Peter Knatchbull-Hugessen (12 Viewers)

[RoboCCFC90]

Do you really think that the football club will own the ricoh?? Never in a million years will it if sisu were to get there filthy hands on it. Itll be separated from the club as soon as they get their hands on it,sisu will probably charge ccfc 2 million a season in rent,infact sell it them and lets sit back and watch what happens.

Finally.

 

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[The Penguin]

Where's the quick fire sale players that everyone was expecting or us selling Leon Clarke that there was a 23 page long thread about yesterday? No where they aren't going. Sub you quoted it this morning from Greg Clarke "Years for come" was what he said about the SISU funding. This won't end, unless someone like PWKH is the catalyst for change and talks to CCC and the board members of ACL, this goes past a Football Club, CCFC needs to return to the Ricoh, whatever the cost.

Yep, there may not be any sale of players; hopefully the rest of the bomb squad can be moved on quickly and we don't need to lose them. Still time in the window though, so I wouldn't make any conclusions about them not going anywhere just yet.

Finally, even if (and it's a big if) CCC and ACL show a willingness to reasonably negotiate, that doesn't mean SISU will. "100%, no negotiation on the purchase price" is allegedly their current position on the Ricoh. No room to move there, it seems....

I'm not trying to invalidate your very reasonable position. I agree with you that stances need to be relaxed. However, that applies to both sides.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Yep, there may not be any sale of players; hopefully the rest of the bomb squad can be moved on quickly and we don't need to lose them. Still time in the window though, so I wouldn't make any conclusions about them not going anywhere just yet.

Finally, even if (and it's a big if) CCC and ACL show a willingness to reasonably negotiate, that doesn't mean SISU will. "100%, no negotiation on the purchase price" is allegedly their current position on the Ricoh. No room to move there, it seems....

I'm not trying to invalidate your very reasonable position. I agree with you that stances need to be relaxed. However, that applies to both sides.

I agree Penguin, I am not saying that SISU are exempt from this, but the tweet from Nikki Sinclaire yesterday showing that SISU are willing to meet, but the Council aren't? They all need someone to mediate a deal and bang their fookin heads together.

 

[The Penguin]

If SISU are not interested in a 50% stake in ACL, why did they negotiate a deal to buy 50% of ACL just last December?

And further to that, why was the deal scuppered? Did SISU pull out or did CCC veto the deal?

IIRC, the public statements on this issue are polar opposites.

 

[The Penguin]

I agree Penguin, I am not saying that SISU are exempt from this, but the tweet from Nikki Sinclaire yesterday showing that SISU are willing to meet, but the Council aren't? They all need someone to mediate a deal and bang their fookin heads together.

I'm happy to volunteer, if the club can pay to fly me over

 

[Sisued]

There isn't much i recognise about this club anymore. There is no connection with the community, the history, ex players, all of the early season traditions ruined, the question is are we dead already? The fans are the only ones left with the beating heart of the club it seems and we have polarising opinions.

It's too depressing for words

 

[CCFCDan87]

If your wife cheated on you time n time again would you just forgive and forget? No

SISU can fuck right off in my eyes. Since they've came in just caused heartache. we need to start our own team now, CCFC will be in the blue square before we know so doesn't make much difference least we'd be playing in Coventry

 

[WiganSkyBlue]

If SISU had been half way reasonable, i'd probably agree Robo, but seeing as they've acted so appallingly, i find myself feeling MORE stubborn and MORE intransigent, knowing that their intention is to be so unreasonable, that we'll eventually give in.

And this is why each and every sky blue supporter should learn from SISU and be equally as intransigent and stubborn and stay away from Northampton, imo.

 

[valiant15]

Theres 300k+ people who live in this city,most of them tax payers. Should they not have a say in what happens to the arena or is it just up to a tiny percentage or 10k football fans??

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I'm happy to volunteer, if the club can pay to fly me over

I'll do it for free!!

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Theres 300k+ people who live in this city,most of them tax payers. Should they not have a say in what happens to the arena or is it just up to a tiny percentage or 10k football fans??

Let them because I bet they'd say hand it over to CCFC.

 

[vRS19TD]

Do you really think that the football club will own the ricoh?? Never in a million years will it if sisu were to get there filthy hands on it. Itll be separated from the club as soon as they get their hands on it,sisu will probably charge ccfc 2 million a season in rent

Exactly what i said a few weeks ago. I could even see SISU getting their hands on the Ricoh, selling CCFC but not the stadium and then telling the new owners to find somewhere rlse to play!!
I'd rather ACL sold to Preston Haskell and not the blood sucking SISU!!

 

[Dhinsa's_Millions]

I really would take Nikki Sinclaire's tweets with a pinch of salt. She has latched on to this crusade to help her ailing political career (self publiscist). She was previously in UKIP and expelled from UKIP. I'm not quite sure why anyone would want to get round the table with someone who's point of view changes on a weekly basis.

 

[theferret]

And further to that, why was the deal scuppered? Did SISU pull out or did CCC veto the deal?

IIRC, the public statements on this issue are polar opposites.

You recall incorrectly. The deal was scuppered by the council when they stepped in with their £14 million bailout - up until that point, SISU were offering to settle the mortgage in return for a 50% stake (with CCC retaining the freehold). As for public statements, there has never been one from ACL or the Council on this issue i.e. no attempt have ever been made to dismiss SISU's version of what happened.

 

[James Smith]

It also isn't just up to the higgs is it?

No PWKH has said that the council can - but haven't yet as there hasn't been a sale - veto it.

 

[The Penguin]

You recall incorrectly. The deal was scuppered by the council when they stepped in with their £14 million bailout - up until that point, SISU were offering to settle the mortgage in return for a 50% stake (with CCC retaining the freehold). As for public statements, there has never been one from ACL or the Council on this issue i.e. no attempt have ever been made to dismiss SISU's version of what happened.

Ah. Maybe I'm confusing it with the 'heads of terms/handshake' incident. Too many bloody negotiations and alleged deals to keep track of.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[andyboy81]

Can I ask a question.....

Why is it that ACL making money is ok however for SISU to own the Ricoh and break even in the short term from month to month (not even talking about a return on their investment) is totally out of order??

 

[James Smith]

Dear Peter,

Somewhat better known on this forum as PWKH, I have not seen you post for a while, maybe this is due to the current situation surronding the Ricoh Arena, but as a board member of ACL and someone at the heart of this situation I ask you one thing:

Do what is right and sell a 50% stake in the Ricoh Arena too Otium Entertainment Ltd (SISU). This will not be a popular post, but the stand-off between ACL/CCC and SISU has gone on for long enough. I am not a doubter that yourself, other members of ACL and senior members of the Council, have the best interets of the people of Coventry at heart, however as I can see it there is a heavy dark cloud lingering over the City and something needs to happen to lift the spirits again.

This dark cloud is a aspect of the City that we all live for, it brings us joy, it brings us sorrow, we make friends, it keeps local business alive, people of the City in employment and most importantly different generations of the public gather all for one purpose to see the Sky Blues playing Football at the Ricoh Arena and before this at Highfield Road.

The past is complex, misleading and painful, however it only takes one person to make sure that this sorry story ends and once again the people of Coventry can support a Football Club which we all hold so dear.

People have talked about a Phoenix Club, an AFC Coventry if you will, but no one wants this without all the avenues of keeping CCFC in existence being explored.

The time for finger pointing is through can we please now have some resolution for us all.

The problem as I understand it is that the Higgs can't just sell at any price to SISU they have to get a fair returnon their investment or the Charity Comission would crucify them. Who'd like to bet that SISU didn't have anything like that amount for half of ACL and that's why they walked away after agreeing heads of terms with the Higgs whenever that was. If as some of us on here reckon the price offered by Joy for the return of the club to the Ricoh (with her getting the freehold) was £5m then that isn't even what the Higgs gave the club in the first place.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Yes they do every Football Club needs all it's revenues it can to survive that's the reason we moved from Highfield Road, because we weren't benefitting enough and needed more.

can I ask you to think about that bit ....... does the club need to own the stadium to have access to all its income streams ? Why not buy or earn out those income streams.

Who is it that needs to make a capital profit on the stadium? ....... wouldnt be the football club because it would never want to sell it

If the Otium owned the stadium then the first thing they would do is to put a charge over it to secure the ARVO/SISU loans so it wouldnt be used to raise external 3rd party finance (not that it should be anyway in my opinion). Would probably be covered by the new charge indicated by Company House that has been taken out against Otium already in any case.

Yes the football club needs greater income but to own the stadium no thats not necessary at all. It (outright ownership) is however the only thing SISU are after at the Ricoh

Impasse is because one side wants to buy the freehold only and the other side is only offering a tenancy right now

 

[theferret]

Ah. Maybe I'm confusing it with the 'heads of terms/handshake' incident. Too many bloody negotiations and alleged deals to keep track of.

Thanks for the clarification.

It's OK, and for the record, I blame SISU for pretty much everything that has happened since that point (just getting that in before somebody labels me a SISUist or something).

I do see that moment as pivotal though, and think the council made a huge mistake at that point. No going back though, and some may argue that SISU's actions since vindicate that decision. I'm not so sure, and think the deal on the table at that point was a good one and should have been approved, and by doing them over, the council released a monster.

 

[The Penguin]

Can I ask a question.....

Why is it that ACL making money is ok however for SISU to own the Ricoh and break even in the short term from month to month (not even talking about a return on their investment) is totally out of order??

Reasonable question.

You could argue that any money ACL make is put back into the community in some way, while any money SISU (not CCFC) make is sent to the Cayman Islands.

Personally the only body in this whole mess I care about making money is CCFC.

 

[thaiskyblue]

Dear Peter,

Somewhat better known on this forum as PWKH, I have not seen you post for a while, maybe this is due to the current situation surronding the Ricoh Arena, but as a board member of ACL and someone at the heart of this situation I ask you one thing:

Do what is right and sell a 50% stake in the Ricoh Arena too Otium Entertainment Ltd (SISU). This will not be a popular post, but the stand-off between ACL/CCC and SISU has gone on for long enough. I am not a doubter that yourself, other members of ACL and senior members of the Council, have the best interets of the people of Coventry at heart, however as I can see it there is a heavy dark cloud lingering over the City and something needs to happen to lift the spirits again.

This dark cloud is a aspect of the City that we all live for, it brings us joy, it brings us sorrow, we make friends, it keeps local business alive, people of the City in employment and most importantly different generations of the public gather all for one purpose to see the Sky Blues playing Football at the Ricoh Arena and before this at Highfield Road.

The past is complex, misleading and painful, however it only takes one person to make sure that this sorry story ends and once again the people of Coventry can support a Football Club which we all hold so dear.

People have talked about a Phoenix Club, an AFC Coventry if you will, but no one wants this without all the avenues of keeping CCFC in existence being explored.

The time for finger pointing is through can we please now have some resolution for us all.

never sisu are parasites with no interest in ccfc, how much more proof do you require
NOPM, SISU OUT, PUSB !

 

[theferret]

Reasonable question.

You could argue that any money ACL make is put back into the community in some way, while any money SISU (not CCFC) make is sent to the Cayman Islands.

Personally the only body in this whole mess I care about making money is CCFC.

No dividends have been paid though as we know, and any profits have been reinvested to improve facilities. There is no reason to suggest that SISU would not do the same - because this reinvestment is key to making money in the first place - and everyone seems to think that is all SISU are about. I'm interested that SISU have always said they would bring in external events management experts to run the facility. I guess that doesn't sit well with ACL employees who have a vested interest in keeping their job - even if they are not very good at it.

 

[Dhinsa's_Millions]

Its all about the Arena for SISU. Most of the reasons for lack of investment and the fall out with ACL are a smokescreen in my opinion. OSB is right there is an impasse - SISU need to make their mind up if they are willing to lose money for the next few years and are happy with that? A new stadium also makes absolutely no sense at all financially - everyone knows that.

It also doesnt make sense to keep up a stance that is losing money and getting nowhere. I don't think ACL will give them any share of the ground ever - The JR was SISU's hope they could get hold of the Ricoh on the cheap and now that has failed.

 

[shmmeee]

Does it really matter? We should all be entitled to make our choices without abuse or judgment.

Not taking either side but this is such a stupid argument. Just of to rape your mum, hope I'm entitled to make my choices without abuse or judgement.

Abuse and judgement is how humans show disapproval and enforce societal norms. They were invented for a reason: to make those outside of societal norms conform.

You have a right to an unpopular opinion, you don't have the right for your opinion to be welcomed.

 

[Godiva]

can I ask you to think about that bit ....... does the club need to own the stadium to have access to all its income streams ? Why not buy or earn out those income streams.

Who is it that needs to make a capital profit on the stadium? ....... wouldnt be the football club because it would never want to sell it

If the Otium owned the stadium then the first thing they would do is to put a charge over it to secure the ARVO/SISU loans so it wouldnt be used to raise external 3rd party finance (not that it should be anyway in my opinion). Would probably be covered by the new charge indicated by Company House that has been taken out against Otium already in any case.

Yes the football club needs greater income but to own the stadium no thats not necessary at all. It (outright ownership) is however the only thing SISU are after at the Ricoh

Impasse is because one side wants to buy the freehold only and the other side is only offering a tenancy right now

Have there ever been a statement from sisu/ccfc that they want the freehold? Or is it words from another stakeholder? Or leaked info from behind scene negotiations?
Wouldn't they be satisfied with 100% ownership of ACL and a 125 year lease?

About the charges over assets ... you make it sound as something evil. Isn't it simply to protect investments? And ... to some degree ... to protect against a hostile takeover?

 

[andyboy81]

Reasonable question.

You could argue that any money ACL make is put back into the community in some way, while any money SISU (not CCFC) make is sent to the Cayman Islands.

Personally the only body in this whole mess I care about making money is CCFC.

Do you think any profits that the Arsenal, Man United, e.t.c get reinvested back into the local community?? Fuck sake Arsenal have just released 20 odd players and not reinvested a single player yet -where do you think the offset of 15m - 20m in wages are going to go?? And that's not even looking at main income streams. In the owners and shareholders pockets.

Like it or not SISU are here to stay and without going over old ground too much HAVE invested in the team since they arrived with NO RETURN AT ALL. Have a look at the transfer history, granted not massive transfer fees but wages over a 3/4 year period have been paid - out of their pocket.

I can't see how people think they are going to take all the profit when there isn't any profits coming in..... breaking even would be a start!!

For CCFC to move forward -and despite all the bitching and moaning on here its what everyone wants - the club AND the stadium have to become one entity, surely we agree on this. Otherwise, we may as well give up now!

 

[RPHunt]

Yes the football club needs greater income but to own the stadium no thats not necessary at all.

Quite right, I suspect that most of the clubs in this country that "own" their stadiums have at least one charge over it.

Furthermore, most of the top 500 companies in this country don't own their head office - they lease. Rather than tie up money in bricks and mortar, it is used to invest in and grow their business.

 

[thaiskyblue]

do you think any profits that the arsenal, man united, e.t.c get reinvested back into the local community?? Fuck sake arsenal have just released 20 odd players and not reinvested a single player yet -where do you think the offset of 15m - 20m in wages are going to go?? And that's not even looking at main income streams. In the owners and shareholders pockets.

Like it or not sisu are here to stay and without going over old ground too much have invested in the team since they arrived with no return at all. Have a look at the transfer history, granted not massive transfer fees but wages over a 3/4 year period have been paid - out of their pocket.

I can't see how people think they are going to take all the profit when there isn't any profits coming in..... Breaking even would be a start!!

For ccfc to move forward -and despite all the bitching and moaning on here its what everyone wants - the club and the stadium have to become one entity, surely we agree on this. Otherwise, we may as well give up now!

we know that but not to blood suckers shitsu, wake up !

 

[Noggin]

Can I ask a question.....

Why is it that ACL making money is ok however for SISU to own the Ricoh and break even in the short term from month to month (not even talking about a return on their investment) is totally out of order??

No one has ever had a problem with SISU breaking even or even making a profit. Ridiculous question.

 

[Godiva]

No one has ever had a problem with SISU breaking even or even making a profit. Ridiculous question.

... as long as it's not a profit made by ccfc.

 

[Sky Blues]

Ah. Maybe I'm confusing it with the 'heads of terms/handshake' incident. Too many bloody negotiations and alleged deals to keep track of.

Thanks for the clarification.

The Coventry Telegraph reported on November 27th 2012, more than a month before the £14m council mortgage deal, that talks over buying the 50% stake had broken down.

The article said:

Meanwhile, Peter Knatchbull-Hugessen, clerk to the trustees of the Alan Edward Higgs Charity, said talks had now stalled with Sisu over a deal for its 50 per cent stake in ACL. He said: “The charity has an obligation to maximise its assets and it must consider any serious offer for its stake in Arena Coventry Limited, subject to the agreement of an acceptable price and accompanying terms.
“Sisu has never provided these, and no discussions are taking place at this time.”

 

[Noggin]

You recall incorrectly. The deal was scuppered by the council when they stepped in with their £14 million bailout - up until that point, SISU were offering to settle the mortgage in return for a 50% stake (with CCC retaining the freehold). As for public statements, there has never been one from ACL or the Council on this issue i.e. no attempt have ever been made to dismiss SISU's version of what happened.

Thats rubbish, SISU started the process of buying the Higgs share, heads of terms were agreed then the higgs didn't hear from them again, the bail out was something like 8 months later.

 

[andyboy81]

we know that but not to blood suckers shitsu, wake up !

If your going to make a statement like that at least explain yourself. Whats next..... "your mum!!"

 

[Noggin]

... as long as it's not a profit made by ccfc.

Thats rubbish too and you know it, what is it with people today?