The war is over, time for the peace treaty (12 Viewers)

[Ashdown1]

I remember the unfortunate thread now and I wrongly agreed with some comments about this delightful character:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUMEL36cHvk

Are you happy now !?

 

---

[hill83]

I remember the unfortunate thread now and I wrongly agreed with some comments about this delightful character:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUMEL36cHvk

Are you happy now !?

Yep. Group hug.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Godiva (original):
In the coming months we will most likely see and hear very little from the club owners - as usual.
But at the stadium side I expect quite a lot of activity. The stadium owners can surely not be happy with the outcome of this last battle with the club. They backed ACL's plan to replace sisu with new owners ... Hoffman/Elliott/Haskel the most promising prospects. So they took over the mortgage from YB - and in return got an invitation to visit the High Court to fight the legallity. They may have 'won' the first round there, but there may be more to come. And it doesn't look good when a council is summoned to a high court ... when there's smoke, there's bound to be fire somewhere.

Deleted member 5849:
Hmmm. Unfortunately isn't this he point of the JR application, to introduce an element of smoke without fire? Having been thrown out (note, an application to go before a proper hearing, so not even thrown out at the hearing's stage!) it's safe to say in this particular instance, there is no smoke.

Godiva (reply):
But the JR IS the smoke ... whether there was ever a fire remains to be seen. It may well be sisu's sole purpose just to send up smoke, but for somebody from the outside ... or even on this board in a year or two ... there will be this notion that there could possibly have been some kind of foul play. That uncertainty is a liability to involved politicians.

The Bear weighs in...
You're actually arguing against yourself here by admitting that Sisu's legal tactics are to discredit the Council rather than for any legitimate grievance.

Overall – and I don't want to make assumptions here so maybe you can put me right if needs be – you seem to be coming from a position that the business (in this case Sisu) approach is better than the democratic (the Council) approach. Without wanting to mini-Godwin this, possibly a Thatcherite/Libertarian view? Small government and allowing the invisible hand of the free market & all that?

Does anyone like purple prose?

 

[Paxman II]

Pax- we all want the football club back in Coventry- no doubt about it.

• Can we accept the football club back in Coventry with the current owners? I can- just about.
• Can the Otium regime be supported in their ludicrous business plan in taking the club to Northampton?- for me and clearly most-(supported by attendance figure reduction)- No- a bridge too far.
• Can I ever forgive them for their very clearly evidenced wrong doings and erosion of the football clubs status since their tenure?- Never.
• Can I rest easy in my bed safe in the knowledge of my football clubs future? Until they have gone- No

Move forward you say, do not have negative views you implore- you have an optimistic persona I grant you and am truly envious of it- convince me with reasoned argument as to why SISU(sorry Otium) are a good thing for CCFC- I am listening(reading) but come from a shadier more realistic side of the street or so it would appear.

I don't disagree with you King Power but with all due respect read over what I said again, it answer your question?
But without being pedantic I'm saying it is no longer a case of forgiving the past or the current situation but much more to do with accepting where we are at now. Once everyone just gets to grips with that reality (regardless of blame) we can hopefully try and put pressure on all sides in this continuing dispute to find a solution and as with Syria when you have one side determined to press ahead with without consensus then it will only get worse. It takes both sides to be at the table in order to get an agreement. The posturing must stop. That includes statements from both sides explaining their intent going forward. So if Otium truly do not want to come back to the Ricoh then lets here it and their future plan for a new stadium. If ACL/CC truly want the football club back asap then lets here it and how they think it can be done. Until both these babies stop having hissy fits and throwing the dummy out with the bath water we will get nowhere fast. The uncertainty and delay only causes more rumour and conjecture. It belittles the fans (which ever side you are on) and does absolutely nothing to enhance the football club. I sense there are a few last legal events to take place with crucial dates in the next few weeks ahead that have yet to be played out before we see very much of the common sense I suggest becoming evident.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

I don't disagree with you King Power but with all due respect read over what I said again, it answer your question?
But without being pedantic I'm saying it is no longer a case of forgiving the past or the current situation but much more to do with accepting where we are at now. Once everyone just gets to grips with that reality (regardless of blame) we can hopefully try and put pressure on all sides in this continuing dispute to find a solution and as with Syria when you have one side determined to press ahead with without consensus then it will only get worse. It takes both sides to be at the table in order to get an agreement. The posturing must stop. That includes statements from both sides explaining their intent going forward. So if Otium truly do not want to come back to the Ricoh then lets here it and their future plan for a new stadium. If ACL/CC truly want the football club back asap then lets here it and how they think it can be done. Until both these babies stop having hissy fits and throwing the dummy out with the bath water we will get nowhere fast. The uncertainty and delay only causes more rumour and conjecture. It belittles the fans (which ever side you are on) and does absolutely nothing to enhance the football club. I sense there are a few last legal events to take place with crucial dates in the next few weeks ahead that have yet to be played out before we see very much of the common sense I suggest becoming evident.

Sorry Pax- Consensus from both parties needed agreed, but I remain unconvinced of Otiums intentions and credibility to take my football club forward.

 

[skybluefred]

No calling him a wum is absolute bollocks.

Godiva is entitled to his opinion without getting a twatish comment that he is a WUM.

But Moff it's surely no worse than all of the foul language that seems to be the norm on this forum,your own included.

 

[skybluefred]

He made a reasonable post about where he believes the situation is at the moment. It's based on the respective positions of ACL and CCFC.

Are the following facts true or false?

ACL is now earning £1.2m p/a less than it was with a rent paying tenant

ACL is also earning significantly less in its partnership with Compass due to not staging a minimum of 23 football matches from August to May.

There is absolutely nobody other than CCFC would look to rent the Ricoh Arena and bring in the same level of footfall on a consistent basis.

As a purpose built football stadium, financed partly through public funding, the City Council will face a lot of scrutiny if that football stadium is not put to use, regardless of whether they are to blame or not.

ACL earned nothing from the unethical shower that own CCFC in the last year---they stopped paying the rent remember.

The earning potential of the Ricoh would be far in excess of that received from CCFC if a roof was put on, the pitch could be removed and conference and concert facilities provided. Why does anybody think sisu want to get ownership.
I really doubt it's for football reasons.

 

[Baginton]

I wish the Council would sell up and keep their noses out and stop foockin the club up, they have cost the club 20 points so far. how does this benfit the club? way too much say for someone who owns a bit of grass and concrete


SISU WANT TO MAKE A QUICK PROFIT, THEY SPECIALIZE IN TURNING SHITE COMPANIES INTO PROFITABLE ONES AND THEN LEAVE WMAKING THEMSLEVES A HEALTHY PROFIT - EVERYONES A WINNER


Keep backing the council and not the club and it will get worse and worse.

Get the club back to the Ricoh, that what we all want deep down... well, the owners and the fans.



PUSB

 

[Godiva]

ACL earned nothing from the unethical shower that own CCFC in the last year---they stopped paying the rent remember.

Someone else tried that argument in this thread.
But ...

Not strictly true, is it?
ACL emptied the escrow account for £500k and then got £530k from the administration. In addition they took the amount available on the clubs bank account at a given date - with the blessing of the court.

 

[skybluefred]

I wish the Council would sell up and keep their noses out and stop foockin the club up, they have cost the club 20 points so far. how does this benfit the club? way too much say for someone who owns a bit of grass and concrete


SISU WANT TO MAKE A QUICK PROFIT, THEY SPECIALIZE IN TURNING SHITE COMPANIES INTO PROFITABLE ONES AND THEN LEAVE WMAKING THEMSLEVES A HEALTHY PROFIT - EVERYONES A WINNER


Keep backing the council and not the club and it will get worse and worse.

Get the club back to the Ricoh, that what we all want deep down... well, the owners and the fans.



PUSB

The CCc and ACL have not cost the club any points in this saga it's all down to sisu. They put us into admin and the CVA
was rightly rejected by the tax man. You should be able to see the unethical way sisu go about business by their failure
to submit accounts on time. When and only when they leave our Club will any lasting progress be made.

 

[wince]

He made a reasonable post about where he believes the situation is at the moment. It's based on the respective positions of ACL and CCFC.

Are the following facts true or false?

ACL is now earning £1.2m p/a less than it was with a rent paying tenant

ACL is also earning significantly less in its partnership with Compass due to not staging a minimum of 23 football matches from August to May.

There is absolutely nobody other than CCFC would look to rent the Ricoh Arena and bring in the same level of footfall on a consistent basis.

As a purpose built football stadium, financed partly through public funding, the City Council will face a lot of scrutiny if that football stadium is not put to use, regardless of whether they are to blame or not.

Was at compass h q in chetsey on Wednesday and asked about the ricoh ,and was told they are making more money now without the football as it tied the venue up all day on a Saturday which in turn meant they could not use it for weekend events , didn't ask as a cov fan just had a conversation with a manager there

 

[Nick]

Was at compass h q in chetsey on Wednesday and asked about the ricoh ,and was told they are making more money now without the football as it tied the venue up all day on a Saturday which in turn meant they could not use it for weekend events , didn't ask as a cov fan just had a conversation with a manager there

What events have they had on?

 

[skybluefred]

Someone else tried that argument in this thread.
But ...

The fact the CCc had the common sense to insist on the escrow account as a safeguard is credit to them. Also the FL who
are no innocent party in this fiasco reccognised sisu's wrong doing by insisting they pay ACL the CVA amount.

 

[wince]

What events have they had on?

Don't known didn't ask them, the mrs is a manager for compass and was at head office for a course , I went for a freebee stayed in the hotel night before, mixed with other managers from around the country , the ricoh only came up once in conversation

 

[Godiva]

Was at compass h q in chetsey on Wednesday and asked about the ricoh ,and was told they are making more money now without the football as it tied the venue up all day on a Saturday which in turn meant they could not use it for weekend events , didn't ask as a cov fan just had a conversation with a manager there

If true and consistant over the entire season, then good for them. If this is true for most or at least the largest businesses at the Ricoh, then it kind of turns the situation upside down. Surely if they earn more with the club gone, they won't have us back?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Surely if they earn more with the club gone, they won't have us back?

That would be the sensible business option...

 

[deanocity3]

What events have they had on?

weddings,one on there today

 

[torchomatic]

weddings,one on there today

12000?

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Grendel]

12000?

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 2

Strange wedding food - Balti pie

 

[Johnnythespider]

Strange wedding food - Balti pie

Not really, it was an indian wedding

 

[Nick]

weddings,one on there today

Must have been expensive, I enquired about a kids party they wanted a tenner per head for nuggets and chips per kid and 500 for a little room!

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I don't know whether the information about Compass and how much money they are making is accurate, however I have no proof otherwise.

What does strike me about the whole Council Ownership is now after CCFC have pulled out of using the Arena there is now a meeting planned to discuss whether the Arena is a viable business asset going forward. I know the bloke from the Council (Can't remember his name) said it wasn't a great business even with CCFC as tenants however if that was the case why has it taken up until CCFC have left to discuss whether the Arena is financially viable?

Regarding the OP there hasn't been much in the way of a reasoned argument against Godiva's view just petty name calling. I think Godiva has put a good case forward.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

I wish the Council would sell up and keep their noses out and stop foockin the club up, they have cost the club 20 points so far. how does this benfit the club? way too much say for someone who owns a bit of grass and concrete


SISU WANT TO MAKE A QUICK PROFIT, THEY SPECIALIZE IN TURNING SHITE COMPANIES INTO PROFITABLE ONES AND THEN LEAVE WMAKING THEMSLEVES A HEALTHY PROFIT - EVERYONES A WINNER


Keep backing the council and not the club and it will get worse and worse.

Get the club back to the Ricoh, that what we all want deep down... well, the owners and the fans.



PUSB

If the owners really wanted to be at the Ricoh they would be. They have taken CCFC to Northampton with no business backed logic at all. They are and will continue to lose money as long as they adopt this crazy strategy......

 

[simple_simon]

If the owners really wanted to be at the Ricoh they would be. They have taken CCFC to Northampton with no business backed logic at all. They are and will continue to lose money as long as they adopt this crazy strategy......

Agreed, regardless of how many go to Sixfields, no business sense at all.

 

[Baginton]

They went to Northampton after failing to buy a share of the stadium, that was promised to them.

The club needs every single penny of income to fund the football club, to buy players to afford its own stadium (hopefully the Roch) ...To be sustainable

No business sense going, no business future staying.

 

[Astute]

They went to Northampton after failing to buy a share of the stadium, that was promised to them.

The club needs every single penny of income to fund the football club, to buy players to afford its own stadium (hopefully the Roch) ...To be sustainable

No business sense going, no business future staying.

Nothing was promised to them. There was a contract in place. They didn't want to give Higgs their money back though. They wanted the whole thing for 8m. Remember, that was what the judicial review was about.

 

[James Smith]

Nothing was promised to them. There was a contract in place. They didn't want to give Higgs their money back though. They wanted the whole thing for 8m. Remember, that was what the judicial review was about.

We don't actually know the genuine figure though do we? Now whilst I agree that such a figure is possible, any figures mentioned by people on here (with the exception of probably PWKH) are very likely to be pure guesswork.

 

[James Smith]

They went to Northampton after failing to buy a share of the stadium, that was promised to them.

The club needs every single penny of income to fund the football club, to buy players to afford its own stadium (hopefully the Roch) ...To be sustainable

No business sense going, no business future staying.

I agree that the club needs all the money it can get to make it sustainable, not sure anyone is really disputing that. Just find it a bit odd though that SISU who chose to bankroll the club for the next (at least) three years whilst our new home is built, are willing to spend more propping up the club by going to Sixfields than staying at the Ricoh and very probably enduring less financial pain.

 

[sisubgone]

ACL earned nothing from the unethical shower that own CCFC in the last year---they stopped paying the rent remember.

The earning potential of the Ricoh would be far in excess of that received from CCFC if a roof was put on, the pitch could be removed and conference and concert facilities provided. Why does anybody think sisu want to get ownership.
I really doubt it's for football reasons.

Spot on fred - I suspect once the premiership dream fell in tatters, they went for plan a - get the arena and make it an exhibition venue. The apologists keep making the lamest of cases - but it is so blatantly obvious I am frankly shocked people don't see it. I can only imagine it is for shock effect, as surely no one can possibly argue sisu have the best will of the club in mind after everything they have done surely not. They sound more and more like battered wives defending their husband day by day (Oh sisu didn't mean to take the club away from the fans TF is a nice guy if only you got to know him!)

Truth is compass are making more now without the club than with it! This is testament to ACL finally getting their act together and getting the most out of the venue! All you have to do is see what the NEC charge to realise the ricoh is a potential goldmine. Sisu are a hedge fund and hedge funds asset strip - that is how they make their money! Hedge funds don't want to hold on to an asset for any length of time they get it, they sell what they can, and then get rid of the company.

It was no coincidence that the real sell of of assets started as Ranson left. They gave up the dream of getting the premier league millions, so decided to asset strip. They kept telling us for years they were losing £500k/month - this didn't change even though players were sold and hence the outgoings reduced. This could only happen if they added additional charges or lied - you cannot reduce outgoings keep the income the same and still lose as much - it is impossible!

The petitions, the protests, the tv appearances have all failed - because sisu only understand money! This is why NOPM is the only thing that can worl (if indeed anything can!) Throughout history you hit them in the pocket things change!

Slavery - to abolish slavery they affected the trade - making it impossible to make money from slavery - slavery abolished
American Civil War - The north had the factories, The south relied on sale of cotton. North blockaded the south - no money - south lose!
Germany WWII - Invaded Russia to get at the oilfields. They failed - Germany lost the war!

It ALWAYS boils down to money! Starve sisu of cash - theywill have talks!

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

They went to Northampton after failing to buy a share of the stadium, that was promised to them.

The club needs every single penny of income to fund the football club, to buy players to afford its own stadium (hopefully the Roch) ...To be sustainable

No business sense going, no business future staying.

So you compound that situation by reducing your income stream in the short term?
Accepting part of your argument for now i.e no long term future in staying, would the sensible business decision not have been to remain at the Ricoh on the reduced rent- £400,000k or less whilst "Operation Brentfords" blue print stadium were built "somewhere" in the vacinity of Coventry? Its absolute madness from a financial perspective-and on the softer side to alienate your core support like they have done tells me what I need to know about the SISU/OTIUM organisation- they care not one jot about the football club or its fans-
Ricoh acquisition for peppercorn money is their only objective.
:blue:

 

[bigfatronssba]

So you compound that situation by reducing your income stream in the short term?
Accepting part of your argument for now i.e no long term future in staying, would the sensible business decision not have been to remain at the Ricoh on the reduced rent- £400,000k or less whilst "Operation Brentfords" blue print stadium were built "somewhere" in the vacinity of Coventry? Its absolute madness from a financial perspective-and on the softer side to alienate your core support like they have done tells me what I need to know about the SISU/OTIUM organisation- they care not one jot about the football club or its fans-
Ricoh acquisition for peppercorn money is their only objective.
:blue:

That's the point isn't it. There is no justification for playing in Northampton, they could have just carried on at the Ricoh whilst building a new stadium.

It just appears to me that they haven't got a clue about how to run a business.

 

[RegTheDonk]

... Just find it a bit odd though that SISU who chose to bankroll the club for the next (at least) three years whilst our new home is built, are willing to spend more propping up the club by going to Sixfields than staying at the Ricoh and very probably enduring less financial pain.

It doesn't make sense James, unless of course SISU plan to force ACL into going bust and then picking up the pieces.

Otherwise, as you say, they would take the £150K rent for a few years until they've built the new ground - and make a lot more money with 10K+ paying customers through the turnstiles.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Im no accountant- and accepting that I have made many assumptions; but based on average ticket price of £20 and with the Ricoh average attendance at 10,000 and Sixfields at a generous 2,500- accomodating catering revenue at £0 for the Ricoh and at £10/person for Sixfield per game as an income stream- with an assumed Ricoh rent at £400,000 and at Six field £100,000 as debits- its a circa £2.5m loss of revenue per annum into SISU accounts.
I recognise and accept these are speculative figures, and I accept all criticism with regard to the simplicity of my maths as I assume other fixed costs such as players wages etc remain the same, but it just doesnt make any sense, whatever assumptions you plug into the model it just doesnt work?
Or am I being too simplistic?

Ticket price £	Ricoh	Sixfield
20	10,000	2,500
Match Ticket Income(per game)	£200,000.00	£50,000.00
(A) Annual Ticket Income(23 Games)	£4,600,000.00	£1,150,000.00
Income from Catering *Assumes £10/Person/Game	£0.00	£25,000.00
(B)Annual Catering income(23 Games)	£0.00	£575,000.00
(C)Rent	£400,000.00	£100,000.00
Annual Income/revenue A+B-C	£4,200,000.00	£1,625,000.00
Lost Revenue opportunity	-£2,575,000.00

* EDit using these assumptions- an average crowd at Sixfield of circa 6232 is required to equalise the revenue streams

 

[longjohnskyblue]

Im no accountant- and accepting that I have made many assumptions; but based on average ticket price of £20 and with the Ricoh average attendance at 10,000 and Sixfields at a generous 2,500- accomodating catering revenue at £0 for the Ricoh and at £10/person for Sixfield per game as an income stream- with an assumed Ricoh rent at £400,000 and at Six field £100,000 as debits- its a circa £2.5m loss of revenue per annum into SISU accounts.
I recognise and accept these are speculative figures, and I accept all criticism with regard to the simplicity of my maths as I assume other fixed costs such as players wages etc remain the same, but it just doesnt make any sense, whatever assumptions you plug into the model it just doesnt work?
Or am I being too simplistic?

Ticket price £	Ricoh	Sixfield
20	10,000	2,500
Match Ticket Income(per game)	£200,000.00	£50,000.00
(A) Annual Ticket Income(23 Games)	£4,600,000.00	£1,150,000.00
Income from Catering *Assumes £10/Person/Game	£0.00	£25,000.00
(B)Annual Catering income(23 Games)	£0.00	£575,000.00
(C)Rent	£400,000.00	£100,000.00
Annual Income/revenue A+B-C	£4,200,000.00	£1,625,000.00
Lost Revenue opportunity	-£2,575,000.00

* EDit using these assumptions- an average crowd at Sixfield of circa 6232 is required to equalise the revenue streams

Don't forget the ticket prices are lower at sixfields - so even less income!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I repeat, for the umpteenth time, their argument is never about the short term.

Continually saying 'there's no business case' while refusing to even engage with their business case, but instead offer up another one, is a bit pointless really.