how long do you think ccfc will be financially viable for otium/sisu? (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter intercity
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Deleted member 4232
Guest
About as long as this piece of string.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Christmas I think either back at Ricoh, liquidated or sold
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
Sell 1 x Cyrus Christie (fee undisclosed) = several months prolonged nonsense. Hope I'm wrong, The idiots should realise that they're down to their last few bits of silver, and they should be polishing it rather than selling it................Grrrrrrrrrr
Houchens Head
Fairly well known member from Malvern
8 minutes and 13 seconds! 
Who really knows after two good results i think they expected more than turned up for Preston, TF may have to do he sums again but seem keen and prepared to lose money for a few years!!.. The bigger question should be funding loses is one thing, but how do they plan to fund a new build as well as keep the team competitive and bring in new investors while losing money and fans during this period....No matter how much money you have throwing it away is a question TF will have to answer in the near future to more than just fans...
GaryPendrysEyes
Well-Known Member
Or is there any truth in the 'CCFC being used as a debt pit' theory???
I don't think the lack of income is too much of a concern for sisu. Their exit require they can sell up to regain their investments. They will either build a stadium or acquire ACL - and as ACL are protected against sisu by CCc, Higgs and many ccfc fans, sisu will have to build a stadium of their own.
But if they can secure a good piece of land in a good location there may be more profit for them long term building than taking over ACL.
Oh and before anyone says FFP - there are ways around the wage cap limit to offset lack of income.
But if they can secure a good piece of land in a good location there may be more profit for them long term building than taking over ACL.
Oh and before anyone says FFP - there are ways around the wage cap limit to offset lack of income.
Could you please explain that theory for me ... slowly and in layman terms, so I can understand how it's done and how sisu are making money on it?
ESB
New Member
Hope not, but that's my worry.
GaryPendrysEyes
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know how much Sisu are actually losing at the moment?
The game is obviously to distress ACL and get the Ricoh on the cheap, how long they can last depends on their current cash flow and liabilities. Obviously they can last longer the more fans go there.
Difficult to assess without access to recent accounts!
One for OldSkyblue....
The game is obviously to distress ACL and get the Ricoh on the cheap, how long they can last depends on their current cash flow and liabilities. Obviously they can last longer the more fans go there.
Difficult to assess without access to recent accounts!
One for OldSkyblue....
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
SISU A makes £10M
SISU B makes £15M
SISU C (CCFC) loses £25M (mostly fees paid to A and B)
Overall SISU made no money, so can offset tax 'owed' against A and B profits against losses incurred by CCFC.
However they are paying themselves nice little management fees out of these companies, so TF and Joy are alright, whilst CCFC stays in a pile of sh*te
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
It isn;t viable now, wasn't viable last season.
Skybluesquirrel
New Member
Apart from acquiring the Ricoh - totally agree. They have access to substantial funds, if they need. Their UK accounts recently published showed income in the millions - I would expect that the majority of their total income is put in the investment vehicles held off-shore and not recorded here. Its now just a question of when they want to go.
FFP regulations are as poorly written as the administration regs, so no problem there. I imagine judging by Clarke's remarks they have already gained an exemption within certain limitations.
Is that a 'debt-pit'? Is that how you think sisu dumps debt on the club?
Let me get that straight.
First they pump in between £20m and £30m.
Then they take out a couple of milions in directors salary.
Nope. Don't get it.
Yes, the FFP regulations are poorly written.
There are two easy options to offset low income:
1) Fund the clubs losses through equity increase ... issueing new shares.
2) Convert loans to equity.
When Otium file new accounts we should be able to see if they have taken that route.
Skybluesquirrel
New Member
FFP for Div One restricts the amount you are allowed to pay in wages to 60% of your income. Outside of that, points deductions.
It looks likely that the FL will view income as any money flowing into the club. If SISU put £4million in, as long as they convert it to shares, its OK.
What you can do is lend money to Holdings, who then lend money to Otium. The money in Otium is converted into shares. The money lent to Holdings isn't. The loan still remains and you by pass the regs.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Are you saying that Otium has a parent company then and is part of another group?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
You just completely ignored the pertinent opening lines of his statement to fit your argument. Par for the course.
Skybluesquirrel
New Member
Figures wise, if the income from ticket, sponsorship and food sales is £1 million a year, if the regs were applied properly you would only be able to spend £600,000 on wages.
However, if you include loans of £4 million you can then pay wages of £3 million (total 'income' jumps to £5m) and no points deductions.
I have never come across loans being considered as income in any normal line of business. Well done FL!
Happy to be corrected.
However, if you include loans of £4 million you can then pay wages of £3 million (total 'income' jumps to £5m) and no points deductions.
I have never come across loans being considered as income in any normal line of business. Well done FL!
Happy to be corrected.
Skybluesquirrel
New Member
Just for the record, its only my opinion, but hedge funds generally do have access.
Unsurprisingly I have never had any money invested in a hedge fund. I guess when you do you invest, your decision is based on the performance of the fund as a whole, without always knowing exactly what or who you are investing in.
I seem to recall the Church of England suddenly finding out they were major investors in Wonga, shortly after the Arch Bishop denounced them. Think also the Church may have also invested in BAE in its past, via a fund. If the Bishops didn't know, imagine thats a quite a common affair
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
With all due respect, I think you need to read up a bit on what hedge funds do. Their accounts are virtually irrelevant.
Two things.
You said in a previous post that failing to comply with FFP regulation will result in points deduction ... I think it's transfer embargo.
In the post I quote you say only 60% of equity increase counts in the FFP calculation ... I believe (happy to be corrected) that it is 100%, but with a cap of £4m per year.
Skybluesquirrel
New Member
Ive just managed to get access to the new series of Breaking Bad on line. So off to watch that. Not sure why
Will check tomorrow if no-one else comes up with any details. Could be transfer embargo, not points. Pretty certain on 60%. Think £4m is the equity limits.
Rich36raywoods
New Member
Why 2000 cov fans ventured to six field and support sisu is behond me
DazzleTommyDazzle
Well-Known Member
I believe that you are quite correct that the penalty for non-compliance with FFP is a transfer embargo.
As a deterrent it certainly worked well in ensuring that we always filed our accounts on time didn't it
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I believe that you are quite correct that the penalty for non-compliance with FFP is a transfer embargo.
As a deterrent it certainly worked well in ensuring that we always filed our accounts on time didn't it
In a general sense it does seem slightly absurd that the penalty is an embargo.
As surely if you've gone over the limit, one possible reason is you've signed all the players you wanted to, but really shouldn't have?!?
Anyway, FFP is daft full stop, just an excuse for bigger clubs to try and maintain their positions of dominance.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Last year TF was concerned about FFP affecting the standard of the team & blaming ACL over lack of matchday income.
This year apparently it doesn't matter because they can convert debt to equity to ignore the salary caps.
LOL.. well lets see them try build a stadium.. . they haven't got anywhere with purchasing land yet & getting planning permission ain't gonna be easy.
I don't believe they'll do it..they're relying on the fans & CCC cracking because they've stolen our football team from us.. it will take a while but the less income they have the sooner it will be that they'll give up.
GPE no doubt about it,your spot on.
blueflint
Well-Known Member
prove they put in 30mill they have put large consultancy fees in