the benefits of their business and avoid the liabilities. Most or all the directors will usually be the same in both companies. This usually arises as a way of 'rescuing' the assets of a failing business rather than targeting a company

 

[Johnnythespider]

Do you remember back in march when acl filed for admin and sisu got in first, pwkh said at the time that this would have serious ramifications, well i think it's just started. IMO this is going to be much bigger than just ccfc, this is going to affect all football in this country and to be honest it is long overdue. I think we can expect to see parliament getting involved in this, how nice would it be to see the F.L chairman squirming in front of a parliamentary committee.

 

[Snozz_is_god]

If if if if SISU moved the players from CCFCLtd to CCFCHolding, deliberately to put CCFCLtd into administration, to get rid of debts & the Ricoh lease, then it's asset stripping and fraud

 

[skybluehugh]

Great write up osb58, about sums it all up.

I believe when ACL applied to the High Court to put CCFC Ltd into administration in March, 2013, they did so fully believing the players a registrations, golden share and lease were all in CCFCLtd.

The shifting of the players assets for me is the key piece of information we have never been told about, the football league don't want to answer this question, neither do the football club or the administrator. What are they hiding?
I think this it's the key bringing SISU down and I think the football leagues silence suggest to me negligence.

I agree especially with the 2nd para. When ACL caught SISU out by going for administration, they had to move much faster than they planned and rushed us into admin themselves, so they had control over the Administrator selection. Because they new about the split of players and GS. And they have been caught out by ACL not signing the CVA, after weeks of threats of, and finally having to do it to after all their bluster, moving us to Northampton. If ACL had signed the CVA then none of this would have been revealed, which is what sisu was after in the first place so it has blown up in their faces.

 

[Snozz_is_god]

If this is what happening and I use the word if, it's asset stripping and is fraudulent (notice the word if, it's only my thoughts, I'm not accusing anyone)

But how can we make the authorities, sit up, take notice and investigate this.

 

[Ripbuster]

Say for example - The football league,in the last say 12 months or so had failed to spot a slight oversight in which company was going to be running the team competing in their leaugue.

Would they be willing to admit their mistake? or would they be inclined to go with "they've got us this time but we'll keep a close eye on them" type attitude?

 

[skybluehugh]

Hang on a minute........Why is Joy there at the meeting.........She is neither a Director of CCFC Ltd or CCFC (Holdings Ltd) so should have no right to make any type of threat or contribution at any meeting!

I must be missing something because I thought it was a breach of Football League Rules for any 'Third Party Ownership'.

???????????????????????????????????????

That is a well spotted flaw in all this. Why was she there but more important is why did ACL allow her to be? And why is it only coming out now? First time I have questioned any of ACL's dicision.

 

[duffer]

Hang on a minute........Why is Joy there at the meeting.........She is neither a Director of CCFC Ltd or CCFC (Holdings Ltd) so should have no right to make any type of threat or contribution at any meeting!

I must be missing something because I thought it was a breach of Football League Rules for any 'Third Party Ownership'.

???????????????????????????????????????

I don't think it's third-party ownership - but it's even more evidence that she's a 'shadow director'. HMRC definition, below.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/insmanual/ins44133.htm

"It should be remembered that acting as a shadow director is not an offence in itself (unless the person is an undischarged bankrupt or disqualified from being a director INS44147). But the existence of a shadow director is a risk indicator. It raises the suspicion that the shadow director is attempting to conceal something by managing the company but not being listed as one of its directors."

The real significance of this (imho) is her possible personal liabilty for anything that might have been done whilst she's been in this role. Like, for example, below value transfer of assets.

 

[Snozz_is_god]

I agree especially with the 2nd para. When ACL caught SISU out by going for administration, they had to move much faster than they planned and rushed us into admin themselves, so they had control over the Administrator selection. Because they new about the split of players and GS. And they have been caught out by ACL not signing the CVA, after weeks of threats of, and finally having to do it to after all their bluster, moving us to Northampton. If ACL had signed the CVA then none of this would have been revealed, which is what sisu was after in the first place so it has blown up in their faces.

EXACTLY and probably why Richard Keys was on about ACL having out maneuvered SISU. oh god I hope so, please be true

 

[wes_cov]

My biggest concern is ACL having deep enough pockets to escalate this properly! May be this is what SISU is counting on?

 

[Bennets Afro]

Maybe ACL have some backers who will fund the legal costs if it gets rid of SISU

 

[SkyblueBazza]

cant and wont make such allegations because i have no evidence, but you could look at it that way. Only a court can judge however. The Football League could end up with bigger problems than CCFC

Was a great post clarifying a few things (again) somewhat. One additional question it raises for me is since GH & JE were present - why have they not done or said anything about all this? Another is who exactly will take legal action about this???
If it is shown there was any wrongdoing...would it be a case of: GH & JE are possibly implicated by association & I guess would want no part in it; The FL could be implicated by negligent practices; Auditors for at some point (I'm guessing) signing off incorrect accounts; Owners of CCFC Ltd &/or Holdings for some sort of fraud maybe; PA for trying to hide it &/or cheating so to speak in his administration duties...thus leaving everyone (except the fans) involved taking a sharp intake of breath, stop their slanging matches, shutting-up...& finally sweeping the whole sorry mess under the carpet?
This might be a case of ACL yet playing a few trump cards & saving the day (& themselves) - they appear to be the only ones left with nothing to lose.

 

[skybluehugh]

My biggest concern is ACL having deep enough pockets to escalate this properly! May be this is what SISU is counting on?

Agreed, ACL have already had to lay a small fortune on fighting them. Wonder if that is why they said about City fans asking more questions on certain points. Hope not.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Agreed, ACL have already had to lay a small fortune on fighting them. Wonder if that is why they said about City fans asking more questions on certain points. Hope not.

Or maybe PH4 mtgs there were discussions about him supporting them if they can convince his legal team that the case is pretty water-tight?

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

Only just seen this statement. VERY interesting:

"It is interesting to note Mr Fisher’s failure to mention Ms Seppala’s verbal statement during this meeting, made in the presence of her own lawyers that the only circumstance in which the Club would return to the Ricoh would be upon SISU assuming full ownership of the venue without any negotiation on purchase price.

"Ms Seppala also stated at this meeting her intention to continue to threaten ACL and its shareholders with expensive litigation at every possible opportunity. Perhaps the fact that Mr Fisher was not himself present at this meeting has distorted his view of what was really discussed."


As if we needed further proof of this evil bitch's crazy plans.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Only just seen this statement. VERY interesting:

"It is interesting to note Mr Fisher’s failure to mention Ms Seppala’s verbal statement during this meeting, made in the presence of her own lawyers that the only circumstance in which the Club would return to the Ricoh would be upon SISU assuming full ownership of the venue without any negotiation on purchase price.

"Ms Seppala also stated at this meeting her intention to continue to threaten ACL and its shareholders with expensive litigation at every possible opportunity. Perhaps the fact that Mr Fisher was not himself present at this meeting has distorted his view of what was really discussed."


As if we needed further proof of this evil bitch's crazy plans.

In fairness - PWKH statements cannot be taken as proof. They are statements to be either believed or not, disputed or not, proven or not.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

In fairness - PWKH statements cannot be taken as proof. They are statements to be either believed or not, disputed or not, proven or not.

That bit was specifically denied by Labovich too.

Doesn't make Labovich right either of course, but once again it's one group's word against another's.

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

No smoke without fire - it's very likely she said something close to that.

Past court documents suggesting she is a liar and, frankly, heading up an asset stripping venture capitalist itself, makes it all seem very plausible.

Let's face it. You'd have to be a cold hearted bitch to disregard the feelings of tens of thousands for your own benefit and to spite others.

It's a no brainier.