A few questions for PWKH (25 Viewers)

Rusty Trombone

Well-Known Member
Didn't Compass pay £4million for their share of the catering rights in IEC?

Didn't notice that payment in the accounts for ACL, though maybe IEC is a seperate company and has it's own accounts maybe?

IEC is a seperate company (Co.no. 08039699), and has its own accounts, but the figures will be included in the ACL figures that were published, and were posted on here.

The figures (some of them) for IEC to 31.5.13 (I think the trading period was slightly longer than 12 months since incorporation).

Turnover £9m
Gross Profit £5m
Net loss £265k

Shares £4m
 

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sky blue john

Well-Known Member
IEC is a seperate company (Co.no. 08039699), and has its own accounts, but the figures will be included in the ACL figures that were published, and were posted on here.

The figures (some of them) for IEC to 31.5.13 (I think the trading period was slightly longer than 12 months since incorporation).

Turnover £9m
Gross Profit £5m
Net loss £265k

Shares £4m

I'm no accountant but even to me those figures look odd ?
Gross profit of 5m on 9m turnover looks excellent. How could they have a loss of 265k?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
What the OP seems to be getting at here is that ACL are in trouble. Of course we've been down this road before. There were those of the opinion that as soon as CCFC moved out it would all fall apart, that didn't happen. Then it was wait for ACL's accounts and we'll see the truth, then ACL released their accounts and there was nothing of note in them. Now we seem to have moved to ACL will have problems down the line. They may well do but all the evidence we have at the moment doesn't really point to that. Their accounts were fine with no auditors note concerning the future. They have, as far as we know, met all payments on their loan and they are starting to attract more events in such as the computer game thing this weekend.

Frankly I couldn't care less what Isle of Capri or Rank did, especially as there's no indication there was anything untoward. From memory didn't Isle of Capri move out of the UK completely? Seems to me that to all intents and purposes Rank have taken over their role, something that's not an uncommon occurrence.

I would love to see the club back at the Ricoh but I think we're at a point now where it needs SISU to put in a formal bid for whatever it is they want to purchase. It appears the council, Higgs and ACL have got fed up of SISU moving the goalposts and are all going about their business but have left the door open for SISU should they wish to make a sensible bid.

Now it may be the case that once we reach the JR a whole different story emerges and we find out any of the parties involved on the Ricoh side have been up to no good but unless that happens, or someone can present evidence of some wrongdoing, I think we need to move on from what ACL and the Ricoh are up to and worry about the club. If we're sitting around waiting for ACL to fail as the catalyst for a move back I think we'll be in for a very long wait.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
What the OP seems to be getting at here is that ACL are in trouble. Of course we've been down this road before. There were those of the opinion that as soon as CCFC moved out it would all fall apart, that didn't happen. Then it was wait for ACL's accounts and we'll see the truth, then ACL released their accounts and there was nothing of note in them. Now we seem to have moved to ACL will have problems down the line. They may well do but all the evidence we have at the moment doesn't really point to that. Their accounts were fine with no auditors note concerning the future. They have, as far as we know, met all payments on their loan and they are starting to attract more events in such as the computer game thing this weekend.

Frankly I couldn't care less what Isle of Capri or Rank did, especially as there's no indication there was anything untoward. From memory didn't Isle of Capri move out of the UK completely? Seems to me that to all intents and purposes Rank have taken over their role, something that's not an uncommon occurrence.

I would love to see the club back at the Ricoh but I think we're at a point now where it needs SISU to put in a formal bid for whatever it is they want to purchase. It appears the council, Higgs and ACL have got fed up of SISU moving the goalposts and are all going about their business but have left the door open for SISU should they wish to make a sensible bid.

Now it may be the case that once we reach the JR a whole different story emerges and we find out any of the parties involved on the Ricoh side have been up to no good but unless that happens, or someone can present evidence of some wrongdoing, I think we need to move on from what ACL and the Ricoh are up to and worry about the club. If we're sitting around waiting for ACL to fail as the catalyst for a move back I think we'll be in for a very long wait.

Well said chief. Just to add, not only will we most likely be in for a long wait if ccfc group of accounts are anything to go by then the club seems most likely to fail first. This is what ccfc fan's should be worrying about but a minority would rather point fingers in other directions. Sisu are perfectly capable of saying "look over there" then running of in the other direction, they don't need our assistance.
 

ccfcway

Well-Known Member
i do know why everyone is having a go at SISU, they have been paying the wages, and aren't even involved in club decisions like witholding rent.
 

DaleM

New Member
i do know why everyone is having a go at SISU, they have been paying the wages, and aren't even involved in club decisions like witholding rent.

Seriously mate do you really believe they let Tim make the decision not to pay the rent . Joy and Dermot pull the strings.
 

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
I actually think the exit fee story is true but needs further clarification. PWKH did post in this thread earlier, if my comment was inaccurate he could have dismissed it there and then.

Where did you read about it?

If it is true are you saying ACL are safe for the next 7 years at least. In which time they can find new business. If SISU build a new stadium?
 

PWKH

New Member
Ian1779

What I posted was:

"When I post here it is usually to try to correct something that is factually incorrect concerning the Charity as Clerk or the AHCT as a Trustee, that is all."

Your 'facts and assumptions' concerned ACL.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Ian1779

What I posted was:

"When I post here it is usually to try to correct something that is factually incorrect concerning the Charity as Clerk or the AHCT as a Trustee, that is all."

Your 'facts and assumptions' concerned ACL.

They were originally questions - not facts or assumptions. I thought you would be happier for fans to ask the question to ascertain facts. Perhaps if all parties involved in this dispute were a little more transparent we might be further along.

I thought as the Higgs Charity partly owns ACL that you may be able to answer my queries. If you cannot that is fine. Perhaps you can direct me to someone that can.
 

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
They were originally questions - not facts or assumptions. I thought you would be happier for fans to ask the question to ascertain facts. Perhaps if all parties involved in this dispute were a little more transparent we might be further along.

I thought as the Higgs Charity partly owns ACL that you may be able to answer my queries. If you cannot that is fine. Perhaps you can direct me to someone that can.

Hi Ian I will try again for the third time
Where did you read on the internet or twitter about the exit fee for Capri. I genuinely can find nothing at all about it?

Also are you suggesting ACL can drip feed that into their accounts over the next seven years or so, making them financially viable whilst they try and drum up new business?
 
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skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
They were originally questions - not facts or assumptions. I thought you would be happier for fans to ask the question to ascertain facts. Perhaps if all parties involved in this dispute were a little more transparent we might be further along.

I thought as the Higgs Charity partly owns ACL that you may be able to answer my queries. If you cannot that is fine. Perhaps you can direct me to someone that can.

Good point. thats why i want to know what the arrangements on tenancy for the club will be under any sisu owned stadium. at the minute we dont know if what sisu is offering the club is better or worse than any agreement that the club has had with ACL or that ACL has offered since. i would also suggest that this is far more important to the club than what the arrangement of a casino pulling out of the ricoh was.

as a fan i'm sure you would agree, after all as fans the best deal for the club is all any of us are/should be interested in.
 

sky blue john

Well-Known Member
Hi Ian I will try again for the third time
Where did you read on the internet or twitter about the exit fee for Capri. I genuinely can find nothing at all about it?

Also are you suggesting ACL can drop feed that into their accounts over the next seven years or so making them financially viable why they try and drum up new business?

Dong don't expect Ian to respond he has selective hearing I believe.
I asked for his opinion on the interest ccfc are paying Arvo and if its sustainable ?
I didn't get a response.
 

sky blue john

Well-Known Member
Good point. thats why i want to know what the arrangements on tenancy for the club will be under any sisu owned stadium. at the minute we dont know if what sisu is offering the club is better or worse than any agreement that the club has had with ACL or that ACL has offered since. i would also suggest that this is far more important to the club than what the arrangement of a casino pulling out of the ricoh was.

as a fan i'm sure you would agree, after all as fans the best deal for the club is all any of us are/should be interested in.

I agree Tony,
But obviously this Ian has a different agenda maybe an Sisu associate that is fishing for the JR ?
 

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
Dong don't expect Ian to respond he has selective hearing I believe.
I asked for his opinion on the interest ccfc are paying Arvo and if its sustainable ?
I didn't get a response.

Maybe if I hacked PWKH's account and asked my question from there I would get an instant response :)

PWKH any chance you could ask Ian my question please ......
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
They were originally questions - not facts or assumptions. I thought you would be happier for fans to ask the question to ascertain facts. Perhaps if all parties involved in this dispute were a little more transparent we might be further along.

It's a nice idea but unlikley to happen until the JR is resolved.
 

sky blue john

Well-Known Member
They were originally questions - not facts or
assumptions. I thought you would be happier for fans to ask the question to ascertain facts. Perhaps if all parties involved in this dispute were a little more transparent we might be further along.

I thought as the Higgs Charity partly owns ACL that you may be able to answer my queries. If you cannot that is fine. Perhaps you can direct me to someone that can.

Lol
Transparency what do you do for your day job Ian ?
Are you on any ccfc related committees ?
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
They were originally questions - not facts or assumptions. I thought you would be happier for fans to ask the question to ascertain facts. Perhaps if all parties involved in this dispute were a little more transparent we might be further along.

I thought as the Higgs Charity partly owns ACL that you may be able to answer my queries. If you cannot that is fine. Perhaps you can direct me to someone that can.

Perhaps if one party admitted they had made an enormous mistake in moving the team with the aim of distressing another company and sought to return then we might be further along.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Here is a link to a document relating to the Isle of Capri exit from Ricoh. You need to select the document on Apr 29 2009. It suggest (unless I've misread it) that a fee was transfer for IoC to ACL of £6,730,543 to end their lease obligations.

Was going to read that until I saw it was 48 pages! What are you driving at here? Its fairly common for leases to have clauses relating to what happens in the event of early termination so I'm not sure why this would be seen as an issue?
 

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
Here is a link to a document relating to the Isle of Capri exit from Ricoh. You need to select the document on Apr 29 2009. It suggest (unless I've misread it) that a fee was transfer for IoC to ACL of £6,730,543 to end their lease obligations.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=68944&p=irol-sec&secCat01.1_rs=281&secCat01.1_rc=10&control_searchbox=&control_selectgroup=0

Thank you

How would I or you as joe blogs fans find such a thing searching on the Internet.

I tried and I was specifically looking for it and could not find it despite using all sorts of open research.

What led you to think that there was such a deal in place and to search it out and find it if you don't mind me asking?

It's very interesting. Do you think like I do if your interpretation of it is correct and ACL do drip release the money they will be viable for a long time.

Meaning SISU are going to have to do one of four things:-

Actually build this stadium
Agree a long term rent deal
Sell CCFC
Buy ACL for an agreeable price for all parties
 
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Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Still not clear that ACL got that money, doing a little looking around I found this thread (you're not that ian too are you?)

http://gamingfloor.biz/forum/showthread.php?t=3371

Seems to suggest it went to Rank, but they seem to be as confused as we are.

No I saw that too.. but it's not me.

The paragraph that seems to confirm it is on Page 2

Item 1.02. Termination of a Material Definitive Agreement
On April 23, 2009, the registrant terminated the Lease, dated February 17, 2007, by and among the registrant, The Isle Casinos Limited, a wholly owned
subsidiary of the registrant (the “Isle UK”), and Arena Coventry Limited (the “Coventry Lease”). The termination was effected pursuant to a transaction in
which the Isle UK transferred its interest in the Coventry Lease, along with approximately $11.2 million, to Arena Coventry (2006) Limited (the
“Transferee”), a wholly owned subsidiary of Arena Coventry Limited.
Pursuant to a License to Assign Property, Arena Coventry Limited granted a license to
the Isle UK to assign the Coventry Lease and released the Isle UK and the registrant from their obligations under the Coventry Lease.
A copy of the transfer documentation is attached hereto as Exhibit 99.1 and a copy of the License to Assign Property is attached hereto as Exhibit 99.2 and
each is incorporated herein by reference.
 
Ian, I am interested to understand why a payment made 5 years ago (at a time when there was no row between ACL and Club) Have you investigated the ACL accounts of the time to see how funds were dispersed?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I can't find it now, but one of the links I went to said something about transferring rent liabilities, that's what made me think that some went to Rank.

To be honest, I'm well out my depth here and with these kind of documents can easily end up thinking it says the exact opposite of what it does.

Someone switch on the OSB signal.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Ian, I am interested to understand why a payment made 5 years ago (at a time when there was no row between ACL and Club) Have you investigated the ACL accounts of the time to see how funds were dispersed?

I can't find it. Certainly not for that value. I do know however that it is common practice for business to distribute larger sums of money over a period of time in their accounts. This is where my questions all came from. If that amount is being dispersed over time, how much per year? How many years?
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
They were originally questions - not facts or assumptions. I thought you would be happier for fans to ask the question to ascertain facts. Perhaps if all parties involved in this dispute were a little more transparent we might be further along.

I thought as the Higgs Charity partly owns ACL that you may be able to answer my queries. If you cannot that is fine. Perhaps you can direct me to someone that can.

All in favour of digging stuff out, though again I've got to say that your motive for this seems to be to 'prove' that ACL isn't sustainable.

Have I read that correctly?
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
I can't find it now, but one of the links I went to said something about transferring rent liabilities, that's what made me think that some went to Rank.

To be honest, I'm well out my depth here and with these kind of documents can easily end up thinking it says the exact opposite of what it does.

Someone switch on the OSB signal.

Remember when Rank took over from Isle of Capri, we'd had enough stick for the big parrot on the side of the Ricoh, having a great big Rank sign up would have been too close to the truth under the Coleman years.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Just to go back to the OP for a second. What happened with that challenge of Holdings liquidation? I believe PWKH said it was nothing to do with them at the time (could be wrong), it all seems to have gone quiet about that, shouldn't it be done by now?

Back to what we're talking about, http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/arena-coventry fancy paying £5 for the 2010 accounts to see if it's in there?
 

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
All in favour of digging stuff out, though again I've got to say that your motive for this seems to be to 'prove' that ACL isn't sustainable.

Have I read that correctly?

Yet to me it seems to be doing the opposite. Sounds like this money if it is correct could replace the withdrawn money from the anchor tenant for a few years whilst they try and find other business.

Meanwhile SISU will need to come good on the 25 million for a new stadium.
 
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