RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
Just to make things interesting I want Sisu to win, I wonder if any of the bookies will have any odds for it :thinking about:
Time for Plain Speaking (35 Viewers)
- Thread starter MichaelCCFC
- Start date
Just to make things interesting I want Sisu to win, I wonder if any of the bookies will have any odds for it :thinking about:
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
My biggest moral is Coventry should be playing in Coventry and it was sisu that done this not ccc. Luckily I think ccc will win and unfortunately I think ccfc are doomed.
MichaelCCFC
New Member
Robo, for me that's the type of negotiation that would take place once we're back at the Ricoh. My suggestion is good for the team and good for the fans, gets us back to the Ricoh immediately then allows time for the kind of negotiation you suggest.
Nick
Administrator
Michael, with all respect it is not as simple as you saying that SISU should just pick up the phone. Don't get me wrong I would love nothing more than for SISU / ACL/ CCC to all talk and get the best arrangement possible for the club and can build trust a bit.
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
I am not sure you are correct Michael for instance CCFC have said they won't return to the Ricoh for two reasons:
Firstly because they don't trust ACL or CCC and don't want to be a tenant.
Secondly because they want ownership that entitles them to more revenue.
My example, that also coupled with examples Noggin has previously stated over the last few weeks would be in my eyes the quickest way to get the Club back on a deal that's right for all parties.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
pick up the phone, come back tomorrow, negotiate a sale for 6 months, council refuse to sell, phone northampton back and try to start a new ground share whilst picking up plans again to build a stadium.
doesnt really make sense tbf, they will ground share till a deal is done with council or new stadium.
doesnt really make sense tbf, they will ground share till a deal is done with council or new stadium.
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
So it makes sense to stay at sixfields for a few years and lose millions ?
From a strategic point of view - yes, if the aim is to either own ACL or build a new stadium.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
The issue there though is that what is right for Sisu isn't necessarily what is right for CCFC.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Despite many arguing it would.
The reality is finally starting to kick in on that one
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
Well I think accessing the matchday revenues that the Football Club generates is essential for the Club and would also be deemed as correct. Of course the club would have to pay for these.
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
The two quoted reasons are what certain people want you to believe, is the real reason they won't return to the Ricoh under a rental agreement because they don't want to be helping out a business they are trying to distress. Please can we stop talking about Sisu not trusting ACL/CCC like they are some sort of devious clandestine organisation, it is Sisu who the untrustworthy ones, do you not remember what a well respected judge said about Joy Seppella and the truth on a previous case they were involved in? Do you not remember what we have been told about players registrations? Do you remember what we have been told about the new ground?
People have shown on here that we could be viable under an affordable rental agreement with access to revenues, once in we could then build on that relationship and look to buy into the Arena. This would be the quickest way to get the club back playing at HOME.
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
How is it?
For instance the Matchday revenues, explain to me how the club shouldn't benefit from these revenues or better yet give me an example to another successful Football Club that doesn't benefit from them at all, like I said these will have to be paid for by CCFC, but it is imperative the Club make this step.
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
Well like you posting your opinion on the reason the Club won't return to the Ricoh I see other reasons.
I do what remember what a judge said about Joy Seppala but do you also not remember that ACL triued to bring an American Property Investor in to purchase the Club and the Arena together during a shoddy Administration process? A rent deal will not happen, it might seem like the best deal to you but if I was in CCFC's shoes I wouldn't want it either.
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
Sorry Nick but in this case it is really as simple as picking up the phone, we all do things that we don't like but for the good of our jobs, families and lives etc we do it. If Sisu did pick up the phone and say "right we want the last rental deal", how in the world could ACL/CCC turn them down. Unless of course that Sisu do not want what is best for the club or it's fans, just what is best for them.
It isn't and never has been a good idea to play at sixfields if building their own stadium. Nore if there plan was to buy ACL through normal reasonable means. I don't understand why being at sixfields is the best plan for obtaining the Ricoh/ACL through the JR but I accept this appears to be the only logical explanation.
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
You almost lost the argument there
But overall I agree.
We are succesful though Godiva at being unsucessful
That depends on the alternative options available. At the time they negotiated ground share there was not a better offer on the table. At this point in time - well, it's just too late and the parties are fighting it out in courts. Hopefully better options comes on the table when the fighting stops.
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
Really? So if Sisu lose the appeal and are forced to either build a new stadium for upwards of 30 million (probably far more in reality), they would rather do that than deal with ACL, because if you say that Sisu do not trust ACL/CCC then how can they either buy or rent based on your opinion of Sisu not wanting to deal with them. Of course if we do build a new stadium and as I said to you earlier that won't happen for at least another 5 years, based on what debt we are already in, what further debt will be amassed from at least 5 years in the wilderness and the debt of the new stadium (which we won't own by the way, we will rent as said by Tim Fisher), how exactly will we be better off? My reckoning will be at least 120 million in debt in League 1 at best with crowds of around 5k (generous), can't wait!
at every stage there has been a better option than playing at sixfields if your plan really was to build a new stadium.
Your debt figures are grossly overstated - and you don't really realize the initial debt to the funds could probably be bought for a fraction of its nominal value.
But never mind that - I am curious to hear your opinion on the club wanting to buy the shares in ACL (and a new extra long lease for ACL) based on two independent valuations.
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
I think that is why Sisu wanted to purchase the Freehold because it skips dealing with ACL to a certain extent. Well the best way to deal with it would be to put mediators in, although this seems to simple.
With respect to the Debt I am not sure it will be quite that figure, Sisu have said they'd covert some of the existing debt into equity and use that to build the new Stadium along with a loan from a lender. Of course this is yet to be seen, but this was what Fisher stated way back at the Forums at the end of last season. Admittedly the appeal of attendances doesn't look great but if they did build their own Stadium it would at least be a business model of which the Club could grow from.
Really? Was that the offer with a 10 year lease? Or the offer depending of abandoning the JR? Or are you referring to the offer made after the deal with Northampton was signed?
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
I agree last week OSB said this:
Now the figure I have highlighted is £44.7M, now Tim Fisher has stated the financing for the new Stadium would come from Equity which would be converted from the debt figure so if we say £20M for instance does this not mean in simple terms that the figure of debt has then reduced not escalated?
Come to think of it - I can't remember any of those constantly quoting a debt figure of £70m even asking why it's now only £45m.
I explained what I'd have done earlier in the thread if I were an evil morally bankrupt company who were willing to put the club into administration to break the lease.
When the deal was on the table for a 400k rent take it whatever the lease length, build the new stadium with a company other than ccfc limited, in 5 years time arvo calls in the debt, ccfc limited gets put into administration, lease gets broken. they now have a new stadium without 5 years of playing with 2k at best average crowds, we'd quite possibly be in the championship rather than the much more likely league 2 of now. It's quite possible you could avoid the administration too by telling acl you are willing to put the club into admin and offering 2 or 3 years rent to break the lease instead, while it would suck for acl it would be in their best interests to accept it.
Even without getting the rent down to 400k this is a much better plan than what they have done, yep continue to pay 1.2mill rent per year whilst building the new stadium then do the admin thing. Much worse than doing it with 400k rent but still an order of magnitude better than the current plan (assuming the current plan is to build a new stadium which I'm sure it isn't)
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
There has never been a consistent debate from some posters and that's not a dig it's just the truth.
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
Actually its the sad bastards who actually feel proud of a council that clearly see the club as nothing more than an entity to fleece money off that I feel sorry for.
it was written off when Otium brought the club wasn't it?. I can only assume it was in sisus best interests to do this. Presumably bidding for the club involved giving a percentage in the pound you were willing to pay for for the debts. This of course meant no one else could beat sisu when bidding for the club because the money was to be paid back to themselves. Presumably for some reason it was better for sisu to write off the debt than it was to have to find 25% of it to pay to buy the club even though it would go back to themselves. not sure of the reasons for this, tax?
I could easily be completely wrong about all that though, it was a pretty confusing and opaque process.
other than the amount of interest we are paying arvo though (and I get the impression this is only based on a small amount of the debt anyway) it seems to me the total debt is mostly irrelevant once it is higher than the number sisu can get back and I'm sure it is.
The amount of debt to arvo seems to matter alot as we are paying very high interest on it, but I don't think we are paying interest on the other debt and since it seems completely impossible for it to ever be paid back fully, weather than number is 45 or 450m is irrelevant. At least thats my take and again on this I could easily be wrong.
So you have found one good reason for sisu to write off debts. That was actually hat I hoped for - now I am sure you can see how sisu can write off more debts, if it suits them.
Remember this next time anyone argues about how hamstrung the club are due to the high debt level.
The club is being charged interest on the ARVO (some £12m) loans. OSB didn't find evidence the interests had been paid out - only accrued.
Did he also say the initial loans are now charging interest? I think so, but is the interest also simply added to the debt?
NortonSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
Lazio is ours and we will leave it to our children.'
This is my first post under this name and you will see I am based in Saudi Arabia.
I am detached from the situation we are in terms of distance but not anger at the series of events that have crippled Coventry City Football Club, in my opinion, to the point of extinction: morally, financially and commercially. Ask yourself would you put your company's name on this club's shirt? I suspect you know the answer to that, would you invest in this club?, I suspect you know the answer to that too, Would you want your club to act in not just a financially bankrupt manner but to be morally bankrupt as well? I suspect that is more of a grey area for some of you.
Some might say I don't give a toss, I just want to see my team play, I am just supporting my team: Sorry guys you/we are all guilty of standing idly by or sitting and smacking out your theories on the net, scenarios and what needs to happen. Affirmative action is needed or our club is dead and it may be too late now anyway.
If you go to Northampton you are complicit in killing the club is a point of view, if you don't go you are missing an opportunity to let them know what you really feel about the situation the Sky Blues find themselves in. Emotion, affirmative action and making the decision makers feel so uncomfortable in their seats and offices may not change anything but everybody is getting a free ride at the moment and frankly I am baffled at the lack of militancy shown. If we don't give a shit, why should anybody else.
Its our club, its the club that Derek Robbins and Jimmy Hill built that has disappointed and let us down so often but still in our hearts. look at what Lazio fans did, a clear message, 'its him or us','Lazio is ours and we will leave it to our children'. We ask WHY? FECKIN WHY? because we are weak, we are divided, we are not prepared to take radical action needed to force the issue. We have given these people a free ride in my opinion.
I will never watch my team at Sixfields, I would never watch them in a new stadium even if it was based in Broadgate or even on TV unless they return to the Ricoh, that souless pit, built for us by somebody else's money, that we reneged on, a charity no less. Here's something else: for 16 games a season Highfield road was a souless sky blue seated ground and rarely came alive year on year.
So we are waiting to see the JR? You have got no chance of determining any outcome there but our voices are not being heard at all. I suggest we so called Coventry City supporters grow some balls otherwise we will be left will just memories of a club past and wondering why nothing was done to save it by its chief stakeholders -you. The time for fence sitting is gone in my opinion.
This is my first post under this name and you will see I am based in Saudi Arabia.
I am detached from the situation we are in terms of distance but not anger at the series of events that have crippled Coventry City Football Club, in my opinion, to the point of extinction: morally, financially and commercially. Ask yourself would you put your company's name on this club's shirt? I suspect you know the answer to that, would you invest in this club?, I suspect you know the answer to that too, Would you want your club to act in not just a financially bankrupt manner but to be morally bankrupt as well? I suspect that is more of a grey area for some of you.
Some might say I don't give a toss, I just want to see my team play, I am just supporting my team: Sorry guys you/we are all guilty of standing idly by or sitting and smacking out your theories on the net, scenarios and what needs to happen. Affirmative action is needed or our club is dead and it may be too late now anyway.
If you go to Northampton you are complicit in killing the club is a point of view, if you don't go you are missing an opportunity to let them know what you really feel about the situation the Sky Blues find themselves in. Emotion, affirmative action and making the decision makers feel so uncomfortable in their seats and offices may not change anything but everybody is getting a free ride at the moment and frankly I am baffled at the lack of militancy shown. If we don't give a shit, why should anybody else.
Its our club, its the club that Derek Robbins and Jimmy Hill built that has disappointed and let us down so often but still in our hearts. look at what Lazio fans did, a clear message, 'its him or us','Lazio is ours and we will leave it to our children'. We ask WHY? FECKIN WHY? because we are weak, we are divided, we are not prepared to take radical action needed to force the issue. We have given these people a free ride in my opinion.
I will never watch my team at Sixfields, I would never watch them in a new stadium even if it was based in Broadgate or even on TV unless they return to the Ricoh, that souless pit, built for us by somebody else's money, that we reneged on, a charity no less. Here's something else: for 16 games a season Highfield road was a souless sky blue seated ground and rarely came alive year on year.
So we are waiting to see the JR? You have got no chance of determining any outcome there but our voices are not being heard at all. I suggest we so called Coventry City supporters grow some balls otherwise we will be left will just memories of a club past and wondering why nothing was done to save it by its chief stakeholders -you. The time for fence sitting is gone in my opinion.
Astute
Well-Known Member
And there you have the main point. They were going to do anything they had to if it meant breaking the lease. Yet you blame ACL :thinking about:
SISU threatened to liquidate our club. ACL threatened to put our club into admin. SISU put our club into admin instead so they could choose Appleton. And we know why they wanted him. Yet it is all the fault of ACL still?