Acl to comment on Ricoh arena position (5 Viewers)

[DaleM]

Who's going to pay 400k a year rent and matchday costs for cov united?

Michael could always ask the same jokers who offered to pay for CCFC if crowds were below 5000.

 

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[shmmeee]

IMHO the FL had to promise the £590k would be paid
ACL were considered a "Football creditor" and they MUST be paid, ACL haven't been paid so what next?

I dread to think

If you want to read more

How are ACL a football creditor?

 

[duffer]

No different to what SISU have been doing for about a year and a half, everything that come from SISU is unhelpful.

I think it a little disingenuous of you to pick on this statement by ACL. Strongly worded it may be, but it's factual and quite frankly I don't blame them.

You're not going to get any argument from me about SISU and what they've done.

And with respect, I'm not being disingenuous here either, at least to my understanding of the word. There's nothing hidden here that I'm aware of; ACL have stated what they want, and I'm saying that in this case it doesn't help us get back to the Ricoh.

If both sides take fixed points before talking (ACL want the £590k, SISU want match-day revenue) then I can't see much hope of talks ever starting. In that case both sides lose, imho, and the chances of coming back recede rapidly.

 

[ArchieLittle]

Why didn't the FL just insist on the money being paid last August before handing the Golden Share over?

All too late in the day, they were trying to organise it the day before the start of the season.
Nothing like keeping it all until the last minute.........

 

[Kingokings204]

thats all the assets sold off,money syphoned off into sub companies,liquidation so as to avoid paying creditors full whack.then debt held against CCFC to be written up to offset corporate tax. oh the fun of being owned by a hedge fund.

A comment taken from CT and I think rings so true. It's coming.

 

[Cranfield Sky Blue]

In the mad world of football finance and CCFC debt mountain, it hides the fact that in most walks of life £590,000 is a shit load of cash that few companies can afford to ignore!!

 

[ArchieLittle]

How are ACL a football creditor?

They provided CCFC's security of tenure in having a ground to play football in, as part of the FL requirements clubs must have "freehold or have a minimum of 10 years unexpired period of lease" on their ground

Unless of course the FL agree to "special circumstances"

 

[Godiva]

If nothing else, I think this shows the importance of club and stadium being fully united under SBS&L.

The statement can be read in many ways, but not really as a 'come let's talk'.
Is it a sign that ACL is not in a position to offer any discount, but badly need all the cash?
Like earlier (in 2012) when they were not in a position to offer the rent level requested by the club?

On the other hand, ACL are owed money. OSB may well be right that they are owed the full amount, but without knowing the exact wording of the agreement with the FL ... and keep in mind that sisu may have had some influence on the agreement ... we cannot know if McGinnity/Robinson have paid some of the debt.
Oh, and should it be that McGinnity/Robinson actually have paid some of the debt, then the amount owed to ACL is not reduced by £300t but £500t. The discount ACL gave will still count towards reducing the debt.
But as we don't know the wording, we can't really say how much ACL are owed, and since it is 6 weeks overdue already it seems that the FL are in doubt too.

 

[Cheshire Sky Blue]

Have you seen any solid evidence to show the money is in escrow? If it was the FL could issue a quick statement saying we are holding the money and will make a decision on what is owed. And if there is a dispute surely they need to speak to ACL and sort it out, should take about 5 minutes not weeks. I find it hard to see where the dispute is, the £590K in the CVA was not a rent payment even before you consider the £590K ordered to be paid by the FL is not part of CVA or any other agreement.

It seems very simple to me, SISU were told to pay £590K (not for rent or any other purpose a straight payment) by a certain date and haven't. First we had them saying it would definitely be paid before the deadline, then it was late due to banking issues and now we've got we don't think we have to pay it, doesn't fill me with confidence.

Points can be docked until a few weeks before the end of the season so while I hope we don't get a further deduction I don't think we can conclude from the fact it hasn't happened yet that it won't happen.

I think that points can be deducted at any time before relegation and promotion is clarified.

 

[torchomatic]

The match days cost will be sized accordingly & you know it.

But don't acl have bills to pay?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

To be fair (and I can't believe I am going to say this.....) I actually back ACL on this stance, if your ACL and you are willing to allow the Club to return you'd want all outstanding monies paid before a deal was made, it's not like Sisu to skip out on rent is it?

That being said I think ACL could have worded it a bit less stronger, that way negotiations may have been a bit more forecoming..


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[bigfatronssba]

To be fair (and I can't believe I am going to say this.....) I actually back ACL on this stance, if your ACL and you are willing to allow the Club to return you'd want all outstanding monies paid before a deal was made, it's not like Sisu to skip out on rent is it?

That being said I think ACL could have worded it a bit less stronger, that way negotiations may have been a bit more forecoming..


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My opinion too.

I agree with what has been said in the letter, I just don't think it has been worded well.

Would have been so much better if they had just said "Drop the legal action, pay your outstanding debts, and then lets talk about getting the club back to the Ricoh".

 

[RoboCCFC90]

My opinion too.

I agree with what has been said in the letter, I just don't think it has been worded well.

Would have been so much better if they had just said "Drop the legal action, pay your outstanding debts, and then lets talk about getting the club back to the Ricoh".

Exactly. With the Club receiving in near enough £3,000,000 from Cyrus Christie and Callum Wilson deals it would easily be affordable as well.

I am sure ACL are fed up among with the rest of us though regarding the stupid stance the FL has taken over this.


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[Cheshire Sky Blue]

Maybe an official CCFC phoenix team.

But why exactly are we blinkered?

I think the suggestion was to support the Reverends theory that an additional tenant with potential would put pressure on SISU to start talking. Not a suggestion that we dump CCFC. (the later may be out of our control over the next few weeks anyway)

 

[wingy]

I think there Is a reason for this comment ,and It's reactive to a little bit of Propaganda emanating out of the clubs consultations with fans ,one or two on here may be aware.

 

[skybluefred]

Doesn't matter if you are pro ACL, anti ACL, pro Sisu, anti Sisu! This statement doesn't do anything to move us forwards and resolve the situation.

Very stongly worded. The same statement could have been made with a bit more of a concilliatory stance.

This one is 'you will do as you are told.' We need give and take, from both sides.

When you are dealing with a hedge fund, especially one that doesn't pay it's dues, you tell them exactly what the deal is. You pay your dues
or you don,t get back to the Ricoh. I hope the next step is ACL sue sisu in the High Court to get the money owed.

 

[Grendel]

When you are dealing with a hedge fund, especially one that doesn't pay it's dues, you tell them exactly what the deal is. You pay your dues
or you don,t get back to the Ricoh. I hope the next step is ACL sue sisu in the High Court to get the money owed.

Yeah that will help

 

[oldskyblue58]

here is a thought for you ...... the Alan Higgs centre took a similar stance of pay what you owe before we talk. Obviously the figures are much less but its the same principle. The academy now have an (3yr ?) agreement at allard way.... seems to have worked

As for Lucas taking control do you think that the council were not aware of the statement made - they have two council officers as directors of ACL. It would be reasonable given what has gone on in the last 18months to assume somewhat better communication between ACL and its stakeholders. There is only a rent deal available in my opinion and Lucas is not in a position to offer that - the directors of ACL are

Are ACL in a position of weakness to make this statement? Offer a discount on what? there is no rental agreement in place and surely the ACL financial plans have to be set up ignoring the club coming back or the receipt of the £590k to do otherwise would be irresponsible by the directors surely?

We do not know what is the detail of the OEG/FL agreement certainly. We do know the details of the FL insolvency policy. The fact that any sum is still outstanding and not paid seems to me to be in breach of that FL policy. Whilst ACL might state that the money must be paid they have no contractual right to recover it. However the FL has the right to demand payment.

Still comes back to a much bigger picture - the principle of the football creditors rule is potentially at risk. The FL must decide who to back and make a decision. Or put a different way in one or another for or against - grow some!

 

[Snozz_is_god]

I think the suggestion was to support the Reverends theory that an additional tenant with potential would put pressure on SISU to start talking. Not a suggestion that we dump CCFC. (the later may be out of our control over the next few weeks anyway)

well at least someone has the intelligence to get it, thank you CSB

 

[Chez78]

I said a few weeks ago if we sell Wilson and don't return home this season I'm done.

Well it's been a pleasure. I'm out.

What!!!!! You're not even bowing out with comical wrestling GIF???

Go on I've been waiting for this thread to be summed up with one of those

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'm not generally against ACL, who I think have largely been the wronged party in all of this. However, I can't see this statement as in any way helpful - this looks a lot like closing doors rather than opening them.

The FL have a lot to answer for here - and not for the first time. Having decided not to accept the CVA (an action which I can understand given all of the shenanigans around asset transfers and golden shares), I think ACL gave up the right to that £590k. But the FL, after saying they weren't going to get involved in a dispute between landlord and tenant, then stepped right into the middle of it by insisting that Otium behaved as though there was a CVA. That is beyond understanding, for me. To then let it all slide, is absoultely pathetic. The FL is utterly worthless as an organisation. They should buy a £40 app to organise the fixtures, stick the answering machine on, and then all f*ck off somewhere warm for a year until it's time to run the app again. Things would run much more smoothly.

Regardless, for ACL to then make the payment of the £590k a condition of return doesn't seem quite right to me. Like everything else it should be a subject for negotiation whilst the club returns on a short-term rental deal. If those negotiations fail, then it's up to SISU to build a new stadium, and ACL to get on with their business without CCFC. What's just happened is a massive backwards step, imho, and I'm really disappointed that ACL have felt the need to start another public war of words...

It's the confrontational do it or else that doesn't really help.

Surely we know by now that provokes the 'or else'!

Anyway, how hard is it for the league to say that it's a payment due or not?!? The problem here is theirs for not being able or willing to answer the question!

 

[Mr Creosote]

In negotiations you can afford to take a strong position when you have an ace up your sleeve. Perhaps ACL have an ace and they are not declaring it yet! SISU wankers are too arrogant to see it coming

 

[CCFC PimpRail]

No Aces, I don't even think it's a message to Sisue. It's for all those who think the club should automatically return, by saying Sisue are as sloppy as an Eel, and they're not prepared to cut them any slack. It also makes good ethical business, something Joy doesn't do...

 

[M&B Stand]

I am getting so fucked off by this constant shit.

Couldn't put it better

 

[Snozz_is_god]

It's the confrontational do it or else that doesn't really help.

Surely we know by now that provokes the 'or else'!

As I said before this is exactly the tone SISU have adopted for the last year & a half. I don't blame ACL one little bit.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

As I said before this is exactly the tone SISU have adopted for the last year & a half. I don't blame ACL one little bit.

So where's the fresh start?

Where's the desire to move on?

Where's the tone to help make a deal?

Nothing ever changes does it? It's almost like they want to push them to do the 'or else'!

 

[mark82]

ACL showing themselves for what they are. This kind of confrontational approach is just going to give sisu an excuse not to bother. Thanks ACL.

 

[Snozz_is_god]

ACL showing themselves for what they are. This kind of confrontational approach is just going to give sisu an excuse not to bother. Thanks ACL.

once again, SISU have been using this confrontational approch for the last year & half. Good on ACL, play them at their own game.

 

[blueflint]

Weeks and months of Sisu's lies and bluster, not paying a legally binding rent, not paying what they owe as instructed, forcing a six figure sum upon the taxpayers of Coventry with yet more to come; and yet one statement form ACL suggesting they won't deal with these bloodsuckers until they get what they are owed, and out come the fickle brigade. If it all goes tits up, it will be ACL's fault. Unbelievable.

its all gone tits up and its definitely the fault of SISU

 

[Snozz_is_god]

So where's the fresh start?

Where's the desire to move on?

Where's the tone to help make a deal?

Nothing ever changes does it? It's almost like they want to push them to do the 'or else'!

You must realise the balls in SISU's court, only they can bring the club back, how about having a go at SISU.

where's SISU's frest start?, where's the desire from SISU to move on? Where's the tone from SISU to make a deal?

I appauld ACL for having the balls to say it straight, nothing in their statement is spin, it's all the truth, it just some of you don't want to accept it?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You must realise the balls in SISU's court, only they can bring the club back, how about having a go at SISU.

where's SISU's frest start?, where's the desire from SISU to move on? Where's the tone from SISU to make a deal?

I appauld ACL for having the balls to say it straight, nothing in their statement is spin, it's all the truth, it just some of you don't want to accept it?

This is what really fucks me off, that for some reason I'm not allowed to have a go at both, it has to be one or the other.

How about, in this instance, in my view ACL are harming the return of our club, so ACL should be pulled up on it?!?

 

[skybluetony176]

@ OSB58 & Simon Gilbert

Am I right in thinking that ACL asked the FL for a copy of the contract between the FL & OEG regarding the payment (not an unreasonable request you would think by ACL as they are supposed to be the recipient) only for the FL to tell them point blank NO?

 

[stupot07]

once again, SISU have been using this confrontational approch for the last year & half. Good on ACL, play them at their own game.

Don't we teach our kids that 2 wrongs don't make a right?


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[Jack Griffin]

Points can be docked until a few weeks before the end of the season so while I hope we don't get a further deduction I don't think we can conclude from the fact it hasn't happened yet that it won't happen.

Points can be deducted at any time.. even at the end of the season, didn't Middlesbrough get an in season deduction (under Robson) for not fulfilling a fixture 15-20yrs ago?

I wouldn't be surprised if SISU managed to insert some weasel words into a clause in their agreement with the FL & are currently exploiting the loophole.
This crap about 2 modalities that ML came up with is the thing I reckons.

“There are two modalities of timing, one was the end of May. The other was at the end of the liquidation process. The long and the short of it is, if we make an agreement with the Football League, we will honour it.”

 

[Snozz_is_god]

This is what really fucks me off, that for some reason I'm not allowed to have a go at both, it has to be one or the other.

How about, in this instance, in my view ACL are harming the return of our club, so ACL should be pulled up on it?!?

But in this instance you were having a go at ACL only, I was merely suggesting that it is exactly what SISU have been doing for over a year and a half.

So one and a half years of SISU rubbish/spin/lies/fantasy vs one statement by ACL in about 9 months.