Ross Allen (4 Viewers)

[mark82]

Excellent Venn diagram that explains the differences between England, Great Britain and the United Kingdom ("Great" means "large" by the way it's not trying to be a boastful name meaning "fantastic").

The only prob with the Venn is that Ireland (the Republic of) don't call the overall islands "British Isles" because they left the UK 90 years ago and the term annoys them.

But, rightly, we don't call it Eire. We call it Ireland. Just like we don't call Germany Deutchland. Or Italy Italia.

We might have got slightly off topic...

Doesn't matter what the Irish want to call them British Isles is the name of the archipelago. They can call it what they like but it doesn't change that fact. They left the United Kingdom, Great Britain they were never part of and British Isles isn't something they can opt out of.

 

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[shmmeee]

Where you get that from? An old colonial map? Ireland is Eire for a start and UK is related to the monarchy not to do with land. Other than that its marvellous.

I just Googled it, I didn't mean to restart the troubles

 

[mark82]

Only thing I can see wrong is I don't believe channel islands are part of the British Isles (geographically speaking), rather islands off the French coast that are a British Crown Dependancy. They are in the British Isles common travel area which is where the confusion might be (i.e. you don't necessarily need a passport to travel there - which also applies to Ireland).

 

[Monners]

Doesn't matter what the Irish want to call them British Isles is the name of the archipelago. They can call it what they like but it doesn't change that fact. They left the United Kingdom, Great Britain they were never part of and British Isles isn't something they can opt out of.

The Irish can call it what like, but it isn't something they can opt out of? Sorry, a bit contradictory. It could be they don't like to refer to being part of the British Isles due to hundreds of years of unwanted colonial rule. Just putting it out there!

 

[shmmeee]

Only thing I can see wrong is I don't believe channel islands are part of the British Isles (geographically speaking), rather islands off the French coast that are a British Crown Dependancy. They are in the British Isles common travel area which is where the confusion might be (i.e. you don't necessarily need a passport to travel there - which also applies to Ireland).

Bugger. This is the first one I posted, then I edited it 'cos I wasn't sure:

 

[Monners]

There is indeed passport free passage between GB/UK and Ireland. Also, Irish people born before 1948 are allowed British citizenship (part of the agreement on independance). We are all Euorpeans afterall!

Isn't politics complex Shmmeee

 

[mark82]

The Irish can call it what like, but it isn't something they can opt out of? Sorry, a bit contradictory. It could be they don't like to refer to being part of the British Isles due to hundreds of years of unwanted colonial rule. Just putting it out there!

It's the name of the archipelago. They may like to refer to it as something else but they are still part of the British Isles archipelago. Unless they want to remove themselves a few hundred miles into the Atlantic ocean. Think you may be getting confused between British Isles, which are the physical islands and United Kingdom which is the country.

 

[Monners]

It's the name of the archipelago. They may like to refer to it as something else but they are still part of the British Isles archipelago. Unless they want to remove themselves a few hundred miles into the Atlantic ocean. Think you may be getting confused between British Isles, which are the physical islands and United Kingdom which is the country.

There is no confusion Mark I can assure you. Not to worry.

 

[mark82]

There is no confusion Mark I can assure you. Not to worry.

I'm aware the Irish government don't like to use the term "British Isles" but it doesn't change the fact they are part of the archipelago. That is a political thing not a geographical one. Glad you now accept Ireland is in the British Isles.

Are you Irish yourself?
(By that I mean real Irish and not one of these that has an Irish grandma, supports Celtic and calls themselves part-Irish)

 

[dongonzalos]

I'm aware the Irish government don't like to use the term "British Isles" but it doesn't change the fact they are part of the archipelago. That is a political thing not a geographical one. Glad you now accept Ireland is in the British Isles.

Are you Irish yourself?
(By that I mean real Irish and not one of these that has an Irish grandma, supports Celtic and calls themselves part-Irish)

What is someone with Irish grandparents?

 

[Monners]

I'm aware the Irish government don't like to use the term "British Isles" but it doesn't change the fact they are part of the archipelago. That is a political thing not a geographical one. Glad you now accept Ireland is in the British Isles.

Are you Irish yourself?
(By that I mean real Irish and not one of these that has an Irish grandma, supports Celtic and calls themselves part-Irish)

My point was (although I was only passing the time of day when it came to Shmmeees rather impressive diagram), was that the Irish in my experience rarely if ever refer as being part of the British Isles. The reasons for this are obvious. The Empire is gone Mark - let it go! (I am again only messing). My family is Irish going back for generations - if you look hard enough, you are likely to find that some of yours maybe.


Edit: Yes I am Irish

 

[dongonzalos]

My point was (although I was only passing the time of day when it came to Shmmeees rather impressive diagram), was that the Irish in my experience rarely if ever refer as being part of the British Isles. The reasons for this are obvious. The Empire is gone Mark - let it go! (I am again only messing). My family is Irish going back for generations - if you look hard enough, you are likely to find that some of yours maybe.

To be fair if you have Irish grandparents
You can have citizenship and an Irish passport if you want it. So those who call themselves 'part Irish' are well within their rights to be fair.

Just like a Pakistani who calls themselves Pakistani but their parents were born here.

It's not a bad thing for people to be proud of their heritage

Eire is definitely geographically in the British Isles.

 

[Nick]

Just have to look at andy townsend to see a real Irish man!

 

[dongonzalos]

Andy Townsend's grandmother came from Castleisland in County Kerry.

 

[dongonzalos]

Luckily for us John Barnes had a British passport otherwise we may never had seen that goal against Brazil I believe he has no blood ties at all?

 

[mark82]

What is someone with Irish grandparents?

If they were born in England, British.
If they were born in France, French.
Etc...

On a more technical level, it depends on your passport.

 

[mark82]

To be fair if you have Irish grandparents
You can have citizenship and an Irish passport if you want it. So those who call themselves 'part Irish' are well within their rights to be fair.

Just like a Pakistani who calls themselves Pakistani but their parents were born here.

It's not a bad thing for people to be proud of their heritage

Eire is definitely geographically in the British Isles.

Not saying you shouldn't be proud of your heritage, everyone should be. You would be English of Irish heritage though.

Could you actually get an Irish passport if you have an Irish grandparent? Or is that just something they use to get footballers who are not good enough to play for England to play for them? I always assumed the latter.

 

[mark82]

My point was (although I was only passing the time of day when it came to Shmmeees rather impressive diagram), was that the Irish in my experience rarely if ever refer as being part of the British Isles. The reasons for this are obvious. The Empire is gone Mark - let it go! (I am again only messing). My family is Irish going back for generations - if you look hard enough, you are likely to find that some of yours maybe.


Edit: Yes I am Irish

Understand the reasons. Doesn't make them correct though. As I say, whether you call them the British Isles, the Irish Isles the Atlantic Isles or the Isles With No Name they are still part of the archipelago commonly known as the British Isles, a name which has been around the best part of 3000 years and derives from the CELTIC word for the islands.

 

[dongonzalos]

Not saying you shouldn't be proud of your heritage, everyone should be. You would be English of Irish heritage though.

Could you actually get an Irish passport if you have an Irish grandparent? Or is that just something they use to get footballers who are not good enough to play for England to play for them? I always assumed the latter.

So if they are English with Irish heritage, their parents parents that reads to me 'part Irish'.
So those who call themselves that are right to be fair.
Yes you can get a passport if you grandparents come from that country. You qualify for citizenship then you can get the passport.

 

[dongonzalos]

If they were born in England, British.
If they were born in France, French.
Etc...

On a more technical level, it depends on your passport.

And if you have both passports?

 

[dongonzalos]

If they were born in England, British.
If they were born in France, French.
Etc...

On a more technical level, it depends on your passport.

That makes Owen Hardgreaves a Canadian who played for England
John Barnes a Jamaican who played for England.

Hey ho each to their own but for me Owen Hargreaves was part English

 

[Ceremony81]

Very good point about the Celtic word for the islands. National borders are arbitrary creations of man so ultimately names don't matter. On the other hand, the very reason these definitions are made explains why some people may take umbrage in the first place. Thus, the echoes of imperialism still resonate with many Irish natives and diaspora - and for good reason. The use of the word 'British' when referring to Irish territory is, I feel, erroneous. Thus, I deign to call the area The Irish Isles, and that includes Bergerac and those other islands where they speak French in the Irish Channel.

btw I'm a new member and I talk bollox

 

[dongonzalos]

Not saying you shouldn't be proud of your heritage, everyone should be. You would be English of Irish heritage though.

Could you actually get an Irish passport if you have an Irish grandparent? Or is that just something they use to get footballers who are not good enough to play for England to play for them? I always assumed the latter.

How have we faired against Ireland since they started picking those players who are not good enough for England?

Without checking the stats I think we have really struggled to beat our rejects since the late 80's early 90's.

 

[Ceremony81]

Terry Butcher is a true Singaporean. Matt Prior is South African. The Duke of Wellington was born in Dublin.

Cliff Richard is Indian.

Nationalists.

 

[shmmeee]

btw I'm a new member and I talk bollox

Welcome. You'll fit right in

 

[torchomatic]

I hope there's a New Order thing going on with your username there.

Very good point about the Celtic word for the islands. National borders are arbitrary creations of man so ultimately names don't matter. On the other hand, the very reason these definitions are made explains why some people may take umbrage in the first place. Thus, the echoes of imperialism still resonate with many Irish natives and diaspora - and for good reason. The use of the word 'British' when referring to Irish territory is, I feel, erroneous. Thus, I deign to call the area The Irish Isles, and that includes Bergerac and those other islands where they speak French in the Irish Channel.

btw I'm a new member and I talk bollox

 

[skybluedan]

So if they are English with Irish heritage, their parents parents that reads to me 'part Irish'.
So those who call themselves that are right to be fair.
Yes you can get a passport if you grandparents come from that country. You qualify for citizenship then you can get the passport.

I used to have auk passport but when it ran out I just got one here in jersey only just realised now I have a jersey passport I've had it for about 5 years now as well!!
On another note it's going to be 27 degrees here tomorrow I can get on the beach in less then a minute and I've got me a day off"................get in!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mark82]

That makes Owen Hardgreaves a Canadian who played for England
John Barnes a Jamaican who played for England.

Hey ho each to their own but for me Owen Hargreaves was part English

Both had British passports I expect but, yes, probably correct. Wasn't Raheem Sterling Jamaica born also?

 

[mark82]

And if you have both passports?

Dual nationality.

 

[mark82]

To be honest, I have no issue with people pretending to be part Irish and supporting Ireland despite never having even visiting the country, I just find it funny. Each to their own.

 

[Nick]

To be honest, I have no issue with people pretending to be part Irish and supporting Ireland despite never having even visiting the country, I just find it funny. Each to their own.

Have you seen the pubs on paddys day?

 

[dongonzalos]

To be honest, I have no issue with people pretending to be part Irish and supporting Ireland despite never having even visiting the country, I just find it funny. Each to their own.

Sounds like the people you were referring to as calling themselves part Irish because of their grandmother actually are part Irish

 

[dongonzalos]

Have you seen the pubs on paddys day?

You should see them in America

 

[duffer]

Meh, fwiw Irish father, English mother. Would always support England over Ireland in sport, since that's my country of birth, but have no problem with those who celebrate their heritage more than me, even if it's technically more distant. It's handy having two teams to support, especially in the six nations!

I never knew the thing about the geographical British Isles, ignoramus that I am, but I can guess that it would tend to wind up some people over the water. For most though, they've moved on past all that bollocks now... good thing too.*

If it came to it I'd prefer to be thought of as English, rather than British though. And I don't vote UKIP, by the way.

*Edit: With apologies to our new poster, btw. He's quite right in that calling Ireland part of the British Isles would likely chafe with some people, despite as I now know being technically correct. It's different to calling it part of Britain, which would definitely meet with some dislike.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

If it came to it I'd prefer to be thought of as English, rather than British though. And I don't vote UKIP, by the way.

English Democrats?

[video=youtube;NJYctoNKbcE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJYctoNKbcE[/video]