D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I suspect while there's the chance of CCFC returning, the answer for most would be 'neither'!
I suspect while there's the chance of CCFC returning, the answer for most would be 'neither'!
ccfctommy
Well-Known Member
I think in non league football, you cannot play in a black home kit, incase you clash colours with the referee.
Not sure where or why i know that.
rondog1973
Well-Known Member
So who do you ultimately think will win out in this attritional war?
After today's news, Sisu must be delighted as it means CCC must now engage further in costly legal wranglings which can only weaken their position.
If the white flag is waved by ACL/CCC, and Sisu acquire the Ricoh, I won't be attending a CCFC match again, and I think it won't be too long before anyone else will either, as I don't think Sisu have any ambitions for making a success of CCFC as evidenced by our decline under the leadership.
Thanks for your answers Re. The Sky Blue question. My reasons for asking being: lesson than half of our history we were nicknamed 'The Sky Blues', so to me the uniting factor was that we were from Coventry rather than the colour we play in, and, very often our kits were not Sky Blue but more of a 'powdery-wishy-washy-blue' or stripes.
I guess if it all goes t^*s up then any new club will have to fight extra hard so that Man City don't have a monopoly over Sky Blue!
I guess if it all goes t^*s up then any new club will have to fight extra hard so that Man City don't have a monopoly over Sky Blue!
Flying Fokker
Well-Known Member
A new club may be able to take Hinckley's place?
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I very much doubt it.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
So you will only support ccfc at the Ricoh if they are tenants of ACL?
saltaire bantam
Well-Known Member
There is everything to gain and absolutely nothing to lose. The only other option is to carry on playing the waiting game and I'd back SISU to win that one, if you continue to let them.
Good luck today, I hope you make the news.
Good luck today, I hope you make the news.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
I suspect he means he will only support them if they get back there through honest negotiations. Either through buying at market rate, rental, or leaseholder.
I would give sisu money to watch Ccfc if they have acted in a reasonable manner, if they acquire the Ricoh by force I would find it very difficult to give them my money.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
I fully understand the argument about waiting until a relocation is permanent, however once the club announces a new ground outside the city, is that not a permanent relocation?
stupot07
Well-Known Member
It all depends on the outcome of the JR though, if the money is deemed to be an illegal use of state aid, then that's not really sisu's problem. And fans may be more sympathetic if it is found that the allegations of negotiations to share the debt with sisu did take place.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
There is a lot to lose, it will further divide an already fragmented and fragile fanbase.
You mock the waiting game, but we are only 1/3rd into the season, yes that is 3-4 months too long, but it's not that long in the context of a 130 years old history.
The outcome of the JR will be the most pivotal moment, and will give us a greater ideas of what the future holds.
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Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
You and NW seem to be genuinely waiting until the JR until you make your mind up about that, as if it changes anything. No matter what the outcome is, the whole episode remains about SISU attempting to distress ACL. SISU have been laughed out of court over this previously: if Joy manages to fluke a sympathetic right-wing judge, the outcome may change, but not the truth of the matter, so why does it mean so much to you? Do you honestly believe that every court case has the correct outcome?
stupot07
Well-Known Member
It matters because it will be the defining moment on whether we come back to the Ricoh and in which guise.
No, not every court has the correct outcome, perhaps the initial judge who threw the original JR application out was wrong? What happens if it's found to be true that ACL, CCC and Sisu were all complicit in trying to distress ACL to buy the debt back from the Yorkshire Bank cheaper?
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stupot07
Well-Known Member
I don't believe they will build a ground, and if they did a lot will depend on where it is, and whether that would be deemed acceptable distance/location or not.
magic82ball
New Member
So stupot, just to clarify, are you a no to the phoenix club? just want to get an idea of numbers.
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
No to Phoenix club from me unless CCFC are totally dead.
Too many people give up too easily on here, but mostly so they can just emote about how passionate they are, then fuck off at the first sign of trouble.
Too many people give up too easily on here, but mostly so they can just emote about how passionate they are, then fuck off at the first sign of trouble.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Did you find it difficult to give them money when the woman beater was in town?
I personally think its remarkable the amount of fans that have stuck by the club when you think how badly we've been treated over the last ten years or so.
7k to an away game is remarkable considering we're at our lowest point for god knows how long,couple that with having the worst owners in football and the worst run club.
Im amazed we got gates of 10k last season.
rondog1973
Well-Known Member
Nope. I'll observe NOPM until Sisu are gone.
Not against anyone ('cept Sisu) unifying club & stadium. If Sisu eventually do acquire the Ricoh, I'm done. They have shown scant disregard for the football team and the fans thus far, I don't think them getting their hands on the Ricoh will lead to some 'Road to Damascus' change in the way they perceive and treat us as fans.
I'll always be a Cov fan in my heart, but I won't give my money to malevolent outsiders, unconcerned about the clubs footballing fortunes.
Nick
Administrator
Could be said about a lot of football club owners?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
It could.
And tbf isn't that a problem with football governance full-stop?
Got to admire rondog's stand, if nowt else. The danger after all is that whenever SISU do move on they're replaced by malevolent outsiders, unconcerned about the club's footballing fortunes...
And it'll be lapped up with a quick soundbyte and commitment to involve the fans.
rondog1973
Well-Known Member
So then surely a fan conceived and owned Phoenix club would appeal?
Nick
Administrator
Not really, else I would support Coventry Sphinx or somebody already?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
As I said elsewhere...
I'd only want it when it has the best chance of success, and the best chance of all fans following it rather than being fatally split, and us ending up with two shoddy failures of clubs, bigger failures than anything we've had until now. Even if people don't go to Sixfields, it doesn't automatically assume their attachment isn't to this club or nothing... and offering a choice won't make them jump ship to the alternative, as it'll still be a blatantly different club, much as Sphinx are. If the JR result came back in SISU's favour, and certain council practices had indeed been shown to be dubious, then I'd struggle to collude in killing off my club. If they came back against SISU, the club could still come back to the city. If however it bought land in, say, Cawston, there'd be an obligation to start a new club up, you'd get far more behind it, far more chance of it succeeding...
As long as the current club survives, because of how football works, that ain't going to happen that fans just switch, not until there's a drastic sense of permanence.
Couple the fact that football governance needs an overhaul in this country so fan conceived and owned clubs actually stand more than a puncher's chance of succeeding, and there's a problem. The system in this country just doesn't support fan owned clubs working long-term, it merely supports them as firefighting measures. The fans of Notts County, mansfield, lincoln... even Stockport etc. can point to the problems of swimming against the tide, even the 'success' that's Exeter relied on a lucky cup draw, and even now their fans grow more restless, seemingly unwilling to accept what they have - they should be careful what they wish for...
And that's not because I'm against the principle, it's because the system isn't overly suited. personally I've always thought an adaption of what we used to have/ the Arsenal model of days gone by are the best ways forward, where about 25% of shares are open to your everyday fan to buy, and no one person can own more than 25% of the rest of the stake; allows for benevolant dictatorship/ decisive decisions rather than the wringing of hands and buerocracy, but still enables some accountability, and stops one owner wielding absolute power and control.
Now, the alternative action is surely to abandon all thoughts of a fan owned CCFC replacement, but just set up a club that's fan owned, call it Coventry Rovers, say, have it play in red and green halves, set up the system of governance you want in a football club, see if they can grow on their own accord to a certain level.
Make history, rather than split it, for as long as the current club has a chance of coming back, you won't be able to claim their history, either absolutely or intangibly.
rondog1973
Well-Known Member
Sphinx ain't a phoenix club!
I've said in previous posts a club born out of fan disillusionment at the way their club has been torn apart, akin to FC United of Manchester.
We could play in Sky Blue, nicknamed the Sky Blues, use elements of the city coat of arms in the club crest and incorporate the words Coventry City in the clubs name.
To my mind 'Coventry City 1883' would be perfect as it would provide spiritual continuity. I think the main reason Coventry Utd has failed to inspire is because it made none of the above concessions, making it look like a rival rather than a surrogate or alternative outlet for fans of CCFC.
Btw, why do you always seemingly end every sentence, regardless of whether it's a question or not, with a question mark? The intonation makes you sound like you should be appearing in Neighbours or Home and away!
rondog1973
Well-Known Member
Broadly agree, but just to reiterate, what I, and other posters are proposing is a contingency plan that could hit the ground running in the event of certain scenarios.
For me, the Holy Grail in this war is denying Sisu ownership of the Ricoh, were this to occur, it would be a slow lingering death for my beloved methinks.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
See the way I see it is suppose the worst did happen, and our club did go pop.
A season spent forming a new one could actually work to our advantage; people see what they miss, they actually want to get involved, the drip of information about name, strip, players signed up, place to play all builds to the big day, its first ever game which isn't just any other game, but it's an EVENT, the type of thing people actively WANT to get involved with, because the build-up's been tagged for that time, it's something to look forward to.
Set it up now, then even if a contingency, the premise of fan owned will fall down because it'll be seen as a rival not a continuation, so you don't have the chance to involve everybody from the very beginning that you have at other times, you still have all the problems surrounding it being seen as rival/not a continuation and, worse, you risk losing that positive momentum which is necessary for success.
Different scenario, but bodging our Ricoh move, not doing it properly, not hanging back for another season until it was actually finished probably cost us, as we couldn't make the most of that opportunity, sometimes holding fire allows you to make more steps forward than just rushing in, as it allows for definites rather than confusion.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Yeah y'see I kinda have trouble with the very concept of ACL trying to distress themselves. Sounds like the kind of crazy scheme that only a Hedge Fund could dream up. So you're saying that ACL are in trouble for stopping themselves from fucking themselves up? Ok.....
stupot07
Well-Known Member
It sounds very elaborate, but is still feasible - if they were in cahoot's with sisu then sisu could have come up with the idea, but other parties agreed it. Hopefully the JR will disprove that, but we won't know in the verdict is delivered.
And in a way, it didn't fuck themselves up did it, it allowed the debt to be bought at a reduced cost which lowered the repayments and made ACL more financially stable. So distressing them actually benefitted ACL.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Surely they could have done that any way? Alternatively, they only did that because they were distressed? This is like saying "lucky buggers, getting a lollipop from the dentists by punching their own teeth out..."
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Who knows? But hopefully the JR will lay it all out in the open, one way or another.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I don't see how the strategy can be proved - it's a fairly coversive strategy and can't see anyone putting anything in writing.