http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1168...mere-rovers-fans-trust-launch-bid-to-buy-club
I wonder - do most City fans think a trust owned club would be a good thing?
I wonder - do most City fans think a trust owned club would be a good thing?
Trust trying to buy the club (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Vedere
- Start date
SkyBlueScottie
Well-Known Member
Tranmere fans are trying to raise 500 k, this would only cover this clubs rent for a couple of years. What income would we have to generate funds....
MichaelCCFC
New Member
Could a fan-led ownership model, working with co-investors who are also city fans, possibly do any worse than the mess we've ended up in after all the businesspeople who've run the club since the mid 90s? Remember when ultra rich sisu arrived we all had high hopes of them...
MichaelCCFC
New Member
Excellent question. Every other Trust that has tried a fan-led ownership model has failed to raise a single penny whether in the UK or abroad. Oh, hang on...
Nick
Administrator
I'm not asking about every other trust though am I? What would the plan be to raise funds?
I also can't remember doubting, just asking where they would get it?
MichaelCCFC
New Member
Grendel, you used to do some really interesting posts but now it seems mainly insults. What's gone wrong chap?
Stupot, not a form of fan-led ownership I've ever heard of! (and Robinson wasn't a fan prior to Richardson involving him)
RFC - if you talk to people at club's where fan-led ownership has happened they all have lots of stories of it seeming like pie in the sky to begin with.
What would be really good is if people step away from their keyboards this evening and join the debate that really matters which will be at tonight's Trust meeting.
Stupot, not a form of fan-led ownership I've ever heard of! (and Robinson wasn't a fan prior to Richardson involving him)
RFC - if you talk to people at club's where fan-led ownership has happened they all have lots of stories of it seeming like pie in the sky to begin with.
What would be really good is if people step away from their keyboards this evening and join the debate that really matters which will be at tonight's Trust meeting.
Stafford_SkBlue
Well-Known Member
It would need to be sustainable, there will be no one to bail us out when the expenditure exceeds income.
Portsmouth attendances this season seem to be more then last season, but how long will this last?
Portsmouth attendances this season seem to be more then last season, but how long will this last?
Skybluerevolution (Pt2)
New Member
Question: How much money have the trust raised since its inception?
Question: What business skills do they have that previous CCFC boards did not (apart from being fans)
Question: What business skills do they have that previous CCFC boards did not (apart from being fans)
Nick
Administrator
Do we have enough rich supporters who could fund it?
What would happen if we needed some sort of loan?
Who would run the day to day stuff of the club? It isn't football manager, it is real life.
How would we buy the club from SISU? Surely they would want millions?
All valid questions, no need for sarcastic answers about how no other clubs have done it.
What would happen if we needed some sort of loan?
Who would run the day to day stuff of the club? It isn't football manager, it is real life.
How would we buy the club from SISU? Surely they would want millions?
All valid questions, no need for sarcastic answers about how no other clubs have done it.
Nick
Administrator
Not just business, football club experience too.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Yes it could so long as there's a business plan which has the club as self sustaining. If that's possible then fan ownership would work.
You have to look at the other clubs who have done this and what they have had to pay. Most have been clubs purchased out of admin or essentially gifted as they are about to go out of business and even then there have been huge struggles to raise the cash.
Look at Pompey for example, their fans don't really own the club at all, they have several local businessmen (the equivalent of the likes of Hoff and Joe) who have put in the largest stake but they didn't have enough to buy the club outright so they took on 2 large loans (one from the council one from a property developer who will sell off land around the ground to land lock them) and fan donations, they aren't really shares the fans have paid for as they can't sell them and they aren't covered by any regulations. It's easy to look at the headline of 'fan ownership' and think lets do that but the reality isn't always the same.
Our biggest stumbling block would be the huge offer it would take to remove SISU, we'd be looking at raising £40m or more!
Matty_CCFC
New Member
Well said Michael, do not always agree wit you but 100% with you on your reply.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Michael if the Trust is serious then why sidestep the question? After all, without pledges of money - and lots of it - then the plan will fail.
Covstu
Well-Known Member
Dave has it right, Pompey relied on local businesses to submit a stake into the pot (so then begs the question of who runs the show?). The trust doesnt have the capability to run the club and i mean that in that they are a group of fans trying to get answers, they have no experience in running a club and all probably have full time jobs also!
Its not the answer IMO, we can guess what Hoffman or the yank would have done if they bids were accepted, would have it been different from SISU - maybe, would it be right??? Unsure...
Its not the answer IMO, we can guess what Hoffman or the yank would have done if they bids were accepted, would have it been different from SISU - maybe, would it be right??? Unsure...
The Sky Blue Trust has not said it is or even going to try and buy the club.
If we did go down the route of trying to raise such silly amounts of money it would have to be discussed by our membership.
The thread was started following an article about another club not Coventry.
If we did go down the route of trying to raise such silly amounts of money it would have to be discussed by our membership.
The thread was started following an article about another club not Coventry.
MichaelCCFC
New Member
Personally, I would have looked at pledges and the Trust could arguably have consulted members a lot more and what people think about the principle of fan-led ownership would be a good one to do. For anyone who is interested in detail it is very easy to look at the Supporters Direct website and those of clubs where Trusts have had an impact. This thread was interesting cos it started with the principle of fan-led ownership. Given the mess we are in and the performance of Richardson through to Seppala (and just think of some of the directors we have had in that time), my question is how could a fan-led ownership model possibly be worse? And it's not like everything is rosy elsewhere with rich owners (Birmingham, Blackburn etc etc etc). I think the onus is on those who disagree with fan-led ownership to justify continuing with the current ownership model that allows our fate to be determined by one person who has no interest in football and no connection with Coventry at all, and who appear to believe all we can do is cross our fingers and hope the next rich person (e.g. American or 'the Chinese') who decides they fancy owning a football club will be any better
ashbyjan
Well-Known Member
Just to reiterate what some have tried to make clear THE SKY BLUE TRUST IS NOT TRYING TO BUY COVENTRY CITY FOOTBALL CLUB FROM OTIUM OR ANY OTHER SISU ASSOCIATED COMPANY. The subject of fan ownership is a complex one and each and every club has a unique set of circumstances - the example by the OP was about Tranmere Trust raising £1/2 million to buy their club from the owner and sorting out £5m debt. CCFC have no tangible assets, stated debts of some £70m (I will let OSB or others give the real figure), no home and are losing money each and every week - hardly the stuff business dreams are made off. At this present time we understand the club is not for sale and the Trust is not looking to buy - should circumstances change then we would have to re-examine our position and act according to our members wishes.
Hope that clears things up as far as the Trust's current position is.
Hope that clears things up as far as the Trust's current position is.
Nick
Administrator
Can I just ask why Michael is saying come to the trust meeting to discuss it when you are flat out denying it is the case (at this moment in time)?
It is still sending out mixed messages completely.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Look Michael is a member of the trust like most of us members we have our own objectives.
The one thing we all agree with is that COVENTRY CITY SHOULD BE PLAYING IN COVENTRY.
Can't understand the attack on the trust who like is said on here are SUPPORTERS of our club, who give up there time for FREE. That should surly be left to our Owners?
If the Trust is that bad why don't you all start up your own trusts or just come along to the meetings, and if you want put your names forward for election and run it the way you see fit.....
The one thing we all agree with is that COVENTRY CITY SHOULD BE PLAYING IN COVENTRY.
Can't understand the attack on the trust who like is said on here are SUPPORTERS of our club, who give up there time for FREE. That should surly be left to our Owners?
If the Trust is that bad why don't you all start up your own trusts or just come along to the meetings, and if you want put your names forward for election and run it the way you see fit.....
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
skybluefred
New Member
MichaelCCFC;Remember when ultra rich sisu arrived we all had high hopes of them...[/QUOTE said:
ashbyjan
Well-Known Member
As a member of the Trust Michael is entitled to bring up whatever subject he likes at an open meeting such as tonight and, time permitting, it would be discussed but Michael does not speak for the Trust just for himself. Michael feels very passionately about fan ownership and it is a subject that will always be on the agenda for the Trust as one of the stated aims of the Trust involves a level of fan ownership and involvement in the running of the club. So we can look at it, investigate it etc and if and when the time is right act, but as things stand that time is not now - but doesn't mean we cannot discuss it.
At the moment the Trusts - and I believe all Sky Blue fans - priority is getting the club back home as quickly as possible and anything that distracts from that is currently on the back burner.
At the moment the Trusts - and I believe all Sky Blue fans - priority is getting the club back home as quickly as possible and anything that distracts from that is currently on the back burner.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Ticket sales? Merchandise?
Do you think no football club can run without a sugar daddy?
duffer
Well-Known Member
I think there's a confusion here between buying the club, and trying to fund operating losses. The idea, presumably, is that clubs have to be made sustainable if owned by supporters.
Personally I can't think of anything better than a club partly or entirely owned by fans.
Minimises the chances of it falling into the hands of those who only want to make a quick buck (and therefore making reckless gambles) regardless of the club's and the supporters' best interests.
Personally I can't think of anything better than a club partly or entirely owned by fans.
Minimises the chances of it falling into the hands of those who only want to make a quick buck (and therefore making reckless gambles) regardless of the club's and the supporters' best interests.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Not one that would our supporters aspirations, no. It would have be funded with major losses to have any chance of what the average fan would view as acceptable.
Nick
Administrator
Sorry, I was just a bit confused as I thought it was something on the agenda.
I have nothing against them, I think recently they are turning a corner
Just sometimes get mixed messages when people post, that's all