skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Very good point MC. Expect an insult from Grendull some time soon as he won't have a counter argument for that one.
More Court Action (21 Viewers)
- Thread starter Grendel
- Start date
Very good point MC. Expect an insult from Grendull some time soon as he won't have a counter argument for that one.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No its not I'm afraid - the determining factor is the valuation and sale price. I'm sure if the council received more there would be an issue but they have not. It's an equal split.
If your view was true and such investment failed to occur then there would be potential issues - however it is not.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but SISU is a hedge fund and/ or a private equity fund with a portfolio of companies. Otium ( CCFC ) has been particularly unsuccessful and has swallowed a lot of investor's money. It has created negative publicity for SISU Capital at a national level and annoyed the customer base, many of whom, myself included, prefer achieving sporting success to providing a return on investment to tax exiles ( or on tax exile money ). Amazingly enough some people still have a soft spot for them and would have preferred Higgs to have sold at a knock down price to SISU, than to a consortium that already owns a relatively successful sports team. No- one knows what the future will bring, but we have certainly experienced a disappointing past under SISU and their promised future of the P.iT.S. Stadium, doesn't inspire hope for a bright future.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
So now we can add Higgs policy to your ever growing list of expertise.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I love it when you are proved wrong you make some silly irrelevant statement.
Collectively the two owners agreed to sell to one party and that's it . If you deny that there is zero point in continuing this discussion.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Only agreed at this moment in time as no other bids have been received as far as we know. Didn't LR tweet yesterday that PA has received 3 different bids for the first refusal option that Ltd has? Surely this means that at least 2 other parties are interested in bidding for the Higgs share assuming one of those bids is wasps and if not 3 other parties? Shouldn't we as fans be more concerned that one of these parties is the club and not egging sisu on with more court action. Seeing as that corse of action is yet to benefit the club?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I'm not egging anyone on I'm saying the deal is constructed on the basis that the deal is for wasps and wasps only. It was admitted as such first thing today by the person responsible for selling the shares. Byng bong bids on anything he can't have.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
Grendel I accept Wasps have set up a deal to buy shares off ACL and Higgs to obtain 100 per cent.
But what is to stop another arm of SISU buying the defunct company and gaining the right to buy. Or any company moving in to gain the right to buy. The liquidation process has took forever and must be sitting as a pretty package on his desk ready to go. Could a deal be rushed through in 30 days?
But what is to stop another arm of SISU buying the defunct company and gaining the right to buy. Or any company moving in to gain the right to buy. The liquidation process has took forever and must be sitting as a pretty package on his desk ready to go. Could a deal be rushed through in 30 days?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
On the basis that SISU's chosen method of problem solving is going to court I would think they are trying to find ways to take that course...... so I tend to agree with Grendel more legal cases are a distinct possibility.
This process has been set up by CCC/Charity/Wasps over many months knowing the pitfalls that could arise and the various options that SISU might have. As the dispute has gone on from 2012 (not saying Wasps involved in at the start of this btw) it has been a matter of closing doors and moving to the next "room" and closing some more - primarily in the hope they would commit CCFC to the Ricoh but more recently primarily to ensure the well being of the stadium. Not sure I see many more doors open for SISU. The intention now is clearly that Wasps own 100% even if that has not been said...... the process will have been set up to achieve that with the least amount of problems and expense.
That doesn't stop CCFC playing there or even getting a better deal on income but it wont include ownership. Ownership was key to SISU's investment. Could have been so different but ..............
This process has been set up by CCC/Charity/Wasps over many months knowing the pitfalls that could arise and the various options that SISU might have. As the dispute has gone on from 2012 (not saying Wasps involved in at the start of this btw) it has been a matter of closing doors and moving to the next "room" and closing some more - primarily in the hope they would commit CCFC to the Ricoh but more recently primarily to ensure the well being of the stadium. Not sure I see many more doors open for SISU. The intention now is clearly that Wasps own 100% even if that has not been said...... the process will have been set up to achieve that with the least amount of problems and expense.
That doesn't stop CCFC playing there or even getting a better deal on income but it wont include ownership. Ownership was key to SISU's investment. Could have been so different but ..............
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olderskyblue
Well-Known Member
having just read this thread, would the fact that Ltd had not been liquidated as yet mean that this was always SISU's plan in the event of the sale of the councils 50% to someone else? If so, then I think OSB and Grendel are right. Lots more court cases in the pipeline, and maybe SISU are already well prepared for this....
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
at a guess SISU will probably try to argue that the bidding process is artificial that a deal has been done and that their rights as owners of CCFC Ltd through SBS&L have been prejudiced
If the terms of the option are simply to inform CCFC Ltd of any verifiable bid received by AEHC then the Charity can say it has done that. The grey area is the length of discussions before informing CCFC Ltd and at what point they a duty to notify.
That court action might hold up a deal but not sure it is going to stop it
Considering how AEHC and CCC were supposed to be the amateurs out of their depth in this I find it surprising how many times SISU etc.,despite their high paid advisors and apparent experience, are wrong footed and have doors closed on them. Doesn't fill me with confidence about SISU's future decision making for CCFC that's for sure.
If the terms of the option are simply to inform CCFC Ltd of any verifiable bid received by AEHC then the Charity can say it has done that. The grey area is the length of discussions before informing CCFC Ltd and at what point they a duty to notify.
That court action might hold up a deal but not sure it is going to stop it
Considering how AEHC and CCC were supposed to be the amateurs out of their depth in this I find it surprising how many times SISU etc.,despite their high paid advisors and apparent experience, are wrong footed and have doors closed on them. Doesn't fill me with confidence about SISU's future decision making for CCFC that's for sure.
The legal situation seems to be sufficiently vague to prevent the CCC Purchasing the Higgs prior to passing over to Wasps as we were told.
Factor in the drop of around £10M on the sale price ,then either Wasps are prepared to
a) take advantage of this weakness .
b) have funds for battle with the Litigious SISU.
c) are prepared to satisfy all of the requirements of doing this through mr Appleton.
Factor in the drop of around £10M on the sale price ,then either Wasps are prepared to
a) take advantage of this weakness .
b) have funds for battle with the Litigious SISU.
c) are prepared to satisfy all of the requirements of doing this through mr Appleton.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
The war paint and tinsel is looking a little battle scarred and thread bare these days.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Correct. The club should of course now start working on building relations with the new owners of the stadium and make it work.
One thing I would say is that PWKH came across pretty well on the radio. He sounded relieved to me its all over - I suspect that the charity would have preferred a different outcome but realistically given the animosity that exists across all sides that was never going to happen.
It's annoying mainly because the overall deal price now is less than that was being sought for the charity share alone and for an almost infinite lease period. If that deal was available at the beginning who knows what might have happened.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
Ask Joy she can always consult with her take over panel?
It could be that Nick, and with Sisu having no plans for a long term future at the Ricoh anyway, then it was just a waste of ink. Still, it raised our hopes for few hours didn't it.
Why is this shit getting printed in the news paper then? IF it is pretty much for SISU to get it anyway, why are the council giving it the press chatter? Makes you wonder how they have used the press in the past doesn't it?
Not sure about that Nick (and watch those libel laws
). I suppose it had to be mentioned otherwise we would be asking Simon Gilbert why he isn't doing his job (not starting anything there, so don't worry!). Maybe could have dug around a bit to give some clarity (asked OSB perhaps). Higgs weren't didn't seemed to concerned to clarify by the way. Also TF was quite clear on his position on CWR yesterday morning - and took his dog for a walk. No-one cares 'cept us, the fans -and it doesn't matter what we think
Nick
Administrator
Ah, it is just the same as some bloke coming up to me in the street and saying I can take my daughter to disney world, go on a yacht, meet One Direction (while she is stood there) but it will actually cost me £20 million so it isn't actually going to happen. I would think he was a prick for getting her hopes up knowing full well it wouldn't be able to happen even if I wanted it to.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Not sure about that Nick (and watch those libel laws
No-one cares 'cept us, the fans -and it doesn't matter what we think
The journalist should have investigated the legitimacy of the council statement and should have confirmed the construct of the deal was for 100% ownership.
People should question why he didn't and should question what Reid would have said and, most significantly, would it have been printed.
I think that's what I said, but in slighlthy more light hearted way! Edit: apart from the Reid bit - I am trying to have a non - angry day today
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
Hobo
Well-Known Member
What if he was legally obliged to offer the trip to your daughter? As for the media coverage, one minute it is wrong for private meetings, next it is wrong for details to be published because it gets people's hopes up?
Is it getting people's hopes up Nick or is it people jumping to their own conclusions. Perhaps we owe it to our selves to research things a bit better. It's a bit like the JR, people deciding the JR would bring loads of answers when they didn't understand what the JR would be about.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It was specifically designed to create an impression that suited a certain party.
Nick
Administrator
So surely when it was reported on it should have pointed out that although "x" is being said, it isn't as simple as this because of these terms.
Of course I want everything to be out in the open, but not only choice parts of it and then have to come on here to have other people actually translate the news into what it actually means rather than what is printed.
Imagine if there wasn't a site like this and it was the olden days, how would anybody know that it is pretty much impossible for SISU to do anything? They have only read in the paper they got from the bloke in town shouting weird shit that the council / higgs etc are saying come and buy it. How would they know any different?
Hobo
Well-Known Member
Most things in the press are. Don't car manufacturers manipulate performance and reliability figures for favourable reviews?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So we agree. The council evening telegraph is riddled with bias - fair enough
Hobo
Well-Known Member
Yes I do agree, along with SISU and Wasps....no organisation tells the truth. The truth is partly perception anyway.
Just like you know you slant things to suit your posts.