Ainsworth Explains: Land Around The Ricoh (8 Viewers)

[Captain Dart]

A set of complimentry leisure facilities would mesh well with the Arena, e.g. Cinema, Amusment Park etc.

I'm not so sure that is the way to maximize profitability for the land though.. I wonder what Tesco are thinking about, possibly Hotels, can't see housing being that desirable.

No one is going to open a bingo hall, that stuff is online these days.

 

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[torchomatic]

And imho its not the job of the football club to develop the land around THEIR (CCCs) stadium.

It's not, imho, for the council to give the site away on the cheap to get the club back. I'd guess that's the point that Ainsworth is trying to make.

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[SonOfSnoz]

In what way is the road access restricted? There's a bit of road there that links directly to the A444 - the same bit of road that seems to adequately serve the Arena shopping complex.

I think Ainsworth's point is well made, personally. There's a lot of well-connected land there, and a fair amount of value to it. The council have a duty to maximise the return to the taxpayer. That might be by selling to SISU, it might be by selling to someone else, it might be by delaying selling until conditions are better, or it might be by not selling at all.

The council didn't move the club away from the Ricoh - the owners made that choice. It's not, imho, for the council to give the site away on the cheap to get the club back. I'd guess that's the point that Ainsworth is trying to make.

But the council were involved in moving the club into the Ricoh & selling their own stadium off & being held ransom in a shoddy deal!
Blame also lies with previous CCFC boards!

 

[The Gentleman]

That's a given, but who are they? What would they build there?

Anything the powers that be let them. Bricks and mortar in the right location make money. Even if it's renting..............

 

[SonOfSnoz]

And imho its not the job of the football club to develop the land around THEIR (CCCs) stadium.


Exactly!



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[duffer]

And imho its not the job of the football club to develop the land around THEIR stadium.
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I agree. Though I can also understand why the council might rather sell to someone who seems to have the ability to do it, and a plan to do so.

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that the council shouldn't sell undervalue just to benefit SISU/CCFC should it?

 

[bezzer]

No doubt Ann & Joy are discussing this!
Why should CCFC do what the council is meant to do though?
CCFC Is a football club not local government!

Yes but our football club is half owned by local government.

 

[torchomatic]

No, they shouldn't sell it for below market value and I never advocated they should. However, CCC/ACL certainly tried to "force" a change of ownership, presumably to Mr Cov and Mr American Property Developer just so that the land could be developed on their behalf. We were just a small part of the whole package.

I agree. Though I can also understand why the council might rather sell to someone who seems to have the ability to do it, and a plan to do so.

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that the council shouldn't sell undervalue just to benefit SISU/CCFC should it?

 

[SonOfSnoz]

Yes but our football club is half owned by local government.

Geoff Robbo?

 

[The Gentleman]

No, they shouldn't sell it for below market value and I never advocated they should. However, CCC/ACL certainly tried to "force" a change of ownership, presumably to Mr Cov and Mr American Property Developer just so that the land could be developed on their behalf. We were just a small part of the whole package.

Yes but even if we were part of that small package, I would imagine that we would be playing our home matches in Coventry. Would that not be a good thing ?

 

[duffer]

But the council were involved in moving the club into the Ricoh & selling their own stadium off & being held ransom in a shoddy deal!
Blame also lies with previous CCFC boards!

The blame for selling HR and moving to the Ricoh lies solely with previous CCFC boards.

The council didn't force them to sell HR did they? Did they also force them to spend all of the money that they could and should have invested in the Arena in the first place? CCFC could have had half of everything right from the off. It's not the council's fault the club was run by dreamers and chancers (and seemingly still is).

Ransom? Who's really holding the club to ransom here.

 

[torchomatic]

Of course it would. My point is that despite the emotional overtones of the CCC all they really care about it the land and getting someone else to develop it on their behalf. What do they know about PH4? Did they care? All they wanted to do was get him to take the club on. It seems they haven't learnt their lesson from their last "preferred" bidder, SISU.

Yes but even if we were part of that small package, I would imagine that we would be playing our home matches in Coventry. Would that not be a good thing ?

 

[torchomatic]

Absolutely right. I still say ACL had us backed into a corner. We had no choice to pay whatever rent they chose to levy.

The blame for selling HR and moving to the Ricoh lies solely with previous CCFC boards.

The council didn't force them to sell HR did they? Did they also force them to spend all of the money that they could and should have invested in the Arena in the first place? CCFC could have had half of everything right from the off. It's not the council's fault the club was run by dreamers and chancers (and seemingly still is).

Ransom? Who's really holding the club to ransom here.

 

[duffer]

No, they shouldn't sell it for below market value and I never advocated they should. However, CCC/ACL certainly tried to "force" a change of ownership, presumably to Mr Cov and Mr American Property Developer just so that the land could be developed on their behalf. We were just a small part of the whole package.

That certainly is a presumption. If they did try to 'force' a change of ownership (via administration), wasn't it because the current owners weren't paying the rent, and indeed seemed determined to undermine ACL by that point (as has subsequently been demonstrated). That's the way I read it.

I don't think the council/ACL would have got involved at all in the club's ownership issues, had the bills been paid. Indeed, they would have had no opportunity to do so.

 

[torchomatic]

Possibly. I was also thinking of Mutton's attitude.

That certainly is a presumption. If they did try to 'force' a change of ownership (via administration), wasn't it because the current owners weren't paying the rent, and indeed seemed determined to undermine ACL by that point (as has subsequently been demonstrated). That's the way I read it.

I don't think the council/ACL would have got involved at all in the club's ownership issues, had the bills been paid. Indeed, they would have had no opportunity to do so.

 

[duffer]

Possibly. I was also thinking of Mutton's attitude.

Point taken. But honestly I still think that if the rent was paid, and/or a straightforward deal thrashed out, it wouldn't matter how much dislike there was for SISU, there's bugger all the Council/ACL could do about them.

And on that I think I'd agree - assuming there is (or was) a deal to be done it's not for the council/ACL to choose the club's owners, or to demand that they develop the land.

 

[bigfatronssba]

And imho its not the job of the football club to develop the land around THEIR (CCCs) stadium.






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So you how does that fit in with this piece from the cov telegraph which attributes the opposite sentiment to what our beloved leader wants?:



A freehold sale of the Ricoh and surrounding development land is sought by Mrs Seppala, who insists the club under Sisu/Otium will never return to the Ricoh as tenants with the council or ACL as landlords, given a breakdown in relations.

She claims the freehold would maximise vital revenue for the loss-making club from the stadium and surrounding land’s commercial activities, including exhibitions, hotels, conferences and concerts.

She also claims Sisu wants to acquire a stadium and commercial development land to maximise its prospects of a return on “£60million investment”.




Would you support the council in refusing to sell her the land?

 

[The Gentleman]

Of course it would. My point is that despite the emotional overtones of the CCC all they really care about it the land and getting someone else to develop it on their behalf. What do they know about PH4? Did they care? All they wanted to do was get him to take the club on. It seems they haven't learnt their lesson from their last "preferred" bidder, SISU.

As sad as it sounds that despite a few local MP's saying they support CCFC, in the grand scheme of things why would they really care about our football club. They say what they think is the right noises in the media etc but as we are all aware there are far bigger things going on in the city than our plight (as much as it pains me to say it being a Cov fan). The Ricoh is an investment for the council and they have a responsibilty to the city of Coventry and not the football club. The football club attracts only a small percentage of Coventry bearing in mind some support comes from outside our boundaries so of course the main thing they care about is there investment, if I owned it instead of CCC I would be thinking the same thing (my missus would make sure of it). In the world of business, should it not be the case that head should rule over heart.

 

[Ashdown1]

Councils eh?? They talk all about maximising values and revenues etc but when they do make a shed load then never offer a slice back to the public do they, in the form of a small reduction on the council tax?

 

[bigfatronssba]

Councils eh?? They talk all about maximising values and revenues etc but when they do make a shed load then never offer a slice back to the public do they, in the form of a small reduction on the council tax?

Plenty of times they haven't put up council tax, which with inflation factored in is a reduction.

 

[fernandopartridge]

As sad as it sounds that despite a few local MP's saying they support CCFC, in the grand scheme of things why would they really care about our football club. They say what they think is the right noises in the media etc but as we are all aware there are far bigger things going on in the city than our plight (as much as it pains me to say it being a Cov fan). The Ricoh is an investment for the council and they have a responsibilty to the city of Coventry and not the football club. The football club attracts only a small percentage of Coventry bearing in mind some support comes from outside our boundaries so of course the main thing they care about is there investment, if I owned it instead of CCC I would be thinking the same thing (my missus would make sure of it). In the world of business, should it not be the case that head should rule over heart.

Although a lot of the stuff that came out from the council was quasi emotive crap like "Mayfair based hedge fund" - the thing is that a lot of developments are backed by hedge funds these days, that's just the way of the world.

The whole situation has been about the various parties protecting their own interests under the guise of protecting the club.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Plenty of times they haven't put up council tax, which with inflation factored in is a reduction.

Hmm - http://www.lgcplus.com/council-tax-...-outpaced-inflation-since-1993/523091.article (based on 2005 figures)

There may have been a slowing against inflation since then but it won't make up that disparity.

 

[torchomatic]

So you how does that fit in with this piece from the cov telegraph which attributes the opposite sentiment to what our beloved leader wants?:



A freehold sale of the Ricoh and surrounding development land is sought by Mrs Seppala, who insists the club under Sisu/Otium will never return to the Ricoh as tenants with the council or ACL as landlords, given a breakdown in relations.

She claims the freehold would maximise vital revenue for the loss-making club from the stadium and surrounding land’s commercial activities, including exhibitions, hotels, conferences and concerts.

She also claims Sisu wants to acquire a stadium and commercial development land to maximise its prospects of a return on “£60million investment”.




Would you support the council in refusing to sell her the land?

If we (I.e. the football club) owned the stadium then fair enough. However the council want it both ways. They want to own the stadium and get their tenants to develop the land for them.

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[lordsummerisle]

If we (I.e. the football club) owned the stadium then fair enough. However the council want it both ways. They want to own the stadium and get their tenants to develop the land for them.

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Something I've never really understood.

We had PWKH on here saying that that ACL wanted somebody who could develop the area and build hotels that are desperately needed to help make the Arena more of a success to own the club.

Don't know why if there is such a demand for hotels etc why they couldn't sell or lease the land to somebody like Holiday Inn(or whoever their development partners are) and they could build hotels there.

If it hasn't been done before now then maybe there isn't the demand for it?

If there is the demand for it, then why have they not been approached by people to develop the land for them?

If they have been approached by people who do want to develop the land then why hasn't it been done?

 

[thaiskyblue]

sisu own a hotel chain i think ?

 

[lordsummerisle]

sisu own a hotel chain i think ?

With the move to Northampton, assume it must be Travelodge.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Something I've never really understood.

We had PWKH on here saying that that ACL wanted somebody who could develop the area and build hotels that are desperately needed to help make the Arena more of a success to own the club.

Don't know why if there is such a demand for hotels etc why they couldn't sell or lease the land to somebody like Holiday Inn(or whoever their development partners are) and they could build hotels there.

If it hasn't been done before now then maybe there isn't the demand for it?

If there is the demand for it, then why have they not been approached by people to develop the land for them?

If they have been approached by people who do want to develop the land then why hasn't it been done?

Plans have been submitted for hotels in the vicinity in the past. Nothing has ever materialised.

 

[James Smith]

Something I've never really understood.

We had PWKH on here saying that that ACL wanted somebody who could develop the area and build hotels that are desperately needed to help make the Arena more of a success to own the club.

Don't know why if there is such a demand for hotels etc why they couldn't sell or lease the land to somebody like Holiday Inn(or whoever their development partners are) and they could build hotels there.

If it hasn't been done before now then maybe there isn't the demand for it?

If there is the demand for it, then why have they not been approached by people to develop the land for them?

If they have been approached by people who do want to develop the land then why hasn't it been done?

I may have completely the wrong end of the stick on this and am happy to be corrected but...... I thought the reason for them CCC/ACL wanting the development of the surrounding land by the owners of our club was so that the profits from there + ACL could be used to support the club. As the revenues from football are not coming in for all 52 weeks of the year the club would benefit from the year round activities elsewhere on the site such as exhibitions, hotels etc.

 

[lordsummerisle]

I may have completely the wrong end of the stick on this and am happy to be corrected but...... I thought the reason for them CCC/ACL wanting the development of the surrounding land by the owners of our club was so that the profits from there + ACL could be used to support the club. As the revenues from football are not coming in for all 52 weeks of the year the club would benefit from the year round activities elsewhere on the site such as exhibitions, hotels etc.

We don't get the profits now from ACL to support the club though.

 

[Ashdown1]

Plenty of times they haven't put up council tax, which with inflation factored in is a reduction.

Not in my neck of the woods. There has been a rise every year !!

 

[James Smith]

Plans have been submitted for hotels in the vicinity in the past. Nothing has ever materialised.

So quite different to SISU in that respect then?

Plans have never been submitted (as far as I know) for the new stadium and nothing has ever materialised on that score (pun not intended).

Were they just looking to get planning permission sorted for the eventual developer perhaps?

 

[James Smith]

We don't get the profits now from ACL to support the club though.

But we don't own any of ACL despite having had the chance to do so. :facepalm: We could have had two seats on the board of ACL and therefore influence, the ability to see the accounts etc. just by buying the Higgs share.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

You were talking about moral obligations earlier weren't you?

And am far from condoning it now - just saying how easy the powers that be achieve these things if there's money in it for them.

 

[fernandopartridge]

So quite different to SISU in that respect then?

Plans have never been submitted (as far as I know) for the new stadium and nothing has ever materialised on that score (pun not intended).

Were they just looking to get planning permission sorted for the eventual developer perhaps?

No - I remember seeing some in 2005/06 - they'd have lapsed about 4 years ago

 

[James Smith]

No - I remember seeing some in 2005/06 - they'd have lapsed about 4 years ago

So not after the rent boycott had started then, when a new ground was suggested with any seriousness?