sisu are not good for our club - well someone's got to say it! (5 Viewers)

[ccfc92]

Whilst I don't disagree the aim of this bailout seems to me to be specifically about fan ownership not jus another owner per se.


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that worries me aswel. Imagine CCFC fans in charge of CCFC, we can't even be bothered with the club half the time :facepalm: (general comment, not aimed at anyone)

 

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[ccfc92]

That would be like asking how much CCFC is worth, although CCFC's worth will be negative with all the debt it is in and running at a loss of millions a year because the club has been taken away from it's supporters.

Something is only worth as much as it can be sold for. It's value isn't just what one person/company/hedge fund would say it is worth. And the Ricoh and ACL are worth more than SISU would ever pay if that is what you are aiming at. They have wasted many millions trying to get a few millions knocked off the price. And it isn't over yet.

stand by from the usual suspects

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Lost me on point one...

"priority is its own profits, not the team and fans"

Tell me ONE owner that is in it for the team or fans??? They are only in it for themselves! Human nature. We only support the club for the success factor...err or the vain hope of success...or the love of moaning about our lot...or self loathing


PUSB

 

[Bennets Afro]

I'm thinking that most people think that ACL/ Ricoh is worth a lot more than what it actually is that's all.

An independent valuation might upset a few people too if it's lower then expectations.

The last evaluation of ACL I heard was £6m with the club still there paying rent

 

[stupot07]

No hedge fund has the right to expect someone (a local charity and local council) to just give/let go for well under value an arena that is much more than a football stadium to the hedge fund (a dodgy set up it could be said) so they can make their investors money and not go to the football club.

Never said they should.


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[ccfc92]

I'm thinking that most people think that ACL/ Ricoh is worth a lot more than what it actually is that's all.

An independent valuation might upset a few people too if it's lower then expectations.

The last evaluation of ACL I heard was £6m with the club still there paying rent

agreed. but we need an evaluation on the Ricoh IMO, acl are completely different.

bit like saying a car is worth this much because it had one female owner from new

 

[rupert_bear]

Say what you like SISU are no good, never have been since the day they walked in, they have painted themselves into a corner and IMO would love a way out but don't know how and save face. If you don't believe that why only this week did Mark Labovitch suggest that bloke in America looking to raise this 3 million quid through donations to contact the owners. IF the club is not available, IF they are to build this new stadium and IF they are on the verge of purchasing the required land why would he suggest contacting our owner ?

 

[Bennets Afro]

agreed. but we need an evaluation on the Ricoh IMO, acl are completely different.

bit like saying a car is worth this much because it had one female owner from new

Very true.

Then ACL/ SISU should both get an evaluation of both ACL and the Ricoh.

Then we will have a starting point for any meaningful talks going forward

 

[lewys33]

This whole ACL is worth £6 mill "with us paying rent" is bullshit........

So to save a couple of mill the club was moved to Northampton? Yes now it all makes sense...... NOT

 

[ccfc92]

Very true.

Then ACL/ SISU should both get an evaluation of both ACL and the Ricoh.

Then we will have a starting point for any meaningful talks going forward

what is this strange thing called common sense you are using? :thinking about:

 

[skybluetony176]

How will the fan ownership cover losses of being at the Ricoh or any other ground?

Who are these co-investors, what do they get for investing money? How much will they invest?


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You say that like the club only had losses because of the rent at the Ricoh. We all know that's not the case and the rent offers have moved on considerably since we were last at the ricoh.

Sound bites can be misleading.

 

[whiteheadj]

Well said Michael.

It seems you've already had some replies from the extremists.

How will the fan ownership cover losses of being at the Ricoh or any other ground?

Who are these co-investors, what do they get for investing money? How much will they invest?


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May I ask how you have come to the conclusion we will make a loss if we were at the Ricoh? You must have some forecasts to have predicted that, especially as there would most likely be a massively reduced rent. And then factor in your attendances would be tenfold what you get at the moment.

Btw I would like a fan owned or majority owned club like the German system at least we would get some transparency with what's going on behind closed doors.

 

[lewys33]

what is this strange thing called common sense you are using? :thinking about:

I think it's much more common sense to talk about a 125 year lease.

 

[Astute]

I'm thinking that most people think that ACL/ Ricoh is worth a lot more than what it actually is that's all.

An independent valuation might upset a few people too if it's lower then expectations.

The last evaluation of ACL I heard was £6m with the club still there paying rent

I would buy it for 6m. Have you been listening to a SISU valuation?

 

[stupot07]

You say that like the club only had losses because of the rent at the Ricoh. We all know that's not the case and the rent offers have moved on considerably since we were last at the ricoh.

Sound bites can be misleading.

Not misleading Tony, you're reading something that's not there:

"How will the fan ownership cover losses of being at the Ricoh or any other ground?"

We lost £7m last year whilst not paying rent. (Yes our outgoings have been trimmed since then)


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[stupot07]

May I ask how you have come to the conclusion we will make a loss if we were at the Ricoh? You must have some forecasts to have predicted that, especially as there would most likely be a massively reduced rent. And then factor in your attendances would be tenfold what you get at the moment.

Btw I would like a fan owned or majority owned club like the German system at least we would get some transparency with what's going on behind closed doors.

We lost £7m last year at the Ricoh whilst we were not paying any rent. Yes we have trimmed costs, but I would still expect losses.

The German model works great in Germany because all clubs have to adhere to it, the clubs with 51%+ fan ownership are all in league two or lower.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_football_club_owners


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[letsallsingtogether]

The same can be said about the ones who believe it is worth nothing?

I'm thinking that most people think that ACL/ Ricoh is worth a lot more than what it actually is that's all.

An independent valuation might upset a few people too if it's lower then expectations.

The last evaluation of ACL I heard was £6m with the club still there paying rent

 

[Astute]

Not misleading Tony, you're reading something that's not there:

"How will the fan ownership cover losses of being at the Ricoh or any other ground?"

We lost £7m last year whilst not paying rent. (Yes our outgoings have been trimmed since then)


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So they never paid the rent in Northampton either? :claping hands:

Our wage bill was nowhere near the loss. Must be made up by a lot of interest payments, management fees and legal charges. Somebody will have to pay for all this litigation after all.

 

[ajsccfc]

Evil, Extremists, Usual Suspects and (Three) Amigos.

It's flouncy drama Sunday on Skybluestalk!

 

[ccfc92]

We lost £7m last year at the Ricoh whilst we were not paying any rent. Yes we have trimmed costs, but I would still expect losses.

The German model works great in Germany because all clubs have to adhere to it, the clubs with 51%+ fan ownership are all in league two or lower.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_football_club_owners


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so the top league of german football has normal owners?

 

[lewys33]

Not misleading Tony, you're reading something that's not there:

"How will the fan ownership cover losses of being at the Ricoh or any other ground?"

We lost £7m last year whilst not paying rent. (Yes our outgoings have been trimmed since then)


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Realistically there are no buyers for us as we stand. The only way it's going to get better is if they all bite the bullet.

Acl need to realise the stadium was built for our club.

Sisu need to realise whilst they own CCFC they will have to have ties with CCC. For the good of the club and their investments.

easier said than done - but they need to make an offer for all of ACL. Then the council need to extend the lease to 125 years for £1.

 

[ajsccfc]

so the top league of german football has normal owners?

The line before the one you bolded answers that already, it's the main crux of his point.

 

[ccfc92]

So they never paid the rent in Northampton either? :claping hands:

Our wage bill was nowhere near the loss. Must be made up by a lot of interest payments, management fees and legal charges. Somebody will have to pay for all this litigation after all.

This is what many pro-sisu don't realise. they look at the figures of -£(7million) and assume it's due to the rent.

I don't pretend to be a mathematician, but a simple 10,000 x £15 x 23 = £3,450,000. 18 players X 3k per week (a rough average wage?) x 52 weeks (assuming they get payed for the whole calender year) = £2,808,000.

£3,450,000 - £2,808,000 = £642,000 profit

I haven't taken into account sponsorship, prize money etc aswel as general staff wages, but I assume they more or less cancel each other out.

so add on the interest of previous debts and there's your -£7,000,000 a very good reason to leave the ricoh

 

[stupot07]

So they never paid the rent in Northampton either? :claping hands:

Our wage bill was nowhere near the loss. Must be made up by a lot of interest payments, management fees and legal charges. Somebody will have to pay for all this litigation after all.

The 2013 accounts

Sky Blue Sports & Leisure 2013 accounts http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/showthread.php?t=42971


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[ajsccfc]

This is what many pro-sisu don't realise.

Who are these people?

 

[Ian1779]

Nice one Michael... What happened to 'we're not anti SISU/ACL - we're pro team' ?

Has someone been in your ear promising you the world if we can get the bad SISU people? 'Yes Michael you can be on the fans board...'

I don't know what's more of a joke...

 

[ccfc92]

The line before the one you bolded answers that already, it's the main crux of his point.

thanks for clarifying my point is, people pine for the german way of clubs, yet miss the fact the big clubs are not fan owned?

 

[stupot07]

This is what many pro-sisu don't realise. they look at the figures of -£(7million) and assume it's due to the rent.

I don't pretend to be a mathematician, but a simple 10,000 x £15 x 23 = £3,450,000. 18 players X 3k per week (a rough average wage?) x 52 weeks (assuming they get payed for the whole calender year) = £2,808,000.

£3,450,000 - £2,808,000 = £642,000 profit

I haven't taken into account sponsorship, prize money etc aswel as general staff wages, but I assume they more or less cancel each other out.

so add on the interest of previous debts and there's your -£7,000,000 a very good reason to leave the ricoh

Ofcourse it's not due to rent. It's operating costs.

Not having a go at you, but people think that the only costs are the players wages.


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[ccfc92]

Who are these people?

those that say we should leave coventry as we are losing money

 

[ccfc92]

Ofcourse it's not due to rent. It's operating costs.

Not having a go at you, but people think that the only costs are the players wages.


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completely agree, and that's why I said:

I haven't taken into account sponsorship, prize money etc aswel as general staff wages, but I assume they more or less cancel each other out.

but surely cutting income by 90% is not a good tactic?

 

[ajsccfc]

Who's saying that? I don't recall much popping of champagne corks when we cleared out from the Ricoh.

 

[skybluetony176]

Nice one Michael... What happened to 'we're not anti SISU/ACL - we're pro team' ?

Has someone been in your ear promising you the world if we can get the bad SISU people? 'Yes Michael you can be on the fans board...'

I don't know what's more of a joke...

So you think sisu have been good for the team?

 

[stupot07]

completely agree, and that's why I said:

I haven't taken into account sponsorship, prize money etc aswel as general staff wages, but I assume they more or less cancel each other out.

but surely cutting income by 90% is not a good tactic?

Of course not. The move to Sixfields makes no economic sense. Although technically in the 2013 accounts ticket sales only comprise of 43% of our turnover.


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[ccfc92]

Of course not. The move to Sixfields makes no economic sense. Although technically in the 2013 accounts ticket sales only comprise of 43% of our turnover.


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will hate to read 2014 accounts then

don't forget, add on merchandise, sponsorship etc to that 43%

it's a very grey area within exact figures in front of us all unfortunately

 

[ajsccfc]

So you think sisu have been good for the team?

Is this really the logic of a forum held up as an intellectual powerhouse only this morning?