Council could vote on Ricoh takeover as early as Tuesday (6 Viewers)

[stupot07]

And of course under the original deal the club would have got half of the rent back as we owned half of the management company. This argument isn't relevant to this thread though is it.

It was slightly relevant, as someone said that the current 2-4 year deal is for 28 matchday day use only to which I replied that was pretty much what were paying £1.3m a year for.

And of course it's relevant to the thread.


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[chiefdave]

For the nth time, don't expect anything definite to happen till the JR mess is resolved. With luck that will be over by the end of the month..

What would happen if any sale involved paying off the loan? The court case could still proceed but as most people seem to think the most severe punishment would be loan repayment wouldn't it then be pretty pointless.

 

[oldfiver]

SISU get off your arse and drop the legal action and match the bid.

You are to blame for not taking up the options in your greedy push to get it on the cheap.
Not for the club but for your own financial gain.

However I see safeguards for the club in this bid and in my dreams it shows Sisu disappearing back to the City of London.

But what is the bid??????

 

[Jack Griffin]

What would happen if any sale involved paying off the loan? The court case could still proceed but as most people seem to think the most severe punishment would be loan repayment wouldn't it then be pretty pointless.

Well they might think that, but I sniff an attempt to claim punitive damages (from someone) in the unlikely event the case is won by ARVO/SISU.

 

[spider_ricoh]

Spider Ricoh

Are you an ACL plant or plank?

What was the Ricoh as a stadium built around ( um the football pitch is a clue here ) and for who as the main tenant to use ( another clue the city of coventry)........................

Well we didn't pay for it, it's not ours, so we have no rights or claims over it

 

[spider_ricoh]

So your main objective is to get SISU to leave. But you then say



but



and



To sum up you want SISU to go, say if SISU owned the ground and the club they would sell both but they should pay as high a price as possible and under no circumstances should they be sold the ground. That all seems to make sense :facepalm:

Why is it faceplam? You've summarised it perfectly.

 

[oldfiver]

What would happen if any sale involved paying off the loan? The court case could still proceed but as most people seem to think the most severe punishment would be loan repayment wouldn't it then be pretty pointless.

Martin Reeves and his team (allegedly) have bought enough support to push it through

The panic seems pretty clear it is to do with the JR and the potential enforcement in repaying the loan - otherwise what is the rush??

From a business point of view - SISU should sit tight. If WASPS get the deal they still have 4 years and it may be the new owners can strike a long term deal with SISU. If WASPS cannot fund it then CCC have no other bidders. I would not enter teh bidding ring yet especially as no one is saying what the deal is

 

[oldfiver]

Three Law Lord Judges are a different force to those who have looked at the case so far

 

[Jack Griffin]

Three Law Lord Judges are a different force to those who have looked at the case so far

What an inane comment.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Martin Reeves and his team (allegedly) have bought enough support to push it through

The panic seems pretty clear it is to do with the JR and the potential enforcement in repaying the loan - otherwise what is the rush??

From a business point of view - SISU should sit tight. If WASPS get the deal they still have 4 years and it may be the new owners can strike a long term deal with SISU. If WASPS cannot fund it then CCC have no other bidders. I would not enter teh bidding ring yet especially as no one is saying what the deal is

So basically, SISU are causing this, isn't that what you are saying.

 

[spider_ricoh]

Spider is like Derek Hatton.

Take that back! The Brighton dude is an acquaintance and occasional drinking buddy of mine though

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Why is it faceplam? You've summarised it perfectly.

So you've acknowledged that SISU will sell the club if they get hold of the Ricoh which is what we want them all to do (the sell up part), yet you don't want them to get hold of the Ricoh.

:thinking about:

 

[fernandopartridge]

For the nth time, don't expect anything definite to happen till the JR mess is resolved. With luck that will be over by the end of the month..



£10M council grant, I do not think there is any expectation of repayment, like the £10M grans from AWM & another development fund.
£21M loan to make up shortfall in Arena build costs, reduced now to £14.4M(ish).. this is all on ACL, what stupot says is disingenuous, this is still effectively being paid back.

The funny thing being that the council is lending to its own private arm as 50% of ACL.

The council has its own debt to repay doesn't it? The prudential borrowing incurs interest.

 

[oldfiver]

What an inane comment.

Why is it ? Statement of fact

 

[fernandopartridge]

What an inane comment.

Are they not?

 

[duffer]

£21m which was paid back by ACL when they took the £21m and paid the 50 year lease up front.


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Which then went on to make up ACL's humping great mortgage which even SISU accepted was the main driver of the rent.

Regardless, there was still scope for a greatly reduced deal £400k, and possibly even £150k which was turned down. Please, let's not do this again.

The one thing that is absolutely clear here, if SISU had either negotiated for a share of ACL, or accepted one of the later reduced rent deals, then we wouldn't be here. Breaking the lease and moving to Nothampton is exactly what's opened up the door to Wasps.

Even now, if SISU came out and said they'd like to talk about the same kind of deal that Wasps are proposing, then I suspect the Council would find it hard to push through the Wasps deal. But they won't.

So the only reason I can see to stand against this is the damage done to the other third parties, Wasps' Fans and Coventry RFC. I can't support the Council deliberately injuring either of those groups, but as far as their obligation to the club goes, without the club showing some interest in buying into ACL what can CCC do?

 

[oldfiver]

So basically, SISU are causing this, isn't that what you are saying.

I have not said that

I have put forward a suggestion as to why the Council are in a rush. I do not see any other reason - do you?

 

[fernandopartridge]

So basically, SISU are causing this, isn't that what you are saying.

If the council lose the JR it's because they've broken the state aid rules. THEY have. Not SISU.

 

[oldfiver]

Which then went on to make up ACL's humping great mortgage which even SISU accepted was the main driver of the rent.

Regardless, there was still scope for a greatly reduced deal £400k, and possibly even £150k which was turned down. Please, let's not do this again.



The one thing that is absolutely clear here, if SISU had either negotiated for a share of ACL, or accepted one of the later reduced rent deals, then we wouldn't be here. Breaking the lease and moving to Nothampton is exactly what's opened up the door to Wasps.

Even now, if SISU came out and said they'd like to talk about the same kind of deal that Wasps are proposing, then I suspect the Council would find it hard to push through the Wasps deal. But they won't.

So the only reason I can see to stand against this is the damage done to the other third parties, Wasps' Fans and Coventry RFC. I can't support the Council deliberately injuring either of those groups, but as far as their obligation to the club goes, without the club showing some interest in buying into ACL what can CCC do?

The Council could actually come out and say we are prepared to sell to CCFC and the base line figure per our valuations is £x

 

[duffer]

The Council could actually come out and say we are prepared to sell to CCFC and the base line figure per our valuations is £x

But CCFC, or at least SISU, are still standing by the line that they're building elsewhere. In the meantime, they're persisting with the legal appeal. I would say that to most people that shuts down the possiblity of doing a deal, or at the least the obligation to offer one. You're supporting SISU in that approach, I take it?

 

[oldfiver]

Do you think the Council will get to find out who the finaciers are for the consortium or is it a funny handshake and rolled up trouser leg brigade again

At this level they should alrerady have proof of funding

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

The Council could actually come out and say we are prepared to sell to CCFC and the base line figure per our valuations is £x

It's obviously for sale. The Wasps negotiations haven't been in secret, have they? If SISU want to be involved, then they need to engage.

But all they're doing is talking about building their own place. Given this is their stated policy - and has been for some time - how else do people expect ACL to behave when a potential purchaser comes along?

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-chief-executive-tim-7357403

If you want to get angry with someone - and I don't just mean you - do so at Fisher. He's CEO and perpetuating the 'new stadium' mantra, and in so doing, leaving ACL, as a private limited business and with directors who hold a legal responsibility to that business - with no choice other than to engage with reputable suitors

 

[Chipfat]

If Sisu spent more time trying to strike a deal to buy the Ricoh instead of Court action against the owners to get a cheap deal then they might be further down the line in a purchase.... They are still the worst owners we have ever had and the CCC are always going to be the worst people in control of the borough, its the way it is and the way it will be no matter outcome..

Who is to blame all have to take a share but while others parties are interested in the Ricoh, Sisu prepare for court in the hope they win!!!!!!!!!! that for me says it all,,,, SISU are always the victim never the root cause TF, JS along with the new face SW are very harmful as they hold the key to the clubs destiny, which is a scary thought....

 

[oldskyblue58]

Everyone seems to get the impression that this detailed interest from Wasps is being progressed as some knee jerk reaction to rush it through. I am not so sure it is, I think it will turn out that detailed talks have been going on for a number of months and prior to the JR result. For instance it takes time to put an investment prospectus together and that is subject to due diligence and that only happens once heads of agreement have been agreed and that only happens after detailed talks and scrutiny by the various lawyers etc. That all takes a lot of time especially given the history of the site

The points of law and the facts of the JR remain the same and few cases actually get reversed on appeal especially not after such a damning judgement in the first place. What odds three law lords over turning one of their esteemed colleagues judgements (especially one very highly regarded in the legal profession). Could he have got it so wrong after such a detailed summing up and reasoning?

the Consortiums own due diligence would have had to consider the JR because the loan is central to the ACL balance sheet including getting their own legal opinion. It seems they are willing to press forward with it ........ what does that tell us. Didn't someone say they would come in ready for next season ..... that doesn't seem a great rush.

Finally we do not actually know what next weeks vote is on ...... a sale, permission to look at sale, a rejection of the sale etc

 

[spider_ricoh]

Un-fucking-believable....

I despair sometimes.....I really do.

you cite City's greatest hero in your profile name and yet support the entity who have done the greatest harm to CCFC to own the Ricoh, which would be an absolute nightmare. Un-fucking-believable...hyprocite

 

[fernandopartridge]

At this level they should alrerady have proof of funding

This is the council that demolished the Smithfield Hotel 12 years ago based on promises from developers.

 

[oldfiver]

But CCFC, or at least SISU, are still standing by the line that they're building elsewhere. In the meantime, they're persisting with the legal appeal. I would say that to most people that shuts down the possiblity of doing a deal, or at the least the obligation to offer one. You're supporting SISU in that approach, I take it?

I did say as a business they are waiting to see the outcome of WASPs approach = even if WASPs offer is accepted they could still top it. Then what would happen?

I assume they feel the JR is still due in their favour - if CCC are as equally confident why should they worry? It is a side issue and a red herring in my view.

A point still not clear is what happens to the £14m loan if WASPs buy 90% of ACL. Because it will still be there - no one will buy ACL while the JR is determining the position of the loan - UNLESS the deal is the loan is cleared or replaced before the JR

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Everyone seems to get the impression that this detailed interest from Wasps is being progressed as some knee jerk reaction to rush it through. I am not so sure it is, I think it will turn out that detailed talks have been going on for a number of months and prior to the JR result. For instance it takes time to put an investment prospectus together and that is subject to due diligence and that only happens once heads of agreement have been agreed and that only happens after detailed talks and scrutiny by the various lawyers etc. That all takes a lot of time especially given the history of the site

The points of law and the facts of the JR remain the same and few cases actually get reversed on appeal especially not after such a damning judgement in the first place. What odds three law lords over turning one of their esteemed colleagues judgements (especially one very highly regarded in the legal profession). Could he have got it so wrong after such a detailed summing up and reasoning?

the Consortiums own due diligence would have had to consider the JR because the loan is central to the ACL balance sheet including getting their own legal opinion. It seems they are willing to press forward with it ........ what does that tell us. Didn't someone say they would come in ready for next season ..... that doesn't seem a great rush.

Finally we do not actually know what next weeks vote is on ...... a sale, permission to look at sale, a rejection of the sale etc

I discussed it with a Wasps player - that's no secret - on May 3rd. It wasn't new, at least within the Wasps camp, back then

 

[chiefdave]

The Council could actually come out and say we are prepared to sell to CCFC and the base line figure per our valuations is £x

They have always said they will consider any serious offer, never have I heard it said that excludes CCFC or for that matter SISU. They don't need to put a valuation on it for SISU to bid. The simple fact is despite all their bluster SISU have never tabled an offer to buy either the freehold or leasehold.

 

[oldfiver]

This is the council that demolished the Smithfield Hotel 12 years ago based on promises from developers.

And agreed to the sale of Highfield Road and bypassed all the covenants

 

[bezzer]

you cite City's greatest hero in your profile name and yet support the entity who have done the greatest harm to CCFC to own the Ricoh, which would be an absolute nightmare. Un-fucking-believable...hyprocite

Hello Mr Pot, let me introduce you to Mr Kettle.

 

[oldfiver]

If Sisu spent more time trying to strike a deal to buy the Ricoh instead of Court action against the owners to get a cheap deal then they might be further down the line in a purchase.... They are still the worst owners we have ever had and the CCC are always going to be the worst people in control of the borough, its the way it is and the way it will be no matter outcome..

Who is to blame all have to take a share but while others parties are interested in the Ricoh, Sisu prepare for court in the hope they win!!!!!!!!!! that for me says it all,,,, SISU are always the victim never the root cause TF, JS along with the new face SW are very harmful as they hold the key to the clubs destiny, which is a scary thought....

They are by no way the worst owners in my time

You say "other parties" - are there more?

You say a cheap deal - it is an investment property the value of which can be calculated. It is only worth more than that if you have a specific purpose which will enhance its value. If it is a "cheap deal " the council can sell to some one else - it does not mean any one else will pay it

 

[oldfiver]

you cite City's greatest hero in your profile name and yet support the entity who have done the greatest harm to CCFC to own the Ricoh, which would be an absolute nightmare. Un-fucking-believable...hyprocite

Excuse me but did not the previous owners take the Club to the point of liquidation ??

 

[stupot07]

Which then went on to make up ACL's humping great mortgage which even SISU accepted was the main driver of the rent.

Regardless, there was still scope for a greatly reduced deal £400k, and possibly even £150k which was turned down. Please, let's not do this again.

The one thing that is absolutely clear here, if SISU had either negotiated for a share of ACL, or accepted one of the later reduced rent deals, then we wouldn't be here. Breaking the lease and moving to Nothampton is exactly what's opened up the door to Wasps.

Even now, if SISU came out and said they'd like to talk about the same kind of deal that Wasps are proposing, then I suspect the Council would find it hard to push through the Wasps deal. But they won't.

So the only reason I can see to stand against this is the damage done to the other third parties, Wasps' Fans and Coventry RFC. I can't support the Council deliberately injuring either of those groups, but as far as their obligation to the club goes, without the club showing some interest in buying into ACL what can CCC do?

Aren't you forgetting the other third party that damage will be done to you - us the ccfc fans?


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[oldfiver]

Aren't you forgetting the other third party that damage will be done to you - us the ccfc fans?


Never stop a mindless rant with facts